Perennials Suck!

That's my conclusion after spending all day cleaning up all their carcasses while looking at my small shrubs, that required no work, and will look great......which leads me to the real point of this thread. I want more small shrubs! Here's what I have currently:

Viburnum opulus 'Bulliton'
V. opulus 'Nana'
V. opulus 'Temple Jewel'
V. dentatum 'Little Joe','Raspberry Tart'
V. farreri 'Nana'
V. dilatatum 'Catskill'
V. carlesii 'Compactum'
Diervilla 'Summer Stars'(I think)
Daphne 'Carol Mackie', 'Summer Ice', and 'Silveredge'
A few small roses
Hypericum frondosum 'Sunburst'
Various Azaleas
Hydrangea quercifolia 'PeeWee' and 'Sikes Dwarf'
Leptodermis
Itea 'Henry's Garnet' 'Merlot' and 'Little Henry'
Clethra 'Sixteen Candles' and 'Sweet Suzanne'
Comptonia peregrina
Fothergilla gardenii
Gro-low Sumac
Physocarpus 'Dart's Gold' and 'Summer Wine'
A few small conifers
Various Tree peonies
Dirca palustris
Berberis 'Concord'(no flowers, no fruit, yet)
Pieris 'Cavatine'
Ceanothus americanus
Boxwood
Exochorda 'The Bride'(although that gets big)
Ribes (in the woods)
Ginkgo 'Spring Grove'
Taxodium 'Peve Minaret'
Symphoricarpos
Calycanthus 'Athens' and 'Michael Lindsey'(small??? Looks like no)
Ilex vert. 'Red Sprite'


So what else is there out there? I am not quite a dwarf conifer guy--I know that they could fill in a lot of space, but I have yet to catch that bug.



This message was edited Mar 12, 2006 12:09 AM

This message was edited Mar 12, 2006 12:10 AM

These all stay pretty small (short) for me:

Camellia sasanqua ‘Snow Flurry’
Hypericum androsaemum ‘Albany Purple’
Weigela florida ‘Midnight Wine’
Wiegela florida ‘Dark Horse’
Pieris japonica ‘Prelude’
Nandina domestica ‘Firepower’
Symphoricarpos x chenaultii ‘Hancock’ (short, but spreading, and not dense enough to keep weeds out)
Symphoricarpos x doorenbosii ‘Magic Berry’

SB

Such an outburst, Kevin! I'm blushing. I think you need to try a few of the ala carte barberries, although those that shake out at zone 5 hardy are a comparatively small few. Forest Farm lists many interesting species. Usually you get some good floral interest, fruit, and excellent fall color.

Clethra barbinervis and C. acuminata are both cool. Hardy? Heptacodium miconioides.

Ilex verticilata and I. decidua. Callicarpa (might be a die-back shrub for you. Just as well, most people cut it back anyway.)

Scott

I have 3 small euonynomice(plural) that I rarely prune; Sarcoxie, Emerald and Gold and Sunpot - all evergreen of course.

I'd steer clear of Barberry anything around here. Have you ever considered Ceanothus americanus? That is generally only around 3' tall. And what about good old Physocarpus? That is generally only around 6-8' or so.

Ya missed the Physo's he listed, EQ. But I don't see an oppulifolius 'Nana'. Dr. Pellet should have a new cultivar released soon that is a nicer cross of Monlo and one of the yellow cultivars. No boxwoods on the list, although I have to say they are uninteresting. Maybe some pearl bush(Exochorda) or Calycanthus floridulus (or fertilis). Maybe you could even try some of the sino crosses down there. To bad you have such a problem with Euonymice(I love that name!). E. verrucosus grows really slowly up here and I have never seen it bloom. If you've never seen it, then you've never seen an E like it. There really are some nice species, and they are quite behaved up here. What about Dirca palustris and American bladderwort(well I guess that one gets a little big). Ribes odorata? The clove scented flowers are heavenly, at least to me. Dwarf gingko. Forsythia mandshurica stays small and tidy. With double size flowers and blooms 2 weeks earlier. Our Arb has some, 20+ years old still only 6.5 feet.

Rick

I have to amend my list, as I do have:

Dirca palustris
Berberis 'Concord'(no flowers, no fruit, yet)
Pieris 'Cavatine'
Ceanothus americanus
Boxwood
Exochorda 'The Bride'(although that gets big)
Ribes (in the woods)
Ginkgo 'Spring Grove'
Taxodium 'Peve Minaret'
Symphoricarpos
Calycanthus 'Athens' and 'Michael Lindsey'(small??? Looks like no)
Ilex vert. 'Red Sprite'

Wiegala might be something to try--I had forgotten about the dark leaved cultivars. Euonymous was a mess back at my old place, with galls and whatnot. That Forsythia sounds cool Rick. I will have to look that up. The Sinocalycanthus cross that I have(Hartlage Wine) is not going to be even close to small. 'Athens' seems to be a smaller plant than 'Michael Lindsey'.

