sawing off sprouts from Witchhazel root stock

I bought a Witchhazel Jelena last year which I love the color of - thank you very much it bloomed beautifully in January. But - I realized last fall when it dropped leaves that I really have 2 large branches coming off the root stock - which of course need to be removed. I want to root some cuttings off those branches since that is a hardy witchhazel - vernalis? Does anyone know when to root those cuttings? Also, does anyone know the correct planting depth of the remaining shrub? I'm assuming that it was planted too deep in the container which caused the root stock to grow out because I planted it at the same depth as the container. I'm confused because some grafted stock needs to be planted very deeply - like tree peonies to keep the root stock from sprouting, but other things I've read about need to be planted high to keep the stock from sprouting.

Last year my 20 yr old Corylus contorta sprouted huge branches off the base of the tree that I had to saw off with a hack saw. What are I doing wrong? Actually that Corylus sent out a 4-54' long branch out of the top that is barely contorted - its almost like its trying to grow a new leader. I should post a pic.

Sadlyrics,

You are doing nothing wrong. Root sprouts from witchhazel understock are simply a fact of life. Same, too, I imagine with Corylus, although I have never grown that.

Hamamelis species are difficult to root from cuttings, but H. vernalis is the easiest of them. According to Dirr and Heuser: ...early June cuttings, 1000 ppm IBA-solution, sand, mist, with 70 to 80% rooting in 8-12 weeks. Generally, H. vernalis breaks bud sooner than H. virginiana and can be collected and stuck sooner.

This was my first year to see H. vernalis in bloom. A bit underwhelming, as a lot going on on the plant all at the same time. Fall foliage, or spent foliage, fruits, and flowers. The flowers seem to get lost. On the plant I observed, not much fragrance unfortunately. Still, I came away thinking that it is an interesting plant for the woodland, if not the garden.

Scott

Consider girdling the sprouts and stooling or air-layering them, instead of making cuttings -- much more likely to succeed IMHO.

Guy S.

Thanks Gents! Never heard of stooling but air layering is pretty easy to set up although I've never tried it outside. Since there are 2 branches, I'll take one off and air layer the other. But - if the H. vernalis is boring - maybe I shouldn't even bother. I'll have to research how big they get to see where I can put it.

'70sballadlyrics:

IT'S BIG! Hamamelis vernalis, to 20'x20', that is. So is the length of this post (fourth cup of coffee time).

Hamamelis vernalis, as a species, isn't always the showpiece of the witch hazel crowd. It is, however, a star in its own right and has a place in many gardens and landscapes. If you want a temperamental prima donna, go for one of the grafted clones.

Many (dare I say most?) Hamamelis vernalis bely Decumbent's experience. Maybe he observed that plant on a cold cloudy day. Their normally diminutive flowers are/can be exceedingly fragrant, and are often the mystery source of perfumed winter air precisely because the marcescent foliage hides their small blossoms. There are several named selections out in production; two that I'm familiar with are 'Autumn Embers' and 'Sandra', both selected for excellent colorful fall foliage. Another for outstanding fragrance, 'Sachet', is a selection from Louisville KY named by the late nurseryman Theodore Klein.

The persistent old foliage may also be used to advantage in the landscape where some additional winter screening is desirable, much as some of the Carpinus species are employed. This might be a better choice in many cases for you northerly gardeners who have less success with broadleaf evergreens or not enough room for large conifers.

As far as planting depth goes, DO NOT compare standards for plants like grafted peonies with other woody plants. I'm not a specialist in those plants, but I believe the rationale for deeper planting of things like grafted tree peonies and roses is so that suckering doesn't occur AND so that the graft union is not killed, and maybe even so that the scion puts out some roots of its own to help support the plant long term.

Deep planting of grafts of woody trees/shrubs means death (he says absolutely; someone will pipe up with an exception, I'm sure). The crown, basal flare, name-your-term here needs to be at your finished grade soil level. This is where plants normally grow their crowns. Where a nursery produces it (be it container or field-grown) can be way off. You need to make the adjustment and plant it correctly in your landscape.

You am not posting a picture first, that's what are wrong! Also, I'm waiting with baited breath (chum, sardines) for the 54' branch sprouting from your plant -- better stand back a ways to get that pic. First guess sans photo: last year was a stressful year for many midwest landscapes (drought) and understocks are prone to sprout under these conditions. Your Corylus may be a top graft (scion on an understock with a trunk), so you could have sprouts from the base and up at the top of the understock's "trunk".

Finally, I'm not convinced that your understock is Hamamelis vernalis. You ought to ferret out the truth by questioning the source of your purchase, and follow the trail back to the originator. I have a number of Hamamelis in the yard, and all the understocks are Hamamelis virginiana. They sprout occasionally too, and usually only when the plant has been under some undo stress, but not with the profligacy of Hamamelis vernalis.

As one of the finest propagators of Hamamelis I know says:

"(by using Hamamelis vernalis as understock), you might as well graft onto Johnsongrass."

