Cattle Panel Hoophouse

OKay Jeanette,

Here are current photos. First a picture of the wire rope attached to the cattle panel

MollyD

Now a closeup of the way it's attached

MollyD

Here is the solar cover in place at the roof line

MollyD

And last the foil backed insulation on the north wall which I added last

MollyD

I noticed that since adding the solar cover and the insulation temperature swings are not as rapid. It's slower to loose heat and slower to gain it too. It's 34 outside and 57 in the GH right now. Small electric heater is running.
I have a Univent opener on order but have not found the right window yet so venting is not automatic at the moment.
Yesterday I bought a propane non vent heater but the installation looks a bit difficult and may require a plumber. I may take this one back and find another less challenging one.
I haven't installed any lights in there yet since I only work in the GH during the day. I can always use a flashlight to go in to turn something on or off for now. I will be adding them at a later date since our daylight hours will be very brief by the end of November.

MollyD

So Molly, btw this is looking so cool, how is the light going to get in with foil insulation covering everything up? I know!! You are going to grow Marijuana in there!!. LOL.It is so much work isn't it? But, you will get so much enjoyment out of it.

Got a question Molly, why couldn't you use bungi cords instead of the wire rope, and weave them in and out of the wires?

I think some times I forget to hit the send button because at least one of my messages didn't show up. Molly, I guess I asked you since it was the weekend couldn't Paul help you? This type of work is so much easier when you have more people helping you.

I have now read this entire thread-what a great job you guys are doing! So I was inspired to put a hoophouse over our woodpile. I used 5 panels -$30.00 each, ouch--and overlapped them 6". Was able to attach one to my barn, and is it sturdy enough for all 3 grandkids to sit on. I used 2x8x10' for the bottom, held in place with 18" cement stakes. On the inside I (sorry I say I, but as a c4 quadreplegic with no movement below my shoulders obviously I don't do the work myself. But it was my plan and I make a good "stupourvisor" if I do say so myself ;-).
So we put 2x4s at the top of the 2x8s--that really stiffened things up. We now have a tarp for winter coverage and in the Spring - maybe April here outside Reno at 5500' -will put up GH cover and maybe do strawbale stuff.This is a neat thread, thanks for inspiring us. Oh-it only took 3 hours from start to finish, including getting the cattle panels, 2 people. how cool is that? Joan

Hi Joan! Welcome to the greenhouse forum :) That is cool. We would like to see some pictures if you can get them!

Hi Joan! Welcome! Next year I'm planning to upgrade from the hoophouse to a twinwall GH. This hoophouse will be moved up by the barn to store hay for our horse which will free room in the barn for other stuff.
Wow your panels were very expensive! I paid $17.99 for each of mine here. No overlap either. I just butted them end to end and used cable ties to attach them to each other. So glad this thread has been helpful to you! I'll keep posting as the winter goes on so others will know how it works. I think the only limits I've found with this hoophouse is that it can't be more than 8 ft wide at the bottom or it looses structural integrity. Which means that when it get a heavy snow load you could find it dropping down if you make it too wide at the bottom. You can probably add wire rope to work as collar ties for added strength.
These things are great if you need storage for a car or garden tractors, etc.

Hi Jeanette,

Paul works just about everyday so his free days are few and far between. Much easier with two people but doable with one.
The foil back insulation only goes on the north wall since that wall provides the least amount of light to the GH.
Bungee cords would stretch too much. The wire rope doesn't.Also you wouldn't want the cords woven through because then you wouldn't have any way to slip in the insulation and the pool cover. All this stuff is sitting behind the wire rope.

MollyD

Molly,
A wood furnace seems so economical. I would love to get one for this house, but this house only cost us $14,000... I've never felt like putting much money into it, becuase it was so cheap! Time to buy a new house!

Jeanette,
You mentioned several times in the post planting tomatoes IN the straw bales. Did you add dirt to the bales for them to grow in, or carve little pots for them?

-Jessica

Boy, I should have gotten on here earlier today with all that needs to be said. First of all, it is so good to hear that you could use some of what we have done and reported Joan. I really am sorry your panels cost so much. They were anywhere from $14.95 to $17.95. But, oh well. I also butted them up against each other like Molly did. Overlapping will work. The original fellow that started this, seems so long ago I can't even remember his name, isn't that awful?, tried all different widths at the bottom and he determined that 8ft was the best. I guess that does not mean anything different will not work.

