Qualities of the ideal Japanese Morning Glory

Hi all,

Let me introduce myself. I’m Arlan and live in Robertsdale, AL, Zone 8b. I’ve recently discovered this forum and have been lurking for a while, particularly reading the archived threads here about last year’s MG growing season. All of you have grown some very beautiful plants and I’ve learned a lot from you already! This will be my first year growing JMG and I am probably typical in my early efforts collecting seed. I was buying any seed from any place I could find before I really understood the different qualities and characteristics of Ipomoea nil, its hybrids and the other species.

The more I learned, the more enamored I became and soon found myself poring over the Japanese sites gaining an appreciation for the diversity of flower colors, patterns, shapes and inheritance. I’ve become particularly interested in the shapes, colors and variegation of the leaves. All this before I’ve even grown one! Pictures and word journeys are powerful things!

Now, I’ve dabbed a bit of pollen in my day, but obviously, never in this Genus. Years ago, when living in the Pacific Northwest I played with Japanese Iris, Asiatic Lilies and Pacific Coast Native Iris a bit. I’d really like to pursue this hobby with JMG’s, but before I start down a particular path, I need a clearer understanding of my goals. This brings me to my questions!

In the eyes of the enthusiast, every plant group has it’s strengths and weaknesses. I am interested to hear your opinions on what qualities make your favorite your favorite. How could it be even better? Is it color? Size? Substance? Duration of its bloom? Are the struggles of a huge blossom opening without a tear, part of the charm of the group or a real problem? Do the plants grow too tall, or do we need smaller, non-twining plants with huge blooms for hanging baskets? Does variegated foliage distract from the presentation of the bloom or create the perfect backdrop? What about light green foliage? Which color flowers does it look best with?

There are obviously limitations to the potential of these plants, but if we could get the best traits of all present day strains into one, what would it be like? Open season! All opinions welcome!

Hello atenkley.

Your interest is welcome...

Regarding

"in the eyes of the enthusiast"

Beauty is in the Eyes of the Beholder,and not in Things...so,it is certainly a question of the perspective of every single viewer...

re:

". I am interested to hear your opinions on what qualities make your favorite your favorite."

I personally prefer both vivid and subtle intricate patterns over solid colors.


re:

"How could it be even better? Is it color? Size? Substance? Duration of its bloom? Are the struggles of a huge blossom opening without a tear, part of the charm of the group or a real problem? Do the plants grow too tall, or do we need smaller, non-twining plants with huge blooms for hanging baskets? Does variegated foliage distract from the presentation of the bloom or create the perfect backdrop?"

The quality of 'Better' is again a relative one,but I will offer a perspective...

Plants that produce more blooms earlier,but also throughout the entire season are preferable to those that bloom late in the season,...preferable would be a larger number of blloms per day and in a cluster that still allows the individual flower to fully open...a cluster arrangement that may work well for a I.purpurea size flower,may not work well for a flower that is much larger...blooms that last for a longer duration of the day are generally considered preferable to those that have flowers that are only open for a relatively brief period in the early morning...plants that are tolerant and/or adaptable to a wider range of climate conditions,such as temperature,humidity and lighting requirements are preferable to plants with a narrow range of growing condition requirements...


There are few(if any) Morning Glorires that will bloom well in total shade...blooms that are both heat and cold tolerant...blooms that open easily without tearing are preferable to those that have difficulty opening or do so whilst destroying part of the flower in the opening process...by 'Substance' I will presume that you mean the thickness or stiffness of the corolla and to this I would say that a stiffer corolla would allow for larger blooms without the flower being too floppy or otherwise collapsing on itself...a larger bloom that remains fully open allows a fuller appreciation of what is present on the inside of the bloom,although there seems to be a growing appreciation of the look of the outside of the flower,similar to the way in which various Datura and Brugmansias are appreciated due to manner in which these blooms might hang downward,which allows for more emphasis to be placed on the presentation of the bloom parts that are 'naturally' visible,whether the opening of the flower is pointed upward or hanging downward...

