Hi All; Update to counteract my previous whining: Blueberry bushes are loaded, I should get some this year if I can outwit the catbirds and the neighbors, no pollination problem here between the bumblebees and my beehive which is healthy. A predator (big owl maybe) got the two remaining chickens. I am very sad and feel guilty. I knew the pen should have a roof and should have been insistent about it. Picking snap peas and a few strawberries. My SO has been busy chopping and splitting wood. Next winter will be tough here in the northeast. The squash and other curcubits actually look fine for a change and we should have plenty of tomatoes and a few eggplants and beans (everything started from seed here). My sister brought bunny pills hooray!!! Deer have been chomping off daylily buds :( luckily the most valuable plants are mostly fenced in and am anxiously awaiting some seedlings first bloom. So the homesteading thing is working a little bit - not enough to counteract my employer closing, but enough to make me feel a tiny bit more self-sufficient. I would love to figure out how to make it work even more so I am glad you all are keeping this thread going!
Julia in coastal Mass.
Ways to "Live off the land", share your ideas
Julia, it all takes time and we learn as we go as to what works to protect what we have accomplished so far. Sounds like your garden is doing well!
Have you checked out the Sustainable Alternatives forum? Lots of ideas to make life easier and better. Scroll through the threads of last summer and fall, lots of info on simple things like rain barrels, low cost solar ideas for extra heat, etc.
Keep at it....life is good!
I've been using a hot pepper sauce/soap/water mix for bugs and rabbits. Works great, but my spray bottle quits working after a couple of batches. Did strain the pepper sauce last time.
I just recently read (MEN perhaps?) that if you use horse manure around and in your beds, the deer won't touch them, as they don't eat where horses poop! Since that is one thing that we have here on the farm, and I know that the previous caretakers utilized that in their amendments, that may be why we have seen no evidence of deer (or anything else) in the garden so far. So I guess I'll be going through the trails with the wheelbarrow and picking up the free fertilizer on a regular basis :)
Grass seed might be a problem though from horse by products, as I see a lot of grass in the weeds in the garden area (all of which I still cannot get to due to too many too tall weeds...LOL!)
The only thing I have a problem with in the garden right now are the puppies. They love to sit down on my purple ruffles basil that I've been trying to nurture along!
Read early post that talked about Four Season Harvest, a book I just purchased. I am searching for ways to produce all my families food with the exception of grains, pork and occasional beef. I am still relearning basic summer gardening, but my ambition is to raise summer crops for all season food with canning, freezing and dehydrating; raise other limited crops to have freshly picked food in all seasons in the manner of the Four Season Harvest book, raise limited summer vegetables hydroponically - indoors in the winter, and to raise my own chicken and fish (the primary proteins for our home).
This is ambitious, I know. And it seems that I am on information overload and having trouble knowing what to do first. The protein will be the last think I do - it will require more development and cash than the veggies.
Has anyone actually raised or harvested winter veggies? (outside or indoor) Where do you start? How much for 3 adults? I could keep going?
The winter vegetables I grow for my root cellar storage are usually winter squash (butternut, hubbard, etc.), potatoes (sweet and white), garlic, leeks (although I will leave most of the leeks in the ground this winter as a trial) and cabbage. Since there is just me (sister won't eat many veggies) I cannot tell you how much. Last year I stored 450 pounds of winter squash. Few were eaten but that's primarily because they were 15-18 pound squash. The year before, I grew butternuts and ate most of them over the winter.
I have 2 Rodale books, Stocking Up and Root Cellaring that are very helpful in knowing WHAT to grow to store, and storage conditions for various veggies. (Some need dry, some need humidity.) You might find a used copy on Half.com or Amazon.
Also... I either can or dehydrate much of my summer harvest. I seldom freeze much... too afraid of extended power outages and losing the food. I even can meat and fish, and LOTS of soups.
GOOD LUCK!!!
darius, 450 lbs of squash. How many plants? And how do you prepare that much squash to keep it interesting? Also, I am from Virginia originally. (Lebanon) I lived in Wytheville for about ten years before moving to WV.
Hard to say how many plants... they were in straw bales and grew and grew... seeds someone gave me. I'd guess I had 6-8 plants, mostly Japanese winter squash (like a green-colored pumpkin) and tromboncino. I made "pumpkin" pies, breads, etc. plus many a meal with just baked squash with butter as the carb. I suppose I (we, for the desserts) ate maybe 75 pounds. A few spoiled my late March and I gave away the rest.
I like SW Virginia okay, have been here 2 years. I like the NC mountains much better but the cost of living is higher there... primarily housing costs.