These things can be used for absolutely anything. I had my raised bed with my flowers in one end. The Daturas were branched out 2 feet above the top of the HH. The nasturtiums crawled up and they went on up the Daturas. Everyone loved them. I even had corn in buckets and the ears were really good. We are debating on whether or not to take the raised bed, cement blocks, out and store the 14ft boat in it for the winter.

Jessica, If you want to use the strawbale method for plants you really should go to the forum for them in the garden section. Kent, in Wake Forest, N.C., started this and tells you how to start the bales decomposing etc. Step by step. Very easy. Once I did that I just took a stiff kitchen spatula and pried a section apart in the straw and pushed the roots of the tomato plants down in the bale. Now these were tomato plants I had started from seed. So, you wouldn't want to try to shove very large plants into the bales. Then I used hemp twine to tie the tomatoes to the cattle panels overhead as they grew bigger. I don't know if you saw the pictures I posted or not. If not, let me know.

Jessica, if you only spent $14,000 for that house, and you didn't say how long ago, it seems to me, mind you I know nothing about it, that you might want to fix it up and rent it out when you decide to move. That way you could enjoy the fixing while you are there. Just a thought.

One other thing Jessica, the best parts about planting in the strawbales are, no weeds, and you don't have to get down on your hands and knees looking for the fruit. I also planted cucumbers on a cattle panel I had my DH build a framework for. Worked great. The cucumbers grew up instead of all over the ground. One of my dubious friends had to admit it worked after she spent the summer eating my cukes, so she brought me some seeds from some very small melons for next year. LOL

Jeanette

Jessica,

I have to agree with Jeanette about the house. It's value is determined by several things. A) how long you've owned it B) what are other houses in your neighborhood selling for and C) what you've done to improve it. It may be worth far more than you paid for it in the first place. Can't tell you exactly what improvements would add value since these differ by areas but look around you and see what is selling in your area.

MollyD

Molly and Jeanette,

Strawbale gardening... IN the bale? That is crazy! I learn something new every day. I looked in the gardening section of forums and didn't see a section on strawbale gardening. I'll google it and see what I come up with. Got any links? I saw the pictures you posted, but didn't see where the plants met the bale. That's great!

My house is a 600 square foot house in the city of Buffalo. Buffalo has some of the cheapest houses in America. My area is slightly ghetto. I just found out that our interesection is a "hotbed" of protitution.

Other houses in the area ARE selling for more, but only because they are 3 times as big. And those houses are only selling for 30-50k. My house is assessed at $19,000. I'd like to think that when we sell it, we could get over 20k, but that's optimistic.

I COULD rent it after we move out, but then we get to be landlords. This house came with tenants when we bought it. They were selling drugs, using half the house as a dumpster. It's sad, but many people in this area are into criminal activities. They stopped paying rent, and instead of evicting them, we decided it would be easier to bribe them to get out.

So yes, I could rent it out for $500 a month (what it was renting before), and make back the cost of the house in 26 months, but yeah... I'd prefer to avoid the hassle. I'll miss my little house though!

Ok, Jessica, (LOL, my dog's name, Jessica) I see you found the forum, thread, or whatever. Now if you have all winter you can go back to part 1 and read all about the fun of growing in strawbales.

Somehow, I do not think you want to either rent, or continue living in your house. Is there a way to move? I am sorry if I sound stuffy, but Jessica, I worry about you. Unless you are one of them I would think it could be pretty dangerous.

Have you talked to anyone about selling? Like a realtor? Do you know how much you would net? Would it be enough to buy something else? Do you have the means to make payments on something else?

Jessica, I am not being nosy and I don't want you to answer those questions for me. Those are questions I would think you need to decide for yourself or I would think they are questions that a realtor would ask.

Either way, you should consider moving. How long have you lived there anyway?

How big a lot do you have? Do you have room for a half a dozen strawbales? If so, and you are still there in the spring, I think you would enjoy that kind of gardening. After I got my vegetables, and tomatoes planted I took what flower seedlings I had left over and planted them in around the vegetables. Like Marigolds, Nasturtiums, etc.

Have fun reading that strawbale forum.

[HYPERLINK@davesgarden.com. This is part 1 Scoot. We are currently on part 5. Might be a good winter read for you. We had fun with it this summer.

