Need a Morning Glory/Winter Sowing Experts Help Please

OK, so I'm new to Winter Sowing and also relatively new to Morning Glories.
I live in Maine, zone 5.....Freezing cold winters, short summers
I have always direct sown my morning glories and they bloom late but do bloom.
Due to the generosity of fellow gardeners and the ease of E-Bay I acquired the following morning glory seeds:

Grandpa Otts
Rose Silk
Blue Silk
Wedding Bells
Yellow African (ipomnoea Ochracea?)
Cypress Vine (Ipomea Quamoclit?)
Picotee Blue
Blue Star
Knolas Black
Tree MG Pink
White w/purple throat
Chocolate Morning Glory
Mini Rose Bar
Jacquemontia Tamnifolia
Yojiro
Orange Noah
Japanese Double Blue/White
Variegated Rose
Merrennia Vine?
Mount Fuji
Tie Dye
Shiloori Chidori
Lavender Moonvine

OK, I'm totally lost. Should I Winter Sow these? ANY advice would be greatly appreciated. I plan to make some Hazelnut (much like bamboo) tee pees and put bird netting over the tee pees for them to grow on. I was going to put them in window boxes aroudn the outside of the tee pees. I think it will look neat!

Here are a couple pictures of the ones I grew last year (kinda plain/Jane):

http://www.jakesplace.biz/kimskreations/TEMPLATES/KimsKountryTemplate.htm

Kimber

Thanks for the garden tour. Good pictures of MG's and other plants. I'll bet you will have lots of good morning glory pictures out of that list you have gathered to plant next year.

Txwillie

I winter-sowed mine here in zone 5b and they are up and doing fine, despite lows in the teens.

KayJones - I'm wondering if you are saying that you have seedlings sprouting outdoors and that they are not killed by the low temperatures...There is snow and ice on the ground here at the moment and there is no chance that any MG seedling could survive outside right now where I'm living...I can usually safely plant outside about the middle of May and that is still alittle sooner than the MG seedling volunteers will come up outside on their own in this locality...

Would you happen to be able to share any photos of the seedlings that are coming up for you outside in your area...it would be a really interesting treat(!) to see them...




This message was edited Feb 21, 2006 12:07 PM

Ron, yes - the m.g.s are winter-sown on the south side of my home on my concrete patio, and have not been harmed by temps in the low teens. I will see if I can get my husband to take a picture and post it.

KayJones - Thanks for your reply...

Okay,if you have them on a concrete patio,then it sounds like the seedlings are in a container...
Did you sow the seeds outdoors in the fall (i.e.,just like they would have naturally self-reseeded)?...
Did you sprout the seeds indoors(!) and move them outside to get some good natural sunlight(?)...or were the seeds relatively recently brought from a warmer temperature area inside and recently planted/sprouted outdoors(?)...

It would be interesting to see if the seedlings that sprouted will continue to survive into the summer if totally exposed unprotected to the outdoor zone5b elements...

Looking forward to your reply...

TTY,...

Ron



This message was edited Feb 22, 2006 3:06 PM

I agree with Ron, those MGs must have glycerol flowing in their stems!

Joseph

KayJones,
May I assume that you have them in a container with a clear lid,where the sun has heated it up and caused them to sprout? With these conditions ,do they grow very slowly? As Morning glories normally are rather rapid growers,I am afraid they will outgrow the container and you dare not plant them outside unprotected until the soil has warmed -which for me is late May at the earliest.Are they Ipomoea purpurea? They are more likely to survive but Ipomoea Nil (i.e. Wedding Bells,Blue Silk)are much more unlikely to survive the freezing/thawing. If these seedlings survive ,I will be astonished!
Kimber,I would not reccommend winter sowing of MGs,esp. the "Japanese" variety.(I.Nil.) If you would like to get a jump on the season,you can start them indoors 6 to 8 weeks before last frost in pots under flourescent lights. I prefer peat pots as Morning Glories are notorious a resenting transplanting,and you can plant the whole pot without disturbing the roots.
Gail


This message was edited Feb 22, 2006 5:04 PM

I am interested in any MG's that develop natural anti-freeze...

Here is a list of MG's that have usually done better in cooler zones than most other types...

