New Raised Beds

I didn't want to incur the expense of having to grade the land. I'm going to get some fill dirt to put into the paths around these particular beds. I figure if I raise the ground level about an inch above the bottom of the bed board and then build my paths, I;ll be fine,

But if any of you have any suggestions, please let me know

Here is the other trouble area:

We have been getting hammered in these parts with rain. The ground here is just full of water. My property slopes from the back of my house all the way down hill to where these beds are.

You can see the effects of 3 days of very heavy rains is having. The beds seem to be doing their jobs in that the seem to be draining nicely.

What's interesting is that the beds seem to be acting as mini dams. Last year when I planted in this area, there would be no standing water like you see now. The water would just rush through the beds from the bottome of the picture to the top, sometimes taking my plants with them.

This has bee really heavy rain so I'm hoping that this is just an aberration. Once I complete this area and build my paths, I'm hoping that that will eliminate any standing water issues.

Bronx boy, we used a similar site for our raised beds here in the mountains of western NC. We did, however, spring for grading. Our site is at the bottom of a steep slope. After grading, it was just pure clay and roots.

We built the beds about a year ago, with cedar planks. The beds are 12 feet long, 3 feet wide, and 12inches deep. Landscape ties were used to anchor the insides to prevent bowing. Amazingly, we have had no problem with drainage in spite of average rainfall here being greater than Seattle's. Many people do not realize that the Smokies region is virtually a temperate rain forest. We placed about 2 inches of gravel in the bottom of every bed directly on the clay, and filled them up with a mixture of topsoil, composted cow manure, and milled pine bark. One of them, on the very edge of the clearing is propped up with native stones and riprap due to uneven terrain. The beds were extremely productive this past season.

A load of cheap hardwood mulch has so far sufficed between the beds. I am trying to attach an image, but I've never done it before and it's not working!

Miss Garney:

Thnk you for the info. I have a few questions.


When you say you used landscape ties to prevent bowing, what does that mean? Were they placed like posts in each corener of the bed and the planks attached to them?

Did your grading result in perfectly flat land on which to build your beds? Did you have to haul dirt in or did the grader just level the existing terrain.?

I just figured out that part of my problem with the standing water is that I backfilled the beds with dirt from the paths. That area was all one large bed last year and it didn't make sense to me to cover up all that good soil to make a path. So the area between the beds is actually lower than groung level. Once I backfill with fille dirt and my path foundation, I think the problem will go away.

Bronx:

1. Landscape ties were cut to fit inside the width of the boxes (3 feet wide) and secured to the long side planks, to essentially pull the long sides in. We put one across at the midpoint of each box. Shorter pieces were secured on end in each of the corners.

2. The grading resulted in a reasonably level area, but there is a slight tilt to the whole thing, as well as uneven places. The grader simply pushed everything away to the sides. I had to fiddle a lot with each bed, mounding up clay to lift on one side, scraping little ditches on the other, trying to make them even. I'm not sure it matters that much, but I wanted them to look neat and as level as possible.

3. Using the native clay was not an option. The whole idea was to have very high quality soil in the boxes, so we had a load of composted cow manure and topsoil delivered by a neighbor who raises cattle and we filled them all by hand: 2" of gravel followed by 8 to 10 inches of the good stuff. We added a bit of milled pine bark to lighten it up a bit.

I think I can attach an image now. These are the beds as photographed from the top of the slope. They look small, but 5 of them measure 12 feet long by 3 feet wide by 12 inches deep, and one over on the left near the woods is 15 feet long.

This image from last summer shows part of two of the beds and the excellent results we had. In the foreground, spring-planted Anemone "Honorine Jobert"; in the background, Texas hummingbird sage which I believe I started indoors in the beginning of April.

Wow

Very nice Miss Garney

BB, one of the beds is 4.5 by 14.5 feet. The other two are 4.5 by 18 feet. I tried to find the receipt from the cinder blocks, but it's not handy. I think there were 200 cinder blocks in the load, and I needed 182 for the beds. I'll try to find the receipt to get an exact price. I really love these raised beds.

I also had to get a load of compost/topsoil from a local farm. I got the biggest load available, 16 cubic yards, because I had some other projects to use it in. That cost almost $500, which hurt a bit, but I didn't really have much choice! Again, my only other option was to make 100 trips to the local nursery and buy bags. I'd say I used about two-thirds of the compost in those beds.

:)
Dee

Digger Dee:

I was going to consider concrete blocks but the cost scared me. I'm probably going to have 20-30 beds when it's all said and done.

I run the IT department for a homebuilder and my land development guys can get me a dump truck of topsoil for nothing. I just have to find sufficient organic material to mix with it. Someone suggested I find a compostiung operation and buy some from them

Thought I'd post some progress pics and get some input.