Jeanette

I tried that and it didn't work for me. Look under the "Vegetable Gardening" forum and then to Strawbale gardening part 5 and it gives all of the links to the parts 1 thru 4 in the first post.

This message was edited Nov 7, 2006 4:24 PM

Jeanette,
Aw thanks for worrying about me! :-)
My mom does too. I plan on moving soon, within a year or two.
We've been living in this house for the last 5 years. In the last 5 years we've been saving TONS of money for the new house.
Problem is, we can't decide where we want to live. It changes every few weeks/months. One week it's move to the Buffalo suburbs (cheap houses, I have a good job, great support system... but crappy weather). Next month it's Canada (my political views jive with their system pretty well). Next month it's Jacksonville FL (great weather).
I'm not having kids for at least a year or two more. I actually feel rather safe here. We've got bars on every one of the windows (ghetto, I know - but I feel so safe). All of our windows are kept covered, and we keep a very low profile.
.......
The house costs too little for us to post with a realtor. Would have to pay a few thousands dollars to have it listed. My husband used to be a realtor though... I'm sure we'll find someone to buy it, when we're ready. For now we are enjoying the low cost of living here (no mortgage, tiny property taxes, very small utilities). It's possible we won't even have to get a mortgage for our next house.
--------
My backyard is 40 feet by 25 feet.... all of it concrete except for about 16x17 feet patch of soil, which is always full. I'm always looking for alternative ways to increase my planting space.

Jessica,

Are you near D'Youville College? If so that area will probably be going upscale in the next 10 years or so. If you could hang onto it eventually it might be worth far more than today.

Good luck with that.
I've been offline for a few days while my computer was being worked on. Seems I had picked up a virus that multiplied itself everytime I used any exe program. By Monday my browser closed down if I tried to access any page about anti virus info and I couldn't open spybot to clean the system out. Grrrr...$100. spent fixing this.

The GH is now holding some 150 plants, mostly seedlings. I've kept adding insulation each day. That part should be done by the end of this week, then I get to finish the solar cover on the east and south sides. I've moved three 55 gallon drums for passive heat in. Started filling them today. I have to go slow on this since we're on a well. Don't want to drain the well dry while I'm filling the drums! Will probably get this job done before Thanksgiving. Now I have to start making some type of shelving to get the plants off the floor area. At present they're all proped on pieces of scrap wood. Anyone have neat ideas (and cheap!) on how to make shelfs about 24" wide x 17' long? No legs needed since it'll rest on the drums.
I've got one small fan now running in there but will need two GH ones. Also the vent opener is here but still no window so I'm running back and forth everytime the alarm rings to open the door.

MollyD

When I was younger mom used to make book cases with wood boards and blocks. They were inexpensive and easy to move. I would think you could get 2X12's and use 2 of them to put on the drums. Of course they'd have to be cut down to the length you want but that wouldn't be too hard. And having the 2 boards put together to make a 24" wide shelf would leave a split in the middle that would allow for water to drain off the shelf also - so....no water standing on the shelf.

Thanks mmistyrose

Boy, Molly, I've been wracking my brain trying to think of something but I can't come up with any ideas that aren't expensive.

Mmistyrose I think we all did that, probably even I did when you were growing up, but I think lumber is much more expensive today than it was then. Even out here where I just finished logging, the lumber is super expensive.

I wonder, I am getting ready to have a deck rebuilt and I am going to use composite. That is the phony lumber. I don't know how it would compare in price to lumber. Especially in other areas. I haven't priced the lumber vs. the composite for my deck because I specifically want the composite. I think it will last longer. Maybe it is a lot more than lumber. don't know.

Good luck, keep us posted.

Molly I would think that you wouldn't want the boards on the drums, as this might prevent the plant seedlings from taking advantage of the warmth from the drums, and it would reduce air circulation and possibly promote disease. If you plants are in trays, rather than individual pots, wire fencing could work. Build a wooden frame which will sit on top of the drums, unroll the fencing, and staple the wire fencing to the frame...good air circulation and the heat from the drums won't be blocked by the wood shelving.

You could take 2 long ( 12') pieces of 1"x2" strips and put them across the drums, overlapping in the middle, and put on the sides of the tops of the drums, so that you would use a total of 4 pieces. The flats would rest on the wood, but be exposed to air circulation and the heat coming up from the drums. I do this on the bottom shelf in all the grhouses.