The color and size of the flowers and leaves is again a relative one...although larger blooms are usually prefered over smaller blooms,interesting esthetic effects can be achieved by interplanting large and small blooms by having the smaller blooms fucntion as contrasting color and size accents to the larger blooms...bloom color is also a relative variable,but I would suggest that blooms of both a very deep and rich pigmentation along with blooms of a lighter and more 'ephemeral' pastel quality are both of interest to address all personal esthetic perspectives...


The plants with variegated leaves are considered to be esthetically interesting to most people,but the variegation is achieved by gentically impairing the areas of the leaves to have the full concentration and distribution of important pigments such as chlorophyll necessary for optimum health of the plant...when the leaves incur damage from metabolic stress,sunlight or temperature extremes..it is the leaf areas that are lacking the full pigmentation that display the damage first and easiest...because of this,I personally prefer the metabolically healthier fully pigmented leaves,but I realize that most people want the variegated leaves...



Plants that produce alot of seeds are of interest for those growing the Japanese types that can display a high degree of self-infertility,but by contrast those relatively small flowered species that produce large numbers of seeds and by such virtue can become troublesome as overy invasive is a consideration to be somehow 'balanced' out...so varying degrees of fertility and seed production is an aspect to be considered in the aggregate...

Flowers and leaves with interestingly different shapes/structures,and hopefully still be healthy/functional would be a welcome addition to what is currently avaiable...

The addition of more strongly fragrant plants,especially in the day flowering species would be a most valuable feature as well as plants that produce higher volumes of nectar attractive to fauna such as butterflies and hummingbirds...

Plants with larger flowers on the Convolvulacea that are edible would allow for their increased usage for edible landscaping and stronger scented leaves would allow for their usage in potpourries,incensce,essential oils and other potential herbal related useage...increased oil and wax content could allow for useage in candlemaking and oil lamps..

Plants with varying overall form structure,such as fully upright as compared to fully twining would add additional esthetic and habitat diversity..some of the plants which are considered to be overly invasive due at least in part to the twining nature may be rendered less obtrusive by a non-twining form...


There are many(!) different aspects that could be considered in addition to what I have mentioned above ,but I think that the aspects I addressed would constitute the main features to be considered...

Hoping that my thoughts on the matter may be of some value...

I would certainly be interested to hear any additional perspectives...

TTY,...

Ron

Ron, thanks for your quick response. Your comprehensive summary of generally accepted horticultural aspects for consideration is greatly appreciated. You've stimulated my thoughts and broadened my perspectives!

A couple coments:

Re: “I personally prefer both vivid and subtle intricate patterns over solid colors.”

I agree. I particularly enjoy the combination of different colors in the patterns. Patterns seem to catch my attention more on smooth surfaces of the flowers which can show the detail. Although, I do find myself pausing for a second look at stunning solid colors, especially if there is a reflective/refractive quality often described as “frost, or diamond dust.”

Re: Early Flowering ….plants that produce more blooms earlier….

Are there specific strains that come to mind with this general quality? I know there is an identified gene called early flowering(ef) in I. nil . Do you think this has been incorporated into the various available strains at this point.

Re: Flower duration …blooms that last for a longer duration of the day….

From what I’ve read to at this point, it seems that I come across comments about these qualities more from those strains derived from the I. nil x I. purpurea hybrids. Is this a generally true perspective? As my knowledge at this point is all academic…I’m at a disadvantage here!

Re: ….. there seems to be a growing appreciation of the look of the outside of the flower,similar to the way in which various Datura and Brugmansias are appreciated due to manner in which these blooms might hang downward,which allows for more emphasis to be placed on the presentation of the bloom parts that are 'naturally' visible,whether the opening of the flower is pointed upward or hanging downward...

Any examples specifically in the JMG arena, or are these qualities found in the species? I understand the concept, but can’t put my finger on a quality of JMG that I’ve read about that applies….

Re:…. because of this, I personally prefer the metabolically healthier fully pigmented leaves, but I realize that most people want the variegated leaves...

