Ipomoea`s are short - day plants.

Hello morning glory friends,

I have read if one exposes the seedlings to short days (8 hour light per day), that these use to flowering earlier after that.

Is this true? Has anybody already made experiences regarding this?

Hello fraxinus,

Welcome to the MG forum(!)

Short day treatment of seedlings and /or more mature plants has been successful at inducing earlier flowering in MG's,but,the results can vary widely with the species,the strain or cultivar and even individual plants....

There is a strain that was dubbed 'Violet' that was one of the first to be studied in Japan for early flowering response to short day treatment,and this strain was very consistent in resultant early flowering.
The 'Violet' strain is still used as a standard in Japan to study early flower induction.

There are different types of 'short day' treatment ranging from various types of initial dark period induction in seedlings to abrupt or gradual shortening of daylight length in older plants.

The seedling treatment consists of insulating seedlings that have newly exposed cotyledons from any(!) light for 18 hour periods...any light whatsoever even a tiny bit from a brief exposure from a dim source will destroy the effect of the dark treatment...the 18 hour dark treatment is combined with 6 hours of daylight or other flower inducing color light of the correct spectrum...this is applied for only 1 or 2 treatments...after a couple of weeks if no sign of flowerbuds appear,then the treatment can be reapplied,and this may then result in early flower induction.
Repeat treatments can also reduce the early flowering response.

Plants that are older can sometimes successfully be induced to flower by shortening the time length of light exposure...this is easier to apply to plants that are in containers that can be moved or covered or in greenhouse controlled conditions using lights on timers,but plants that are outdoors on a fence can sometimes be induced to flower by placing very thick black(light impermeable) plastic over parts of the plants to reduce the amount of light exposure...
I have used this with the plastic or canvas shade rolled onto a spool attached to one of the lower sides of the fence and unfurled like a scroll over the plants and attached to the opposite lower side of the fence.

This has worked for various Ipomoea purpurea,Ipomoea nil and some other species,but some strains and plants will not respond,e.g.,SDT is usually more effective on annuals than perennials...so,it is up to each person to indulge the experiment and observe the results.

Environmental factors such as macronutrients,micronutrients,other growing medium factors, moisture and temperature gradients may also modulate the effects of different types of SDT on various plants.

Thank You for your question and I hope you can share the result of any experiments that you perform using early flower induction techniques.

TTY,...

Ron




This message was edited Feb 9, 2006 4:41 AM

Hello Ron,

Thanks for these interesting explanations. I like to read your informed answers. I have to carry out in front of some tests. About the results I will report again.

Dietmar

...and why would anyone want to do this? Short growing season? Some commercial application? Just antsy? Is there a downside to having earlier blooms like blooming quits after so many weeks? Just curious...

Hello beaker_ch,

one can answered on all these questions with yes. Depending on what everybody aims.

In my case it is only the interest in the events in the plant, and whether or how one can manipulate it. Many plants are influenced by the different day and night lengths.
So it gives plants that only in spring, summers or fall flowering. Much of them be taken to it by the different day lengths.
Many plants are exposed more artificially to day and night fluctuations so that they flowering at the right time. For example, Poinsettia (Euphorbia Pulcherima), the popular plant at Christmas time is also taken by this manipulation to the right time to flowering.

Dietmar

beaker_ch If you where to go over all the post that is made in the MG forum, you would discover so many that never got ay seeds to even continue there plants the next year because of late blooming and frost killing the seedpods.
Sometimes early/indoor preplanting doesnt help, because its not the lenght of the growingseason that matters its the number of daylight hours.
Janett

beaker_ch

"and why would anyone want to do this? Short growing season? Some commercial application? Just antsy? Is there a downside to having earlier blooms like blooming quits after so many weeks? Just curious..."

The early induction of flowering can enable earlier developement of fruit set with earlier harvest of seeds,earlier flowering combined with a longer blooming season can equate to more overall flowers.


The early induction of flowering can sometimes cause some plants to stop flowering earlier in the season,and there are some techniques that are sometimes successful at flower re-induction and/or prolongation,e.g., deadheading some of the blooms or re-application of shortday treatment,etc.,...

The application of early flower inducing techniques can be selectively applied to only a portion of the overall plant population,to enjoy earlier flowering from some of the plants,while allowing others to flower later, thereby enabling blooming over a wider portion of the entire growing season along with harvest of seeds that might not be otherwise obtainable.

The reason that fruitflies are used for many scientific studies is becuase many generations are produced in a short period of time,which enables faster return of the information sought from the studies.
Techniques that allow earlier harvest of seeds can have many advantages especially for those interested in doing intentional crossings, as early harvest of seeds can enable the earlier crop of seeds to be grown out in the same season yielding faster information return from crossing experiments.