Tigerlily123 could you explain that further? MY plants are currently in small square pots sitting in flats but will be moving into one gallon nursery pots soon (by January).

SB I figure they would need to be elevated instead of sitting flat on the drums.
The only thing I thought of was buying some of those Closet Maid shelves that are plastic coated and laying them across the top of the drums. That could get pricey so I wondered if there was a cheaper alternative out there that I hadn't considered.

Jeanette I wouldn't use composite wood in a GH. It would absorb too much moisture and warp easily. Any wood in the GH would either have to be painted or treated. Plywood might work if it were thick enough.

Thanks for all the great ideas folks!

MollyD

I wondered if my explanation would result in confusion! lol Its so much easier to draw a picture than explain in words...

I figure that you have 3 drums in a straight line. Take one wood strip ( could be any size slender piece -2x2, or 2x4, 1x2 was the cheapest-and all that you really need) and lay the strip across 2 of the drums, on top, but near the edge. Take the next piece and start on the middle drum to the third drum, so that you have a continuous line across one top edge of the drums. Repeat on the other side of the drums and then lay your flats across the wood. Even if you have one gallon pots, you can still put 5-6 of them in a flat. Thats what I do-it gives the pots more stability, and makes it easier to move them.

I also found some pieces of plywood once that had been cut in long pieces, and I used those in one house. They are only now rotting, after about 8 years. On my very bottom shelf that I have, I don't care whats there to hold the flats. I even use pvc pieces! They only have to span 3' though! I store filled flats waiting to be transplanted under there, and sometimes flats of plants that don't need much sun.

Gosh Molly, we definitly were talking about 2 different types of "composite" wood. What I am talking about is for decks where it is out in the weather all the time. Maybe I shouldn't be calling it wood. It is made from recycled plastic bottles and stuff like that. Anyway, just a thought.

I know what you mean Jeanette! But that stuff is extremely expensive!!!

I ended up buying two of the closet maid shelves today. They're 8 ft long x 16" wide and at under $12. cheaper than wood. I'll need to put some boards on the back and front to brace them. I don't want them any wider because I need to have more shelves along the south and west walls ( the new shelves went on the north wall). Once I can get all my pots off the bottom I can set up lights on a part of the north wall for the youngest seedlings to start off. Once they're ready for gallon pots they won't need the extra light. I think I can accomodate about 1000 plants in there. This leaves me a nice walking area of about 3 ft in the middle and a clear space of about 8 ft on the south east where the heater will be located.

MollyD

Yes, the racks are the best if they will work. It sounds like you have it all figured out. Now, are you selling those plants? Do you have a nursery? Or, if not, you will have one gorgeous display. What kind of lights are you going to use?

Were you able to get the barrels filled with water? That would be a lot. What kind of gph do you get on your well? I only get 6, but it is plenty for the house. It works for the yard also as long as I use it off the well head and not the pressure tank. My nephew washed his car one time off of the house water and emptied the pressure tank 75 gallons. That must have been one clean car. He thought he had emptied my well. Guess that was the last time he did that.

I meant 6 gal. per min.

Jeanette

This message was edited Nov 11, 2006 7:29 PM

I absolutely loved this thread!
Ran outside before dark and hooked up 2 cattle panels to roof @ back of house (near dryer vent)
there's a slight bend (which I'll improve on down the road sometime soon)
added a quick piece of tarp over the top
rolled in a wheelbarrel full of hay, manuvered our huge dog house under it

the dryer's running so it's nice and toasty for the dawgs
...planning on moving 1/2 wine barrels full of plants (dwarf orange tree, pineapple guava, columbine, etc)

I've been researching for weeks now a cheap way to protect plants thru the winter
and this is perfect!!!

and wow
straw bale garden
what a super idea!!!

CharlieMom, not sure what to call you since that is a long one, CM? LOL You catch on quick. Whatever works. I think you might want to consider putting 4 mil plastic (pretty cheap from Wallys or Freddys etc.) instead of the tarp for some light tho (for the plants)?. Ingenious idea with the dryer vent. You don't have a zone listed so being in Ca I would have to think you probably won't put icicles on the dawgs with the moisture from it???

I do not know where Santa Margarita is?

Glad you joined in. I notice we get a lot of lurkers but not many jump in. Too bad, it's fun to get ideas from each other.

Try the strawbales you would love them.