Yes, there seems to be a cultural tradeoff…if the aesthetics and qualities of a variegated leaf are particularly appreciated, one must be willing to supply the additional cultural requirements or “suffer” the consequences. I imagine that the “yellow” leaved plants also suffer from these effects. As I’m especially attracted to this aspect (variegation) of these plants, I’ll consider myself forewarned! In the Japanese culture, there seems to be a special appreciation for the extra care required for these “genetically impaired” plants…as if the process is part of the beauty, respect and appreciation they experience. It seems that we often just want something we can plant and forget about until rewarded with intricate beauty……yes, “cultural” differences! I like easy to grow plants too, but I also tend to enjoy the “process” of particularly challenging plants…

Re: Fragrance

Do any JMG have this quality? I know the “Moonflowers” do. Are there any real opportunities to add this to the JMG or is this just a pipe dream?

Re: Edible Flowers

You surprised me here! I would not have thought of this being associated with JMG. Are there substances present in JMG flowers that keep us from eating them? I’ve obviously never tried….honestly haven’t even thought of it. I recall reading about poisonous seeds…

Thanks again Ron. I have learned much from your archived posts as well!

I’m already rethinking some of my original ideas….and have added new ones as well!

I look forward to additional perspectives as well.

Arlan

Ron,
Can you go further into the topic of edible flowers?
I was under the impression that the leaves and flowers of Convolvulacea were quite poisonous. Of course, I have been found to be under a number of wrong impressions regarding this family.
-kt

Some great items mentioned in what to consider in a "favorite" MG. However, to me one of the most important things to consider is brought up in Ron's statement:

"plants that are tolerant and/or adaptable to a wider range of climate conditions,such as temperature,humidity and lighting requirements are preferable to plants with a narrow range of growing condition requirements..."

In an area where theres an abundance of high wind, 90+ days of over 100 degree temperature, akaline soil, etc, just every whimpy little MG of great beauty ain't gonna make it. So in the long run it boils down to what species does well for you in your area. Me. I buy it, try it and then forget it if it can't 'cut the mustard' in the climatic conditions it has to function in. The same thing goes for other garden flowers---------but what the heck, I still keep "experimenting" with plants from far off exotic places like California, Georgia, Alabama or Jacksonville,TX and once in awhile get a pleasant surprise when they settle in and act like they're native to the area !!!

Perry L. Williams

Perry, you certainly describe some challenging growing conditions!

The ability to withstand universal growing conditions would be nice, but would impose different limitations on its beauty and other features of its desirability. Mother Nature would probably say it needed smaller,more succulent leaves and flowers to survive the above ground conditions. I guess the plant would technically still be a MG, but we would probably sacrifice some of the qualities that some seek when growing MG's.

One's goals and methods would certainly be different if trying to develop a MG for universal garden conditions than if one was working for a pot grown, show plant.

Arlan

Arlan, you are so right. It depends on what a person is looking for in their gardening experience. I am sure the JMG's from the show sites are grown in perfect greenhouse conditions. As you note, Ma Nature designs the plant to compete in it's environment. A good example is the MG called Field Bindweed. Small blooms and very aggresive in tough environments. Guess the secret is to figure out what works in a given area and go with it !

Well, I like this thread!

Welcome to the MG forum, Arlan! JMGs are very addicting, last year was my first year and I have adzooks of seeds from trading (trading can be addicting to :) Many thanks to Emma especially :)

I've got to remind myself not to seedhound around all of these new pictures, lol :)

My ideal JMG would be red, lol, as there are very few if not none that have a true bright red color. Or if not bright red, a nice deep scarlet. The 'scarlett ohara' MGs are hugely varried and seem never to be the same but they are usually small, pink, and nonvariegated.

As, to field bindweed. Nature's design for that was perfect as a competitor. Bindweed is a fitting name. What I know as field bindweed is pink and white striped with long, thin, arrowhead shaped leaves and a rubbery stemm that smells bad when you break it. My "Audubon New England Field Guide" IDs it as Convolvulus sepium but I am not sure of this... I'll have to get some better photos next summer.

I also tried to collect some of the FB seeds, but wen I went back (to my house in RI) in the winter at my usual collecting time, The vines that were everywhere in the summer had vanished :( Although, I don't think I'll find a shortage of them in the summer... They always come back.