Ipomoea coccinea - various shades of red and orange-red
Ipomoea cordatotriloba - deep rosey-lavender-pink with nice markings
Ipomoea hederacea sometimes mislisted as Ipomoea hirsuta - usually a sky blue or can be a darker metallic blue
Ipomoea hederacea var. integriuscula - usually blue
Ipomoea hederifolia - red,orange or yellow
Ipomoea lacunosa - white
Ipomoea leptophylla - large fuchia-purple-lavender - very cold hardy perennial
Ipomoea nil - some types have become generally more cold hardy like the Early Call mix
Ipomoea pandurata - large white - cold hardy perennial
Ipomoea sloteri synonym Ipomoea x multifida - reddish
Ipomoea tricolor - some stock has become more willing to flower earlier in the cooler zones,Heavenly Blue,Flying Saucers,Blue Star,Pearly Gates and the Wedding Bells
Merremia sibirica


here is Kims listing with the botanical names listed for reference

Grandpa Otts - Ipomoea purpurea
Rose Silk - Ipomoea nil
Blue Silk - Ipomoea nil
Wedding Bells - Ipomoea tricolor
Yellow African - Ipomoea ochracea
Cypress Vine - Ipomea quamoclit
Picotee Blue - Ipomoea nil
Blue Star - Ipomoea tricolor
Knolas Black - Ipomoea purpurea
Tree MG Pink - Ipomoea carnea
White w/purple throat - either I.nil or I.purpurea
Chocolate Morning Glory - Ipomoea nil
Mini Rose Bar - Ipomoea hederacea
Jacquemontia tamnifolia
Yojiro - Ipomoea nil...there are 8 basic types,but the Yagaruma,Sayaka,Chiaki and Mai Sugata will usually do better in a colder zone than the Mt.Fuji series

Orange Noah - Ipomoea coccinea
Japanese Double Blue/White - Ipomoea nil
Variegated Rose - Ipomoea nil
Merremia Vine species - most will not do well in a colder zone with the exception of Merremia sibirica
Mount Fuji - Ipomoea nil
Tie Dye - Ipomoea nil
Shibori(?) Chidori - Ipomoea hederacea or nil
Lavender Moonvine - Ipomoea turbinata synonym Ipomoea muricata

We also have a member Janett_D who lives in Sweden(!), who is an undaunted enthusiastic of MG's and we are glad to have her aboard with us for her intrepid inspiration in the field ...

TYY,...

Ron




This message was edited Feb 23, 2006 4:16 AM

Ron :0)) and THANK YOU for that list just what I have been looking for. I also want to know every MG that can prosper in our cold environment, both indoors and out doors.
Unfortunatly this has been the worst winter since 1982 for us with snowcover length (period) and lack of sunny days.So it hasent been the best winter to start a new addiction :0))

EmmaGrace stumbled on to another Swede with her Ebay seed selling and we are doing all that we can to get her to subscribe and not just be a member here. She has been growing her MG:s indoors and outdoors for years (the few she could get her hands on here) Her nick here is Agneta55.
Janett

Okay,if you have them on a concrete patio,then it sounds like the seedlings are in a container... YES - 6-ounce paper cups with a vented, clear deli party tray lid over a container of about 25 cups.

Did you sow the seeds outdoors in the fall (i.e.,just like they would have naturally self-reseeded)?... I SOWED them Jan. 1st and 7th and put them directly outdoors, where they have been since.

Did you sprout the seeds indoors(!) and move them outside to get some good natural sunlight(?)...or were the seeds relatively recently brought from a warmer temperature area inside and recently planted/sprouted outdoors(?)... THESE are the yellow m.g. seeds from Cat in Texas. They wer NOT pre-sprouted at all.

I would guess the concrete (southern, protected exposure) is holding the heat, causing them to sprout. They are still quite tiny and have not grown past their first sprouting leaves - they showed green a couple of weeks ago, and after our low teens temperatures, those leaves are an olive green, so I don't know if they will survive or not. If I bring them into my 50-degree basement, I am afraid they will die - what do you think?

Kay, I would leave them there. Bringing them indoor to a "maybe" dark basement and lack of natural light may harm them more. I sowed several MG:s indoors and our winter sun has "shined" with its absent and those who survived this winter are in the same condition as yours. first leaves then nothing more and they have been this way since Nov-Dec.
My guess is that you have a non freeze environment under that lid that takes the heat from the patio.
I have a pink MG that has grown wild on this property and it took a month with SEVERAL hard frost nights before it caved in and stopped put out flowers, so good luck with yours.
Janett

Now if you get your short day treatment 'polished' you could get something that looks like this...


TTY'all,...

Ron

WOW Ron, that looks awesome. Question. Does it continue to grow much and put out more flowers or does it stay "very small" and doesnt send out so many/or any more flowers?
Janett

Janett_D

"Does it continue to grow much and put out more flowers ..."

They will usually send out more shoots from the apex of the main stem and any side branches, and sometimes new shoots will grow/extend out of the bud cluster area,but sometimes they stay small or just 'croak'...and that's the risk that any 'hardcore' MG grower must take or assess for themselves...

TTY,...

Ron, you can add the dark seeded I. alba to your list. The seedling I set out when it was unseasonably warm here (75-80 degrees in January) just went through a week of temps that hovered above or at freezing (35-26 degrees) at night for about a week, and no harm was done to the cotyledon or the stem. The I. turbinata and I. setosa seedings that were planted 10 ft. to either side of it died a harsh death, blackened and turned to mush. For being tropical in origin, it sure held it's ground!