I am guilty as charged, I'm one of the Lurkers!!! I am very interested in this thread for two reasons. First, my gh is not much more than a hoophouse frame is right now, I used it with a tarp for a shade house this summer. I got dh to put some wood strips across the bottom, it's up on 4X4's right now. I have the siding and pink foam insulation to fill in the sides. I purchased the covering online this spring. It's clear with reinforced squares in it, and also has end pieces. It won't be airtight, and isn't meant to be permanent. Not sure what to use eventually, it used to hold glass, but I'm not going to do that. I have the doorway planned for the end you see, and probably have a storm door I can use, I'm thinking of when the door goes in to make this end a solid wall, no plastic, this is the North side.

The second reason I'm interested is I would like to erect the cattle panel hoop house in my growing area, which is full sun and put a shade cover on it so I can grow shade plants. I was planning to build a lath house, but this is much less expensive and quicker I think. I am going for a retail/grower situation, and I think I will save the lath house for the eventual retail area.

And I do plan to read up on the straw bale idea when I have lots more time!! Do you suppose you could use hay bales?? They would probably grow too much hay. Legit

Forgot to add the picture of my first description. Legit

nix on the hay. It is only dry grass and rots ,stinks and grows weeds and mold.

Legit, that looks like a pretty good size? Did you have it originally as a greenhouse? Or did you get it from someone else? Did you take the glass out?

The cattle panels are truly so easy to use it is almost a shame to use anything else unless you are going for a permanent greenhouse.

Hold on Scoot!! I would have to go back and read thru the strawbale section to see, but there were a couple of people that used hay and may have had a few problems but as I recall they weren't any different than some of the issues we had with straw. Nothing major. In other words, "If you haven't tried it, don't knock it."

I could be wrong, probably not tho, LOL, but that is why I tell people that have questions like that to read the strawbale thread.

Melissa from Ohio, this is your thread, and it looks like we totally hyjacked it. I am so sorry. Seems like when a few get on a roll that we take over. Didn't mean to. But, we have so many on here that my dial up is taking forever.

Would you mind starting a second part? TIA, Jeanette

It might be a good idea if Molly did a new thread showing the details and steps she used to create her hoop house. It's nice when someone new (to DG or greenhouses/hoop houses) looks, and can see step by step what was done. It's also nice to see the prices for things and a total price. Someone might see the price for a kit and think they cannot afford a $1500 greenhouse but see that the most basic cattle panel hoop house starts around $150 and depending on size and covering and heat options as well as base materials and prices, that a cattle panel hoop house might be an alternative.

As a side note, I am probably going to try the straw bale method in the spring. I moved a year ago and the land here is really flat and stays pretty wet. Using the straw bales would raise my plants off the ground and also give me future materials to raise the ground level for gardens. One thing I have learned, the straw bales will sprout whatever material they are grown from (oat, wheat, etc) but it's like grass and you can cut it off. Using a pre-emergent came to mind but I have not researched it and you could not do that if you are planting seeds instead of more mature seedlings/plants. Living my new life on a farm-a hay bale is pretty much anything and everything growing in the field, rolled up all together into one bale. If this is the norm and not an exception, weeds would be worse and more varied with a hay bale.

Jnette,

We are farmers and I believe that over half of the customers we get do not know the difference between hay and straw ............
.................... wanting to buy straw to feed horses or wanting to by hay for bedding which neither would work..............
calling a lot of stuff hay that is in fact straw or the other way around.

I the Fall I see nurserys and stores selling old hay as straw for seasonal decorations.


I’m sure I’ve had this conversation more than once ,
: what is the difference between straw and hay?

Straw: The non nutritional fibrous dry yellow hollow stems or stalks ( separated by threshing) of certain cereals, chiefly wheat, barley, oats, and rye.
Used for many purposes, e.g. as litter for bedding .
Also fed as fodder for cattle (only) to provide supplemental roughage to the high grain rations fed in feed lots.

Rain does not affect the straw while laying afield before baling because it is only fiber.

Hay: Grass or legumes ( ie: clovers, alfalfa ) cut or mown, green cured and dried before baling for use as fodder;
............... sometimes including any grass fit for mowing, or preserved for mowing.

Rain during the drying/curing process usually ruins the hay and it will rot.

Baled damp hay will mold and become useless for anything or heat up enough to cause a barn fire. Hay-barn fires are terrible things to see they smolder for weeks.