This is a picture of the plant i know as bindweed. (you can see the leaves and stem in the background)

-Zem




This message was edited Apr 1, 2006 8:38 AM

This message was edited Apr 1, 2006 8:40 AM

Welcome, Arlan, to the MG discussion group!

I think of all the JMGs I grew last year, Yaguruma was my favorite. It started out by displaying a very interesting leaf pattern, then produced ample numbers of perfect flowers, each one opened up, did not tear, a treat to see. The seed capsules and seeds had an interesting faint line pattern. All in all, it is one worth growing.

Joseph

atenkley - In response to some of your questions...

You did say 'ideal' JMG,so I allowed myself to stray outside of some of the 'usual' boundary characteristics of JMG's...

The question regarding the conscious incorporation of the early flowering gene is a good one and since I don't have access to quick and easy DNA analysis,I couldn't say with absolute certainty...I do know that the people at Kyushu University are experimenting with it and it is possibly present in some cultivars that usually flower relatively early...e.g.,"Hatsu Arashi","Cornell'...

Ipomoea nil x Ipomoea purpurea hybrids do tend to stay open for a longer duration of the day,but some of the Ipomoea nil cultivars like the "Hatsu Arashi' and the "Cornell' tend to stay open longer during the day as well as being early flowering...


Some views showing the aesthetics and contributions of the look of the exterior of the corolla...

Appreciation of the outside visible corolla is growing...my basic point is that outside of the corolla certainly contributes to the overall look of the bloom and is esthetic per se,and worthy of consideration,although it is usually overlooked/ignored by default in favor of appreciating only the inside appearence of the bloom...I like to refer to pictures from the database here whenever possible...
http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/68368/
http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/21675/
http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/82356/
http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/81403/
It is the outside of the corolla that is visible on the Ipomoea lobata and produces the 'fireworks' display...
http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/26141/
http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/78938/
http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/4896/
http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/84351/
http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/21682/
http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/55120/
The feathered/hige/ and/or double types rely on the 'exterior' of the corolla for the 'holistic aggregate' look...
http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/52417/
http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/55121/
http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/92916/
http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/89094/
http://davesgarden.com/forums/fp.php?pid=1779200
http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/51170/
http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/62980/
http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/97609/
http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/82354/
http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/70422/
http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/98991/
http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/90108/
Orange seed color display providing for additional visually interesting contrast...everything that is visible contributes to the holistic appearence...
http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/95796/
The gentle but definite outward draping of the inner corolla contributes to an augmented side view of the blooms...
http://davesgarden.com/forums/fp.php?pid=1971005
A view posted for ID purposes,but I still like the view...
http://davesgarden.com/forums/fp.php?pid=1731386
Ipomoea setosa from all sides...
http://davesgarden.com/forums/fp.php?pid=1780396


Regarding fragrance in JMG's,I've had some Ipomoea nil that were strongly scented,in that if you put your nose to the flower,there was a strong scent,but I haven't yet known any to be fragrant where the fragrance was appreciable at a distance away from the flower...I think if people were more aware of selecting for strongly scented or fragrant flowers,then we might get some...(!)...

There are a number of Convolvulaceae species that are edible and again I was not strictly confining my response to only japanese type MG's...the seeds of Ipomoea nil have,like many other species in the MG Family,been used in herbal medicine for their purgative effect and the vegetative parts of the plant possess similar properties,although in a reduced amount...

There are a number of MG's that are used as completely safe everday foods requiring little to no preparation for the roots and/or vegetative edible parts...there are some species that require more indepth preparation to render them edible and there are species which have only been used as famine foods...

A couple of the species that are very edible include(but are not limited to) Ipomoea aquatica and Ipomoea batatas which are used for the edible leaves and flowers,which can be safely eaten raw as a salad green,but are more commonly cooked as a stir fried vegetable...

There are MG species that can produce considerable 'toxicity' and shouldn't be eaten by either animals or humans...

I will further address the relative edibility and 'toxicity' of some other species sometime soon...

Glad to see that everyone is so eager to dive into the new MG season...

TTY,...