The techniques to enable earlier flowering in plants can be for expanding pure and/or applied scientific knowledge,either for personal or commercial purposes,but many people find working with the plants in different or novel ways e.g., to induce earlier flowering to also be just plain ole' interesting fun(!)...


TTY,...

Ron

Well, you learn something new everyday! So, now I have another question. Is there a list anywhere of MG varieties that take an overly long time to set seed? I'm going to be dabbling in MGs a bit this year and hoping to get seed. I have seed for I mirabilis, I spectabilis, I eriocarpa, I hederifolia and I tuberosa. I plan to start these indoors. Can I realistically expect seed from most of these?

If I would be you I would plant them in big containers, so if the frost/fall comes early I could take them inside to get the seedpods to mature enough. That is what I am going to do with the ones that I absolutly want seeds from, since this is my first time with MG:s and also with this region.
Next summer 07 I will know better what to do with each plant.
Janett

Well, that's my plan. They are all going into containers. I don't know about bringing them indoors next fall. My dining room already looks like a greenhouse. I suppose I could always move the furniture out!

beaker_ch

To Reply to "is there a list anywhere of MG varieties that take an overly long time to set seed?"

There are alot of variables,but generally(!) speaking the more tropical species are not going to flower in the colder zones until very late in the season,if at all,but a species like Ipomoea nil may flower early or late,depending on the climate the seeds have been grown out in,because the plants can become acclimated to 'expect' the 'luxury' of a long growing season.

I usually recommend that people try to get seeds from plants that have been grown and acclimated to a climate zone most like the one that you are going to grow your plants in.

Seeds from plants that have been growing well in e.g., Missouri for at least several generations are more likely to do well in Minnesotta,than seeds from plants grown at the equator somewhere...

You mentioned
" I have seed for I mirabilis, I spectabilis, I eriocarpa, I hederifolia and I tuberosa. "

The Ipomoea 'mirabilis' does not look like an Ipomoea to me and the species epithet of 'mirabilis' is not a legitimate species...I think this is likely to be in the Merremia genus and related to Merremia gemella, despite the rather small seeds...I suspect that it will be a late flowering plant...

The Ipomoea 'spectabilis' is also not a legitimate name for this relatively large seeded species,and I do not know exactly what this species is yet,when I am more sure,I will gladly share the information,but I doubt that it will flower early...This plant may turn out to be a perennial,but so far those persons who have tried to grow it have not had luck with getting the plant to mature or flower...

Ipomoea eriocarpa tends to flower later in the season,but I'm always interested to trade seeds with anyone who happens to get a naturally earlier flowering plant...

Ipomoea hederifolia looks so similar to Ipomoea coccinea that most of the ID's on the Web are incorrect,but generally Ipomoea hederifolia is a more tropical or semi-tropical species than Ipomoea coccinea...These two species cannot be differentiated by the look of the seeds...
Ipomoea hederifolia has seedpods that remain erect,while Ipomoea coccinea has seedpods that reflex,similar to Ipomoea purpurea...the ID is confounded when plants produce seedpods that seem to reflex partially,and I am still studying this aspect to ascertain the identity of plants that display ambigous overlapping features...

Take a look at the pictures of the seedpods of Ipomoea coccinea and Ipomoea hederifolia in the PlantFiles and on the web and you can see for yourself that some plants have clear ID features and others are ambivalent...

The Ipomoea tuberosa that you mention is actually Merremia tuberosa as this species has psilate(smooth) pollen and like many perennials this plant will require at least 2 years of maturity before it will bloom.

Merremia tuberosa will not tolerate the tuber freezing or it will not survive,so it must be overwintered inside or in a zone where the tuber will not freeze...the tuber may survive outdoors in borderline climates if properly protected by a mulching.


We will all gather more information as more people grow out these plants.

TTY,...

Ron

Thanks for all the info, I too am trying MANY Ipomoea this year. I started with a few last year of I purpurea I bought from ebay, there doesn't seem to be a big following of MGs here, and DG is just the place to encourage and enable me! Trouble trouble, I take it on always, don't know how I am going to cope yet but can't wait to see the results!

Janet

Thanks for all the useful information, Ron. It looks like I'll have to move the furniture after all (LOL).

beaker, you are not on your own, have you thought of using the furniture as shelves?!!