Straw is great for many things because it is only dead fiber and takes a very long time to absorb water and/rot which is the main reason it is used for bedding ................ keeps the animals dry.


So straw is easy to ID ... stalks are yellow and hollow stemmed ;-))

Amazing, I've been offline this weekend and this thread has taken a life of it's own (LOL).
I don't really have time to start a new thread with all the info right now. Too much to do here.
I don't currently have a nursery. I plan to start selling plants this spring but not the seedlings. They're my future parents. The plants I'll be selling will be divisions of named cultivars.
As a permanent GH I haven't found the hoop house to be cheaper than say a HFGH. I'm up close to $1000. in assorted things that I've needed to get this together. It's been a neat learning tool though and most of this stuff will be reused when I move on to a more permanent GH. Paul has dibs on the hoophouse but he's not sure if it will hold hay (for our horse) or firewood. I lean towards storing firewood myself.
Water: we've discussed this and decided to buy the water for the drums. It'll run about $5.00 or less to fill five 55 gal drums. Currently only one drum has any water in it and it's only half full. Just that amount has made a big difference in the heat in the GH already.
The closet shelving is working out very well for me. The drums are the "legs" so they do double duty. Only the very youngest seedlings will get supplemental light from a florescent fixture.
Time to go back to work. I got the solar cover up on the east wall this morning. I'm hoping to finish the south wall today or tomorrow. Paul has to get me two more drums and I have to buy two more shelves.
btw if anyone needs drums don't forget to check with the bus garage at your local schools. They buy windshield wiper fluid in those drums and then have to figure out how to dispose of them. We've gotten ours all for free.

MollyD

I use hay for my strawbale gardening and it works fine, so far. A few mushrooms came up a couple of times but that was all. Everything growing better than when I planted in the ground. : )

Scoot, I have not heard your conversation before but I am sure you have had it. However, if you had read the Strawbale forum, you would find out that we are TRYING to get the bales to decompose. That is the point of using all of the high nitrogen fert. or Amonium Nitrate plus water. That is in the beginning of the very first PART 1.

Thanks BlueGlancer. Also, I do not believe that whatever grew the straw will come up in your plants. I bought 4 bales in one place and the only thing I got was the same as everyone else, Mushrooms. I bought 2 bales from another place and I got Oats. No mushrooms in these. I do not know why nothing else grew in the first 4 bales, but I do not believe it was any weed killer because my tomatoes in those bales did just as good as the others. Huge tomatoes.

You knock the mushrooms off and pull the few oats that came up. Kent from Wake Forest, who started us on the strawbales showed that he got wheat or something growing in his and he showed how he just cut it off with sissors.

Blue Glancer said no problem with the hay. However, I see one advantage, and that is that since you are trying to get the bales decomposed, "composted", the hay would give your plants more nitrogen than anything. That is why Blue Glancer is having good growth with the plants

I'm afraid Milissa from Ohio lost interest in her thread. I sure hope not, I think a lot of people have gotten some good ideas from this thread. I am truly intrigued with Molly D.'s greenhouse, and now Chelle, Badseed, is in the middle of starting a new life in new surroundings. I think that is so exciting. And, from the description of it I sure can see how the strawbale gardening would work wonderful. You say it is flat and fairly wet. Well, as far as I can see, after doing this for one season, that would be a real plus. The wet. IThe straw does take considerable water so that would work well.

I think it depends on your needs, as to how much you need to spend on a hoophouse. If you are going to do like I did and use it for growing a season of beautiful flowers, hence my raised bed in mine, and tomatoes, then use it for storage for the winter, you certainly can do it for tht $150. We think we are going to store the boat in it for the winter. Boy, just listening to all of you, hearing all the choices, I think we all need more than one. Wood storage, certainly dry; Hay storage, certainly dry, and I absolutely love the idea Charlie's mom came up with for putting the dawg's house in there and warming it with the dryer outlet. Fantastic idea!! And also storing the plants in there for the winter.

Then, back to the price, if you need to keep your plants growing through the winter so you have to heat it, that is a totally different story. Then you get into insulation, lights, heaters, fans, vents, all of that stuff. Then you are getting into the money.

So come one you lurkers, give us your ideas!! If you are interested in keeping this thread going I will contact Melissa since it is hers and see if she minds if we go on to a new part.

Jeanette