Ron

Perry, I'm finding myself drawn toward the descriptions and pictures (remember, I have not grown any yet!) of those that have high variegation, unusual leaf shapes, and large silky flowers. I also like the looks of the "yellow" leaves. Even though these types probably are not as durable or vigorous as those closer to the wild type. I'm also fascinated by the challenge of developing a plant type of smaller stature with the unique leaves and large flowers. It seems that generally from what I've read thus far, the "dwarf" plants also have smaller leaves and flowers.

Zem, thanks for the welcome! This is my first year, and I already have 60 plus plants started, most in the ground. I've got a few different species...like I. andersonii, but by far the majority are I. nil selections. I've collected a few dwarf type seeds to see what these plants look like, and as candidates for some hybridizing. I've also got a few (7) I. nil plants started that potentially have the double, or technically "duplicate" gene as well as the feathered gene which "shreds" the flower. These plants also have yellow leaves and may also have cordate or heartshaped leaves like the I. purpurea or I. tricolor. No....I'm not addicted!!

Joseph, thanks for the warm welcome. I must say, in reading the archieved posts from last year and earlier, I think you share my interest in learning how the Japanese grow these plants. I think you are one of very few showing pictures of potted plants with a Japanese type trellis. I have always been interested in the minute details they focus on in the culture of their "special" plants... I really like the looks of your "Yaguruma". I've been attracted to that leaf type also. It sounds like its flowering qualities are desireable as well. As I recall, that color pattern was selected from the I. nil x I. purpurea cross. Of all the plants I have started at this point, I think that it looks like Chachamaru has leaves the closest to the shape on your Yaguruma. From the pictures I've seen, I've also been very attracted to the variegated foliage of Roman Candy. It sure would be nice to know the heritage of some of these selections!

Ron, I enjoy your expanded responses! I love it when additional ideas are presented, beyond one's original line of thinking! Your thoughts on early flowering and the esthetics of the outside of the corolla are intrigueing. I especially like the view of Ipomoea lindheimeri. I have seed of this species also, I now may have to fit that into this year's grow list! I also really like the effect of the orange seeds of Ipomoea transvaalensis. I've always been a fan of fragrant plants and flowers...I did not realize that I. nil had this capability. As I run across this characteristic, given other redeeming qualities, I'll be selecting for it..

Arlan

Hi Arlen,

I found Yaguruma to be happy and behave on the small circular trellises, as was the case with Maisugata. With other cultivars you have to be persistent in pruning to keep the vines in check on a small trellis.

I wonder how many cycles of morning glory plantings you can get in your part of the world? Emma sez she can get 3 or more plantings in one growing season where she lives near Houston, Texas. I am lucky to get one cycle here in Delaware.

Joseph

Hey Joseph,

I'll probably try my dwarf types in pots this year, although I am a bit hesitant as I'm gone on business so much I don't know if I can depend on DW to keep them watered! I probably should invest in a drip system. I'm thinking I'll just use some of the extra tomato cages I have laying around for support.

I would imagine I will be able to get multiple generations here as well. Without greenhouse back up, I don't know that I'll risk a third generation on seed from a valuable cross for fear of not getting subsequent seed. I'm sure as I gain experience with these plants and learn how to take advantage of this climate, that I'll be more confident...(this is my third year gardening here, coming from the Pacific Northwest) .

I look forward to learning from everyone on this forum.

Arlan

Arlan,

The tomato cages would do great, I used them to grow some of my JMGs last year. Here's a picture of eBay Surprise on a tomato cage.

They would probably do ok if you mulch the container and water them down before you go away. How long are you away from home?

ooo ooo oooooo what cultivars are you contemplating growing?

Joseph

Joseph,

Nice picture! I think I may have seed for that variety....but not started yet.

I'm typically gone 3 nights a week, which isn't too bad. However, the sun and heat gets quite intense down here so potted plants need babysitting. I imagine I'll see how they perform in partial shade.

This is a list of what I have growing now. Most of the plants are in the ground, having been started indoors. Just a few are still in their 2"+ pots. I've got multiple plants of most. I created 90 feet of row space with capability of about 6 foot high string trellis for each plant. I've got them 2 foot apart, hoping that I'll be able to keep them separate....! I'm sure some will be more vigorous than others. This selection should give me a taste of what this is all about!!