As to the straw bales, how did you prepare them? Is there a link you know of? How many plants to a bale?
sgriffith: You might find this helpful; I am using it and sent it to my friend Robin in KY as we're in the same zone. It includes a planting per person guide (seems quite ambitious - way more food than we could ever can or eat!), a calendar for planting times based on last frost/first frost dates (nothing about winter gardening tho). I am using this in conjunction with Coleman's Four Season Harvest book to actually (gulp!) plan our fall & winter garden.
I have a small greenhouse (4 shelves, about 5 foot tall), and we have the supplies for a larger in-field greenhouse; I just don't know if we'll get it together before it's needed this year. I eat lots of veggies, my DH, not so much. I can eat the same things over and over with no problem, him, not so much. LOL! If pizza and chili and burritos grew on plants, he'd be happy :)
We are trying to do the same thing that ya'll are; adding (hopefully) chickens in the fall for eggs and meat, then eventually goats and a cow/calf pair for meat, milk and cheese.
There is a river across the street, but I'm not sure how the fishing is, haven't had time to explore that yet. How do you plan to raise fish?
I suffer from your dilemma - lots of information, lots of work, very little time after the J-O-B thing is done each day. Hard to know where to start! Best wishes and let us know how it goes :)
sgriffith, there is a whole forum here devoted to growing in straw bales. http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/f/strawbale/all/ I usually plant 2 plants per bale, whether tomatoes or squash. I also wrote an article for DG on straw bale gardening: http://davesgarden.com/guides/articles/view/1084/
Sunny... where's the info. you mention just above?
Oh duh, thanks Darius...LOL! It so helps if you actually include the darn link eh? Sorry about that :(
http://www.ext.vt.edu/pubs/envirohort/426-331/426-331guide.html (planting for X # of people)
Planting guide- dates:
http://www.ext.vt.edu/pubs/envirohort/426-331/426-331table.html
The instructions are pretty easy for this thing; I copied it and pasted it into Excel and then did my dates back and forward from the 00 column with our first frost date in there. It just doesn't cover four seasons like we want to do.
Thanks!
Funny you should mention four season gardening, as I've just spent hours on google searching for good info!
This is Elliot Coleman method, for those you don't have his book.
http://www.fourseasonfarm.com/main/articles/articles/mother2.html
Don't remember which site I read this on, but it suggested planting potatoes in buckets or large flower pots. Just a FYI.
Robin, there's been a long thread this year on growing potatoes in a garbage can. I have some fingerlings growing in stacked tires. If you had stacked tires inside the south-facing glass of a greenhouse, the solar gain and thermal mass should keep them from freezing?
Hineni - I'd be interested in the informaiton you were sending you friend. As for raising fish, I have a moderate creek that runs behind my house. I plan to see if the DNR or who ever, regulates hatcheries, will allow me to bring water to concrete "ponds" that I will make. And, then allow me to let the run-off water to re-enter the stream. If I stick with species that are already in the stream, I don't see why they would object.
DH is wanting to raise fish and is looking for a good species. If anyone has ideas, I would love to hear them.
I'd think in WV, that brown trout would be good in a stream-fed pond. In Boone (NC) my folks raised rainbows in their creek-fed pond because they were easy to get at the state hatchery.
Jas, some folks raise talapia in ponds. I don't like talapia, mainly because they were first brought in to clean the bottoms of ponds where catfish are raised. Yuck.
Also, I have read somewhere (?) that all pelleted fish food is made by only 3 companies and it is all tainted with mercury BEFORE it even hits the ponds... I don't know how true that is, but I have arrived at the point where I question all commercially-grown foods... that includes grains.
Thanks, darius.
thanks Hineni. I'll check these out after work today.
Thanks Darius, I'll check out the thread, but I think the rubber tires would offer quite a bit of cold protection. What do you think of starting a thread about 4 season harvesting? I'm not sure which forum to even put it in, if we did.
This message was edited Jul 23, 2008 1:02 PM
I'm interested in the 4 season harvesting as well. I've already starated my seed search.
Robin... that might be an interesting thread... I doubt I know enough to contribute much, though.
Yes, I'd think the black rubber tires would offer some cold protection... you'd need to cover the top and somehow still let the plant get daylight..
Okay, tell me where to start a thread and I'll start it with the ideas I have for my greenhouse and we'll see if anyone is doing it now and start kicking around some ideas and thoughts. I was thinking that the sustainable alternatives would be a better choice than the winter sowing, because they really aren't the same, are they?
darius, I see no reason you couldn't grow your taters by using that method in a greenhouse. We can "fudge" a bit here because it doesn't get as cold, and heavily mulching the potatoes. I have some on order. I want to give it a try here. I didn't order many, as the others are coming on strong even though we got them in late.