This message was edited Mar 12, 2006 12:10 AM

You've mentioned some not so small plants above so what about Celtis laevigata or C. tenuifolia (I think Guy has some extra tenuifolia). Then there's Cephalanthus occidentalis or Elaeagnus commutata which might be nice worked in around your pond.

Did I miss Corylus americana on your list somewhere?

Here's a few others-
Mahonia aquifolium (not an Asian Barberry)
Ribes cynosbati (awesome leaves)
Potentilia fruticosa
Itea virginica
Lonicera dioica
Arceuthobium pusillum
Ledum groenlandicum

I think I have another one on this list, although I think that maybe if you grow some morning glories, nicotiana and amaranthus (annuals) you might appreciate your perennial cleanup.

I have Kerria japonica 'golden guinnea' - yellow flowers in full shade, foliage is rough though

Cewin:

I can't imagine torturing more small shrubs up there in the frozen wasteland of northern IL, but here's a small contingent that don't know what they're in for:

Aronia melanocarpa Iroquois Beauty™
Caryopteris many clones
Cornus (a whole contingent of species/clones here)
Forsythia lotsa little ones
Hamamelis virginiana 'Little Susie'
Hydrangea arborescens all of them
Hydrangea macrophylla all of them
Hypericum all of them
Lagerstroemia 'Chickasaw' and 'Pocomoke'
Philadelphus x 'Miniature Snowflake' or similar
Rhododendron cold hardy lepidote hybrids
Rhus aromatica 'Gro-Lo'
Viburnum x 'Chesapeake'
Viburnum x 'Conoy'
Viburnum x 'Eskimo'
Viburnum dentatum Blue Blaze™
Viburnum plicatum var. tom. Newport™
Weigela, especially the dance series including 'Tango', 'Samba', 'Rumba', 'Polka', 'Minuet'

I'm curious as to the definition of "small shrub" emanating from just north of the Ohio River, in greater Porkopolis. Heptacodium?

And no comment necessary on the Celtis...

Kevin,
Is Ginkgo 'Spring Grove' a small growing shrub for you? If so, what is the growth rate per year?

Also, is your Dirca palustris growing in sun or shade? I have seen pictures of this plant growing in both sun and shade and I think the plant growing in full sun was much more appealing, at least to me. Nice rounded shape and great fall color. This is a fairly rare plant in commerce; you're lucky to have found one.
Mike

frozen wasteland of northern Illinois???

Hey, what's wrong with the Celtis?

I recently ordered Hamamelis virginiana and Rhus aromatica as well as about 20 Viburnum to include 'Chicago Lustre'.

Tell me about your Taxodium 'Peve Minaret'. I'm considering one but they are expensive. Do you like it? How high has it grown?

Lavandula angustifolia cultivars 'Hidcote', 'Czech', 'Munstead', 'Jean Davis'.

You can chop way low to the ground each year with Hibiscus syriacus cultivars and they'll develop larger blooms and more of them.

Dwarf Blueberries - fall color - stem winter interest - color and food.

Acer circinatum 'Little Gem'

Daphne ‘Summer Ice’

Ilex x meserveae ‘Honey Maid’

Some conifers:
Larix gmelinii ‘Romberg Park’
Picea glauca ‘Arneson’s Blue Variegated’
Pinus contorta var. latifolia 'Chief Joseph'
Pinus mugo 'Fruhling's Gold'
Pinus mugo 'Winter Sonne'
Pinus mugo 'Fastigiata Aurea'
Cham pisifera `Snow' - Part Sun Only
Tsuga canadensis 'Gentsch White' - (you can shear Hemlocks as well)
Pinus strobus ‘Merrimack’
Chamaecyparis pisifera `Compacta Variegata'
Cham pisifera `Gold Dust'
Picea abies ‘Acrocona Pusch’ - Bright Red Cones in Spring
Pinus parviflora 'Tanima No Yuki' aka 'Tani Mono Uki' - Bright Pink Cones in Spring.

That's "vasteland", Eqvilibrivm.

The Celtis mentioned are trees (albeit maybe slower growing), not shrubs, unless you are into coppicing from whence any tree could then be recommended.

Gotta get my balmy Ohio River walley comments in.