I. alba
I. quamoclit
I. lobata
I. andersonii
I. nil
Rose Silk
Tie Dye Pink
Berlin Blue
Early Call Mix
Cameo Elegance/Minibar Rose
Star of India
Chachamaru
Kifuiri semiha asagishima tairin - variegated yellow leaf, blue flaked flower
Aofuiri semiha asagishima tairin- green leaf, pink flaked flower
Ehigasa
Sazanami
Red Picotee
Kikyo-saki
Murasaki-jishi
Roman Candy
Q0426 strain – yellow leaf, intense blue flower, carries the duplicate and feathered gene
Sunsmile Pink
Kodachi strain – a dwarf with short internodes
Q0777 strain – variegated leaf, pink flowered dwarf
Carol White

I've got seed for many more, but have not planted them yet.

Rabenda Tasogare from Janis
Cornell - suposedly a blue selection
"Large Japanese mix"
Hatsu Arashi
Dai
Dainagon
Maisugata
Mt Fuji - dk blue
I. lindheimeri
Summer's Delight

I also have several I.purpurea strains as well as I.tricolor - all of which I decided to wait to grow at a later time...I kind got excited about the I. nil selections.

Arlan

Hi Arlen,

Your MG garden should be fantastic to see, what a selection!

I am looking forward to many pictures from you, that would be great to see. Is this one very vigorous in starting out (Q0426 strain)? I am starting out one of the highly selected forms and it is not very vigorous at all for initial growth compared to its cousins. What a great color combo however, yellow leaves and blue flowers. The school colors of many high schools in the country I'd say!

Joseph

Hey Joseph,

I'm looking forward to seeing them myself! My early seed aquisitions were probably typical....grab anything I could find! As I learn more I think I've become much more selective. Ultimately, I guess I now look for specific traits or combinations of traits to add to the pallette of genetic material for future hybridizing projects. We'll see how far I get!

So - what are you growing this year? Anything unique or exciting? I sure enjoyed your pictures from last year.

About Q0426.....I purchased seven seeds supposedly of this strain. Like I mentioned in the prior list, this strain (gene pool) is supposed to contain the genes for yellow (really light green or chartreuse) leaves, cordate (heartshape) leaf, feathered flower, double or duplicate flower, and the intense gene. Because it doesn't contain the magenta or the purple genes, the flowers should be wild type, or blue. Flowers should be small as it doesn't contain the dragonfly , retracted or other flower enlarging genes. The general goal in raising this strain is to get the occasional plant that combines the feathered and the double qualities to get the full and finely cut flower type so prized by the early Japanese growers.

Here is a research picture, not an exhibition picture of a feathered double flower of Q0426: http://mg.biology.kyushu-u.ac.jp/mg-files/strainlist/pic04-all/pages/04260018.html

Because the feathered flower trait and the double flower trait in I. nil are recessive and sterile, maintaining the strain is a challenge. Seeds must be saved from individuals heterozygous for these traits. Knowing which plants to save seeds from is the trick!

Now the following is a summary of my understanding after extensively studying the Japanese sites and my college genetics class. I'm no expert by any stretch of the imagination....just an interested hobbyist!

The researchers (presumably from Kyushu) who "designed" the strain included qualities to assist in this seed selection by adding the cordate gene. The cordate gene is on the same chromosome as the feathered gene (linked) and very close to it. Cordate is a recessive gene also. The chromosomes that contain the cordate quality (gene) do not also contain the feathered quality (gene) and vice versa. So....if plants from this strain have heartshaped leaves, we know that they contain no feathered genes, not even in the heterozygous state ( meaning they would contain one mutant gene (feathered) and one wild type ( not feathered or normal) gene). So if we want seeds that may have the feathered gene we should not save seed from the heartshaped leaved plants. We are not so lucky with the duplicate gene as I don't believe that you can tell the difference between plants that contain one duplicate (double flower) gene (heterozygous) or no duplicate genes....remembering that if the plant contains two feathered genes (homozygous), the flowers will be feathered, sterile and develope no seed!