Here's the left side of the rear garden.

As you can see, most of the beds are done and some already have veggies in them. (Peas, carrots etc)

The ideas I recieved from DG on building my paths were great.

Lots of newspaper and cardboard. Then cover it up with landscape fabric and a good layer of mulch. We have to finish this one

Right Side of the garden.

The trash can holds my alfalfa tea. I've been brewing it and letting it turn to sludge and then turning it into my new beds

Another pic of the right side.

I need some ides on what to do with some of unsed space. Thinking EBs. The ground is on a slope and I don't wnat to so anymore raised beds there.

These beds were an improv. They sit at the bottom of a serious slope and during a heavy rainstorm, a veritable stream would pour through here. Building the bed with the pot oin it helped divert the water. We added the second bed in front of it to provide erosion control. We put Blueberries in the bed with the pot on it and Blackberries and raspberries are slated to the top one.

Phase 2:

Every pine with an dot is going to go as soon as I get another chainsaw. My greehouse is going smack dab in the middle of where those tress are now.

The pices I previously posted sit behind this stand of trees

More beds will go in front of it. Sunflowers and veggies.

Now that I have most of the back end built, I'd like to "pretty" it up. Add some color. Maybe some small fruit trees and shrubs. All of these beds recieve full sun and will recievec even more when that stand of pines is removed.

Any ideas?


Thanks
BB

Dwarf fruit trees, full sun and a greenhouse, now you're talking!! Looks great!! ~ Suzi :)

Well I have read through most of your thread BB, and all the while I was going to ask if those trees I could see were yours, and could you thin some of them out.

The reason? Use them for sides of beds! For free! We did that with some sycamore branches that needed taking down along our drive on the neighbours side. It had previously been cut to a couple of feet from the ground, and had sprouted several strong, fairly straight trunks. Trim them up, lay one thin end to one thick end, and bolt them through from top to bottom with threaded steel bar, washers and nuts on the top. You can also go through the ends to hold the sides together.

I use mine under the edge of a horse chestnut tree as a hosta bed, and they love it. Also, you must have plenty of organic matter amongst those trees in the form of leaf mould. I make loads from the leaves I get (tons) with other stuff, potato tops, grass cuttings etc., by putting them in a compost bin. Everything does extremely well in it, mixed with Moss Peat and gritty river soil/leaaves from our 'beck' or stream running along the front of our property. The moss peat gives it an aireated, fluffy texture while helping to hold moisture.

You mention having trouble with carrots. I was getting quite good results as carrots like a deep root run in sandy soil, which I have. The last 3 years or so the seed has not been good, I can tell to look at it. I have always grown Autumn King as a main crop, I try different suppliers. The last crop had fairly thick roots, but only a thickness going about 2" long. They should be at least 8", I would say they were not the correct type but a stump rooted one. I am pulling my hair out, it seems we are getting conned even when it comes to carrot seed!

I wonder if you could use some sharp builders sand mixed in your beds to help with drainage, I know the stuff we dig out of our beck is much more free draining than ordinary garden soil, that seems to be very 'heavy' if I use it instead, and chokes the mix.

here is a pic of my raised log bed

i should add that if you have only got a shallow bed for carrots they won't like it, they send down a long tap root. Too much water can also discourage them from making a long tap root, as they don't have to search for it. Carrots I think were developed from a wild carrot which grows near the sea in sandy soils.

To avoid waterlogging and to give them a deep run, I would dig in a good amount of sharp sand to the ground below the bed before topping it up, to about 12". Leaf mould can also help break down clay soils. Parsnips would also appreciate that as they make a very long tap root. If you can't get enough leaf mould is there a local source of other organic waste materials being used in your area, perhaps you could ask around, people at work etc.

If you are wanting to grow potatoes I would try digging a lot of organic material into the ground under the bed also, I don't know what your soil is like but it looks like it could be quite sour if it hasn't been tilled, and tree roots draining the nutrients. I put my potato bed in a fairly shady spot where nothing else would grow, and have grown them there for 7 years. You should rotate, but I get blight anyway, and to overcome that I grow only early, 2nd early, and early maincrop varieties that are quick to fill before the blight comes. The ground had not been tilled for eternity by the looks, it was black, lumpy and full of fine tree roots. I put a lot of the soil from our beck on it, and every year we lay a layer of compost at the bottom of the trench, just covering with a little soil before putting the seed potatoes in. They should be planted about 4" deep, then hilled up once growing.

Brassicas should be OK with clay under them, they have shallower roots and like to be kept fairly moist.

Thanks Wallaby:

I'm going to consider the tree beds. It would save me money. My only problem is that they are so big. About 70 feet or more. I guess and can cut them in half and move them.