LOL! The room already looks like a jungle. I've got 29 amaryllis in various stages of growth. The seven that are blooming now are on the table. The rest are on cheapo shelving I put up (best window light in the house). I still have china figurines and plates on display, but I don't know for how long. Over the next few weeks, I'm going to start building my seed starting area in that same room. It's also where I sit to chat on DG and to go through the plant catalogs (BIG pile of those). Not much room for eating, but the cats seem to like lurking among all the pots and whatnots. If my mother were still alive and walked in right now, I could just hear her scolding me. Well, each generation to its own and you have to make do with what you have. As long as it doesn't spill over into other areas of the house. Well, I do have a number of plants rooting in the kitchen, but that shouldn't count. Everyone roots plants in the kitchen, right?

I wonder how hard it would be to hang some shop lights for the MGs? hum...

Well thanks for the warning, I have amaryllis seed to sow! I also have half a spare bedroom full of 'tenders', a propogator under my south kitchen window, about 40 cactus + other things which are outgrowing their space in the 8' window. Orchids, citrus in the east window in dining area and on table below, plants on a nearby coffee table, and on floor. Lounge still only has a couple of plants (well 4), grow palm seed in dark cupboard next to fireplace . That will all change! Our priorities are at least right! I have serious longing for a 25' long conservatory the full length of the south side, well...wouldn't that be great!

beaker_ch, definately move the furniture!

This short daylight question brings up another related question - I am now living quite a bit North of where I used to live, and while the summers are short, when summer is here, the day length is long (39.4 degrees N, 119.2 deg W). Does that mean that I might not get blooms at all? I'm growing rather common morning glories this year - Heavenly Blue, Moonflowers and if some old Scarlet O'Hara seeds germinate, some of those, too. Just curious. I'm going to grow some any way, as I love the foliage and I have 1200 feet of chainlink to hide :-)

Kmom - I think it's just those more unusual seeds I got hold of that will have problems. The more common varieties, I see all over up here, so they should bloom OK.

Wallagy, as long as you're dreaming, put in a greenhouse too! Sometimes I think it would really be nice to be rich, but then I'd miss out on all the goof-ball ideas I have. Well, I have to take a break from gardening today and go play bingo. I never win, but it sure does get the blood moving when you're close!

Everyone have a nice weekend.

Thanks for the info! I, too, am dreaming of greenhouses and -- Spring!

kmom246 - There are alot of variables involved in a plants response to light that induces flowering like the stage in the plants life cycle when it receives the light stimulus.

The seedlings respond to the short days because the plant may have sprouted late in the season,and so it 'thinks', Gee(!) I'd better flower or I'm a goner(!)...this is similar to the response of more mature plants that respond to the gradual shortening of the days.

There are plants that may start flower earlier in the season,because they may have been started early enough to initiate flowering,while the daylight length was still short enough to cause early flowering.

There are some morning glory plants that respond to the lengthening(!) of the days and so will flower before or just after the summer solstice(June 22)...these may represent exceptions to the perspective that all(!) MG's are short day plants as plants may respond in an individualistic manner that helps to insure adaptation and survival in varying climates...

So,keep a lookout for those plants that seem to naturally flower earlier and tag and save the seeds...tagging the pods that are the very first to bloom and growing the new crop from these seeds,may help to gradually produce cultivars that flower earlier in the season...that is what a certain Mr.Clarke did when he found a plant in his patch of Heavenly Blue MG's that flowered a month earlier than his other plants...he saved the seeds from that early blooming plant,had a nursery company multiply the seeds for him,marketed the resultant crop and these became known as "Clarkes Early Blooming Heavenly Blue"...


TTY,...

Ron



This message was edited Feb 12, 2006 10:14 AM

Speaking of morning glory response to light, I've been wondering about something. I'd like to grow morning glories on the west facing side of my balcony, but at night a bright light a floor above me shines on anything planted there. I had trouble getting moonflowers to bloom there. What effect do you suppose this "spotlight" might have on morning glory flowering?

Hi revclaus,

The spotlight might make the flowers open up earlier than they usually would,e.g., possibly like 3 am or some other shift in the circadian rhythm...this might not be any inconvenience unless you were trying to grow out pure types or do hand pollination,since the earlier openintg would allow nocturnal insects to potentially pollinate the flowers before you were interested to have them pollinated...but if your not concerned about growing out types that will cross fertilize then it shouldn't be of much concern...

What the long term effects might be as far as when in the season the plants starts to flower is an open question...the spotlight could potentially hasten or prolong the flowering season or it mightt not have any appreciable effects...there are alot of variables like the exact type of light,the intensity,etc.,...but try it out and let us know how the plants respond(!)...

TTY,...

Ron