Here are a few other links:

The cordate leaved plant: http://mg.biology.kyushu-u.ac.jp/mg-files/strainlist/pic04-all/pages/04260003.html

The double flower with out the feathered gene (sterile) : http://mg.biology.kyushu-u.ac.jp/mg-files/strainlist/pic04-all/pages/04260011.html

The feathered gene without the double gene (sterile) : http://mg.biology.kyushu-u.ac.jp/mg-files/strainlist/pic04-all/pages/04260019.html

This is the plant to save seed from. It is heterogygous for the feathered gene (no heart shaped leaves) , and may or may not contain the double gene: http://mg.biology.kyushu-u.ac.jp/mg-files/strainlist/pic04-all/pages/04260020.html

I understand that the Japanese take great pride in maintaining these types of strains and hold the "double demono" plants in very high regard. The Japanses were maintaining these types of strains before Gregor Mendel developed the foundations of our present genetic knowledge.

Joseph, I have germinated all seven of my seeds, the plants are now just starting to develop their first true leaves. So far I can say that they all have yellow leaves at least, and none will be feathered. If a plant is going to be feathered, the cotyledons will be curled upward. http://mg.biology.kyushu-u.ac.jp/mg-files/genelist/fe.html Mine are normal looking. They are all developing at what I would call a normal rate...certainly faster than some of my dwarf plants. I really don't know if my seeds were saved from the correct type plant as the person I obtained them from was not familiar with the cordate leaf criteria. I really think it will be pure luck if I get anything of significance. If they are all heart shaped leaves I'll know I'm out of luck for the feathered gene! I have a picture I'll post later this week when I return home to the computer with my pictures!

Where did you find Q0426 seed?

Arlan

Hi Arlan,

I do not have Q0426, was just asking about how yours were coming along. Thanks much for the genetics lesson! I will have to take notes, and make a diagram on a sheet of paper to keep it all straight.

So far, I have I. albivenia, I. leptophylla, Laurrie's Berry Ice, a Chinese unknown, Blue Silk, and a JMG whose name I have yet to commit to memory, all going indoors. Not as many as last year, but there is still time!

A good evening to you.

Joseph

Arlan,

Very interesting...it is intriguing to speculate to what degree Ipomoea purpurea and Ipomoea hederacea may or may not follow the same 'rules' as mentioned on the Kyushu site for the Ipomoea nil ...

There are feathered I.purpurea with heart shaped leaves and there are fully double I.purpurea that retain all of their reproductive parts fully intact and functional in contrast to the 'double' type of Ipomoea nil which turns the reproductive parts into regular flower petals...

The term 'dominant' and 'recessive' are relative to whatever other genes may be present...a 'dominant' gene for a particular trait may be 'dominant' only if a more dominant gene is not present 'somewhere' in the genetic pool and the same applies to the term 'recessive'...a 'recessive' gene may be recessive' or dominant,depending on the presence or abscence of other genes more or less dominant or recessive...any helper or modifier genes may similarly be functionally dominant or recessive depending on the overall presence or abscence of other genes to which they may be dominant and/or recessive towards...both in the homozygous and heterozygous states...

Just some 'random' musings...

TTY,...

Ron

Joseph,

I re-read your post with the question about Q0426 and now realize that I misunderstood you originally! Thanks for putting up with my rambling on the genetics!! The picture is of the seedlings taken this afternoon. I planted them all in the garden this evening.

Ron,

The differences of feathered and double between I. nil and I. purpurea are definitely interesting. As they accomplish their "effects" in different ways, like you mentioned, I wonder if they are different genes? I guess they would be..being different species..

When I returned home late this week, my Q0426 seedlings had developed true leaves. They all have curled leaf edges which is the phenotype I believe for being heterozygous for the feathered gene. That is a good thing for me. Now I just hope that some are heterozygous for duplicate (double). My initial impression was that they were all cordate leaves, which doesn't fit with my rationale on cordate and feathered being closly linked. Upon closer inspection, I don't think they are cordate, as I think I can see points...it is dificult to see with the edges curled. I also realize that the first leaves often are not indicative of the plant's eventual leaf shape.

As this is my first experience raising these plants, this is obviously all speculation on my part! But that is part of the fun!