QueenB - Very interesting about the dark seeded Ipomoea alba...Keep the 'cold 'tough plant' reports comin' in...

TTY,...

I didn't mean to abandon my thread but Ron has been "tutoring" me via D-Mail *lol*. I think after much confusion and thought that I'm not going to winter sow or start my MG early inside (I don't have the room or setup to allow me to). I'm going to plant them directly outside in window boxes on the perimeter of hazelnut tee-pees that I plan to make. I'm going to cover the tee-pees in bird netting (the kinds with the little squares) which will give the MG's alot to "hold on to". I'm going to mark the first bud on each type and whatever makes it here in Maine makes it. I didn't realize that there was so much to MG's. But, I guess there's alot to each kind of plant that interests you. I hang around alot on the Daylilies, Brugs and Hoyas forums and there's alot to those flowers too *lol*. I just need simple....easy.....beautiful flowers *lol*. I might "dab" a little in daylilies but I think this MG thing is much too much for me. In my mind, only the strong will survive and those will be the ones that I will continue to be able to grow. It seems in Maine we get our Spring last and our Fall first so they will have to be fast and furious *lol*. Those are the seeds that I will save and continue to use. I can't wait until Spring!

Kim

As of yesterday, I have two more containers of WS m.g.'s germinating outdoors. Pray that they survive our weird temperature fluxuations!

KayJones - it may be the case that the Ipomoea ochracea may need supplemental heat and/or lighting as might be available in your basement or other part of an indoor structure, or it might surprise us all by defying temperatures that should cause it to freeze...I am curious to know if you have had other types of WS MG's germinated at the same time of year and in the same conditions as the current types,sprout and continue to survive completely outdoors(without any indoor supplementation) straight through into the forthcoming months to bloom and produce seeds in the Autumn...and if so,please share with us what types were you able to achieve this type of success with(?)...maybe it's not too late for other MG enthusiasts to try to duplicate your successful results...

In General some of relevant questions that seem to remain are :

1) will an outdoor Winter Sown MG seedling remain small enough to stay in it's germinating container,or will it grow and need a larger protected environment,e.g.,will it need to be brought indoors at least sometimes(!) to allow it to survive...

2) can the lighting needs of a WS seedling that has outgrown it's original germination container be met by an totally outdoor non-standard greenhouse setup,without any electrical or indoor supplementational lighting...

3) will the warmth generated by an 'ideal' outdoor Winter setup be enough to warm the soil of a deeper container that may be required by a larger plant that has outgrown the seedling stage...will supplementing the natural warmth with a heating pad or larger protective covering be necessary or useful...

3) what exact species/cultivars will respond to outdoor sowing,sprouting and continued long-term growth without needing any supplemental electric heating, lighting or temporary respites from full exposure to the outdoor elements by needing to be brought indoors or any other additional protection/assistance at least sometimes

4) Do various Convolvulaceae Morning Glory species respond the same exact way that many other Winter Sown species from other Families of plants do(?!)...Are MG's 'just another' Winter Sown plant...

Ipomoea purpurea will rarely sprout in temperatures lower than 59 degrees and species that are even more tropical will usually require temperatues higher than Ipomoea purpurea...

It's certainly an interesting and informative(!) experiment...

TTY,...

Ron

Ron, I had several I.Purpurea germininate this month in a bed (volunteers) when it was 65 to 70 degrees in daytime and in the upper 20's at night. Then it got down into the teens and they all turned up their toes and were gone. Now another one has popped up with mid-60's day and below freezing at night. It will be interesting to see if this one survives.

Txwillie - Yes,there is a difference in the geographic areas that get significant warmth during the day and then get cold at night...there are,e.g., desert areas that get very hot during the day and near freezing at night,but there is so much intense heat generated and absorbed during the day,that it is still significantly retained by the soil and in the tissues of the plants,and this amount of heat retention carries the plants over until the heat of the next day...although there are many desert plants that can take the temporary low nightime temperatues of the desert areas that they are native to,they would not survive in a colder zone where the intense daytime heat is not present...


It can snow here alot easily well into April and I've seen greenhouses (that did not have electric heating) have the window panes covered in snow and ice...and unless the snow and/or ice are manually removed,the snow/ice covering will stay right where it is untill the outside temperature and/or wind removes it...

Eveyone must proceed based upon their own experience...I've tried sowing cold hardy MG's at all times of the year...I know what has worked for me in the long run, and what has resulted in repeated eventual dismal failure...Seeing is believing...first hand experience is the best teacher...
Some may have certainly have success with a method that has not worked well for me...and if something repeatedly works well for you,then by all means stick with it...

TTY,...