Jovrs trvlj,

Wibvrnvm Wallej

And his Ginkgo 'Spring Grove' and Taxodium 'Peve Minaret' are low growing ground huggers? Aren't both of those going to be single stem small trees in the 10' - 12' range. So I just slipped in with a Hackberry. I love Hackberries. Both Celtis laevigata and C. tenuifolia are classified as shrubs for all practical purposes (albeit tall shrubs) and both of them are going to end up on our threatened and endangered list here sooner or later so what better place for them than on his property behind all that nice Thumper and Bambi exclusion fencing.

Equil: Those Celtis could go out in the wild and wooly woods--I will ask Guy. Cephalanthus already around the pond, where no care needed. Corylus all over the place too in the hinterlands(not small though--along the Great Western Trail near me is a 20x20 monster). Mahonia I tried and didnt like. Potentilla--bleck! I will look up the others.

Al--I had Kerria at my old house and it looks kinda weedy, and oh the suckers! That's one invasive unit.

VV--The Aronia is around the pond. Caryopteris dies back, which makes it perennial-ish, which is counterproductive(but I have them anyway). Cornus&Forsythia--I need some of the little ones. 'Little Susie' sounds interesting. Hydrangea arborescens and macrophylla--see Carypopteris. Yes, I need more Hypericum. Lagerstroemia--great white north spats upon weenie plants like that--not dieback, but die....period. A tiny mockorange would be good. Gro-low is here. Smaller rhodies here. 'Chesapeake' 'Conoy' and 'Eskimo' are here. I need 'Blue Blaze'. I have 'Newport'.(my list is a bit incomplete I guess!).

Mike--Spring Grove only been in the ground a year, but I don't think it grew at all! It leafed out beautifully, but if it grew, it was less than 1". Ask me again later about this year. I have three Dirca, all in the wet shady woods. I lucked out and got two 4', 9-year-old plants for $30 in a fall sale at a local nursery. I never thought to try one in sun. Maybe I will move the smaller one up near the house.

Chamthy--Just had 'Peve minaret' for a year. It's about 1" caliper at the base and maybe 3' high. I will be interested in how it grows as well. All in all though, it is essentially a tiny version of its Baldcypress brethren.

Dax--Thanks! I had forgotten about the dwarf Blueberries. I had them at my old house and they are a great small shrub, with delicious attributes. I will definitely add some here, and I think there are more and more of them coming out. Have you ever been up to visit Gene Coffman at Ridge Road Nursery Dax? He is just south of Dubuque, and one of the most delightful nurserymen you will ever visit. I think he is 85 this year, and he will be back from Arizona on March 29th. You should make the trip up to see him.

Remember Dirca don't like transport. Just be ready for the season of no-growth that will ensue.

Do you hate spireas? I know they are common, but still I love 'Goldflame'.

Atta Prairie Girl, I was wondering if it was just me. I also like the fact that I don't have to douse them in liquid fence. Ken

Hi Kevin,

Never heard of Ridge Road Nursery I don't believe. I see there's a Dave's Garden Event in May in Dubuque however but I'm not sure I'll go. That will be two days after I return from my scheduled trip to visit the US National Arboretum, plus my vehicle is getting old and breaks down all the time. I'll have to see.

So what's he selling that I might be interesed in? Iseli stock, or does he propagate at the nursery, or what??? I'm also a junkie for Deciduous Azaleas and Clematis.

Thanks,

Dax

Hi PrairieGirl,

I've always like 'Goldflame'...it's a real nice plant! I have (4) 'Mellow Yellow' Spireas surrounding a street sign but 'Goldflame has better color. 'Ogon' I believe is the correct name for 'Mellow Yellow' I read somewhere. Another crash for nomenclature!

Kevin,
Thanks. I'll ask again at the end of the season to see if 'Spring Grove' added any height/width this year.

Dax,
Here is a link to the plants available at Ridge Road Nursery.

http://www.ridgeroadplants.com/

I have wanted to make the trip to Ridge Road for a couple of years now, but something always seems to come up that ruins my plans.
Mike

Kevin, I have a few Celtis tenuifolia in quart pots set aside for the Illinois Native Plant Society plant sale this spring, but I can hold one back for you if you wish. Here's the catch: You and Evilibrium (and others?) gotta pay me a visit and pick it up! Let me know before late April.

Evil, the sugarberry (Celtis laevigata) is a large tree. I think you might have C. reticulata in mind as the other common North American native shrubby species.

By the way, for anyone accessible to central Illinois, the INPS sale is in Springfield at Washington Park Botanic Garden on Saturday 29 April from 9:00-2:00. You will see many things there, both native and not, that you can find nowhere else. All proceeds go to support a grant program for restoration and management of native ecosystems. Might make a great road trip for some of you! Get out the clunky old 1969 V-Dub van with the peace signs covering the rusty patches and bop on over here! Look for me in the woody plants section.

Guy S.

Must admit to not having read through the whole thread, but would note that trees are perennials too. ;o)

Al