Marcescent? That's a pretty big word for a guy making fun of my 54' foot sprout ! This is from a guy who actually knows exactly when each shrub on his property cross-pollimonalatated with the other shrubs down the line. And documents it, and sends such documentary material out on the internet.
Ee gads might that be illegal even among consenting mature growth? Ok - maybe it was 1/10th that size. All I know is that I amended the bed up-hill from it and all of a sudden I'm getting bizarre growth. I've been here 3 years and each year has had some extreme in temps, drought, flood, etc. The other weird thing that happened late last summer was something I have never had - bagworms. They moved in on several things that have stress due to placement. There was a 15' V. rhytidophylum that is next to the air conditioning compressor in total shade in a North corner but otherwise doing fine - took a branch off that, a new River Birch - took a branch off that, and they attacked the new leaves on the Corylus. I sprayed the Corylus so as not to alter the appearance of the tree, but cut the affected branches out of the others. I'll send a pic tomorrow.

I suppose I could chase down the origins of this Hammamelis but knowing the little nursery where I bought it - it would probably be a hassle. I think I will just locate the root flare, cut off the offending appendages and toss them to the fire pit. It will tax the thrifty gardener nature in me that can't stand to throw away plant material I don't need.

Hi Allegretto:

Do you really know I'm a "guy"? Mistakes have been made before...

And watch out! The 2006 bloom chart is already in production; Viburnum x bodnantense 'Dawn' is sharing her scent with central KY and that harbingers spring for this garden grubber.

The "big" words are found in the Garden Terms or Botanary; I don't make them up. I have to keep up with the really smart guys who learned this in school while I was goofing off in calculus and physics classes.

You are parsimonious with the clues, but divulging the disturbance to the root system of your old Corylus supports my theory of stress-induced suckering. Cut the roots, and this can be an expected result.

As far as the invading pests: did you have bagworms (as in, individual beasts in individual little "bags" that are usually found hanging from needleless conifers branches) or did you have one of the tent-forming caterpillars (which form whitish netting covering parts or whole branches)? Whichever, these insects usually only eat leaves, and the buds are still around to leaf out next year. Getting rid of them without cutting out a branch is difficult, though, because the webbing protects them from pesticides. Using one of the Bt products (once you've properly ID'd the pest) is the least toxic pesticide route. Cutting out and destroying works, as you've tried. See this thread for the amazing outcome of a "bagworm" gone ballistic.

http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/513713/

I wouldn't sweat the loss of the suckers; your plant will make more. By then, you'll have the propagation regimen down. OR, you'll go on vacation to a viburnum-less place again and just blow it off.

Ay Matey, another day's gone by and I had no time to get the camera, Viburnumous Valued One. Yeah I bet you're a big goof off! I took 1 physics and 1 calc class and folded my pup tent and went back to biology and biochem. But could you figure out how to add more dimensions to Excel?

Theories of stress-induced suckering... Good heavens, what will they come up with next in KY? But you're probably right, I've been thinking that when I added the variegated Solomons Seal and pulmonaria underneath it I probably gave it the hiccups with all the compost it wasn't used to.

They were tent forming catapillars - the horrid black ones that stand up on one end and wave around all in the same direction. Mother Nature was having a nightmare when she came up with that little act. Yuck. I sprayed the h out of the Corylus and watched them all gasp and die and fall to the ground, but I couldn't reach the trees so had to use branch trimmers.

Does Daves Garden have a place to save files?

My days of calculus and physics (precursors to metallurgical engineering classes; oh, the days of youth) did NOT include learning much more computing than Fortran and punch cards. One step up from the abacus. No, XL/Excel only goes as far as someone teaches me. I'm a quick study though; trade computer knowledge for viburnums?

If you learn any new tricks for a wider distribution of the Bloom Chart™, I'll put you in charge.

OK - I did it. I cut away the root sprouts. That was an interesting lesson. The graft union on this plant is actually right at ground level. Last year I planted it level with where it was in the pot. Now I'm trying to find out whether I should replant it and bury it deeper or what. A bit muddy today but very satisfying! My grubbiest ugliest pants and muddiest tennis shoes. I am abnormal, I love to get dirty.
I pruned some spruce and fir trees, the crossed branches out of a River Birch, the Hammamelis, piled safety leaves on my sprouting tree peonies, admired some unknown spring bulb I've planted and all the little striped crocus leaves, thought about a lot of things and generally had a great time.

Doctah V: - on computer knowledge I know what I taught myself starting with my Apple 2C in 1982(?) and at the pace things are moving along, that looks like precious little. The Bloom Chart can be distributed for free by using a Yahoo group because you can upload files to the Files section and store them - thats easy I can set that up for you or tell you how if you want to be the owner of the location. There are also free websites available on Yahoo and on some other servers - if you want I can look it up and tell you. On the other hand I just sent an email to Administration at DG to see if there was something I was missing - i.e. a place to store files on DG. I rather liked the Vibe spreadsheet you did and this year planned to take advantage of the work you've already done on bloom times for the Blue Muffins, Maple-leafed Viburnum, and some of the others that are scattered around too far apart to talk to each other.