I'm also going put in fall winter crops using broccoli, cauliflower, cabbage. Also some root veggies with carrots, turnips and parsnips. DS1 has promised to make me a couple of cold frames so I'm going to also give some lettuces and chard a shot. I have few trees and the area I want to put the frames faces true south, so should be interesting to see what happens. It's been a long time since I tried this type of intensive gardening, but it is doable here. I have had to go back and dig out some of my books on 4 season gardening and some of the other intensive methods to see what will work here. Very interesting. A greenhouse is still on my wish list, but will have to wait for now. sigh
Robin... I'm not sure what forum, either. Not in winter sowing. Probably like you suggested... sustainability. Or beginner vegetables?
Doccat5... I sometimes wish we were a bit warmer in winter, but at least it's not Wisconsin!
I started (and didn't finish!) a small cold frame early this year, for seedlings. It measures about 2' x 4'... to fit a window I already have. I just need one more board, and to hinge the window. I'm thinking I can grow mesclun and chard, like you, if I put straw bales around the exterior. There is only me who eats greens here so the size may be adequate.
The first week of August is the best moon sign to sow winter crops (unless I wait another month which is too late) so I need to check and see what heirloom or OP seeds I have. The Brussels sprouts I planted this spring are just now getting a few large enough to pick from the bottom of the stalk, and the Savoy cabbage is finally getting a decent head. First time for growing either and I thought they'd be long finished like the broccoli and kohlrabi. Fall planting will coincide with my tomatoes being ready... I'll be a busy woman!
Man, what a learning curve I'm in!
BTW, I saw an interesting snack in the Excalibur flyer that just came. Kale "chips". Soak kale in salted water, de-vein, dry, and toss with olive oil, honey and any herb blend (they suggest Mexican) and dehydrate until crispy.
Robin - I think Sustainability forum, as it's along the lines of that: eliminating the need for store bought veggies by growing our own.
Doccat - I just planted out more stuff last night - last of summer and also first run for fall veggies. Since I'm new to the area, I may get too cool too fast, but we'll see. I'm actually keeping a record this year so I'll have rule of thumb for next year to go by.
We plan on using two portable greenhouses (and maybe the full size if we get it done in time), facing direct south, backed by a barn wall. I'm hoping for a couple of straw bale cold frames using windows I already have, near the kitchen door for salad greens. Not sure who, other than me, will be eating all of this, but if I have extra I know I can send it over to Darius ;) I'm just peeved because I didn't order leeks this year :( Can I plant that seed now for harvest next year, or do I need to wait until Spring to plant it? So much to learn, so little time!
Hi, what about cut flower gardens, and herbs? if you can find a market for fresh herbs. I know a few years back that when the cukes where done i ended up driving 30 miles away to get fresh dill( because my dill was done way before my pickles where.), or herbal craft, I am looking at building an outdoor oven. I read that it was more economical to use one, especially if you built a masonry heater inside. but i will make one outside first to dabble and learn, but i'd like to build one big enough to do ten loaves at a time, then i can spend the rest of the day making other things that can be eaten through the week. but you could sell bread and cakes, muffins and cinnamin rolls. That is what i'd like to do. I know the amish around here sell all kinds of stuff like that along side the roads.
There is fly tying, my 15 yr old son tans hides and is learning how to make things with them. ther is always wood crafts, i'd like to learn how to make baskets. And if your really wanting to be creative, you could get into dyes, and wall covers, amish rugs( loom) sell good here, and they are lovely. I have been dabbling with crochet, not my cup of tea by far, but i was tickled with making rugs with them, and they can be nice too. I know a guy who recently came up with the idea of using 55 gallon plastic barrels and he made rain barrels and compost barrels, with a 10 G profit last year from them.
Uhh i am in nyc and i hate it i wish i had a place i could go to and just live off the land pitch a tent and grow my own garden,,,, any takers lol,, I was just going to give you guys a lil secret that i learned from my cousin in western ky, he has a very grassy field in the back of his house, he took an old carpet from his house and threw it out in the field cut a circle in it about 6 inches and dug up the grass in the small whole and placed a small tamato plant there,, and omg that single tamato plant got so huge he didnt use anything to brace the plant up he let it just grow normally, i have never in my life seen a plant get so big or produce so many tamatoes, it just spread out over the carpet and grew like no other, i know at one point the plant was over 6 ft in diametor and was able to count over 100 tamatoes on it,, what made it grow like that i have no idea but the carpet from his house had alot to do with it,,it was able to keep all the weeds away he didnt even weed around the small openning where the plant was at, the carpet kept the ground moist at all times it amazed me