All of my beds are made with 2x10s or 2X12s. I didn't have much of a problem with clay. When I was double digging the beds, we did hit a little but not enough for concern. The soil was really compacted after we removed the first level but we broke it up pretty good with pick axes.

I did have one area that was very sandy and nothing grew there. We want to put a small deck and work area there so we incorporated the sand into the beds where drainage was going to be a problem. It's been raining pretty good here and the beds are draining very well.

Thanks for your input

i wanted to show you my pride and joy, 18' in diameter and about 15" deep with built in drainage i built in from scratch, the blocks were a bit pricey but worth it since its on the corner for every one to see. if i had it to do over i would have raised the foundation another half a foot. its all flower bulbs with anuals for season filler











'

Very nice..... I want one!

Sanna

That's nice

AT that diameter, is it easy to work with?

What is the foundation under the bricks made of?

BB

i find it comfortable not to overwhelming for single bed the foundation is a concrete footer 10" wide and 10"high i need to get it painted i completely forgot you can add a color agent to it available at several retail outlets....oh well. i recently added my top dessing of xmass tree mulch so now i can take down the cat fence and there my cats no less.

wallaby, very smart of you to use your own trees to make the raised bed, and your hostas are beautiful. there are not trees here except the ones I planted and I am sure not going to cut any of them down. Idid have 35 poplars that I planted for windbreak on the hillside of my garden. What a terrible mistake, their roots traveled more than 100 feet down hill, even went under my garage. They did grow very fast. Anyway after about 4 or 5 years I hired a company to come and cut the trees down and chip them up. I had two huge piles of chips at the corner of my yard. That was 3 1/2 years ago. The piles are completlely used up now. Some were used to fill up the excavated pathways in my new Woodland Garden, and they have settled down at least half. Of course poplar is a soft wook. And even after painting the tops of the stumps with Blackberry Brush killer, I still found a twig coming up from an old root.

DonnaS

BB, That seems a good idea from Wallaby, that you could maybe use some of the trees you are going to cut down for building some of your raised beds. Might have to use the upper part of the trees but there should be enough for a series of raised beds. Good Luck.

DonnaS

bulbhound, Great looking round raised bed. Be sure to send some pictures when your plants are blooming, and when you decide on painting it.

DonnaS

rutholive I'm full of good ideas, necessitated by the need to save money and spend on plants! I think it's a good idea to recycle whatever we can, there is a semi-circular dwarf wall around the tree behind. I used the old reconstituted stone blocks that we took out from the fireplace, which was one of those 80's style limestone block affairs with walls both sides and topped with shelves. Such a waste of floor space, one side we used the same shelf as a computer desk and put cupboard doors under, it used to house the vacuum cleaner but I always have a chair in the way, and it's good for germinating palm seeds with the warmth!

The blocks just did the wall perfectly, with the tree roots there we topped it up with compost and river soil, I have ferns, helleborus, cyclamen etc there and they do really well!

You did well to grow your own wood chips! I would never have guessed the roots would have travelled that far though. I suppose if you had bought the chips they would have cost you more! Were the poplars what we call Tulip wood? We used it once making ornamental propellers, it is very fine grained and stable and used in cabinet making for insets.

bulbhound I bet your raised bed will get a lot of attention when it's full of plants, bulbs a good idea to start, my hosta bed has species tulips around the edges, taller ones in the middle which like the dry spell in summer with hostas taking the moisture, they went silent for a while but returned last spring after a rest. I had Corydalis flexuosa Pere David all over the middle, grew lots from one small plant, they grew from autumn over winter and were a mass of blue flowers the first year with all the tulips it was a sight! The corydalis does tend to get a rot and with being covered with the hostas, which grow when its finished, it has mostly gone, I do have a plant or two elsewhere the moles keep digging up! I have thought of doing it afresh just for the show, I had a very over exposed picture of it on 35mm film, the afternoon sun just reflected on it, I took a digi of the photo so will show it anyway

Wallaby: so many things for me to envy...zone 8, greenhouse, flat yard. Honestly, I wish my husband liked raised beds made of logs as you have there. I think it's rustically charming, and we have gazillions of logs, but he does not agree. If he did, I would have many more flower beds than I do now, and perhaps my lumbar discs would not be in such bad shape from building dry stack stone walls for perennial flower beds.

missgarney show him my pics, he might just change his mind! You will have to try some feminine trickery, like "if I have to build any more of those stone walls I don't think my back will hold out, however will I manage to look after you, cook you meals, etc." You see, men don't like to be asked to do something, you have to get them to make the suggestions, and you have to lead them into it! Just ask how will he feel when he has to look after you because of your back? Of course you have to make it sound like you do not wish to be a burden! Reverse psychology, men love to come to the rescue, as much as it irks us capable, intelligent females!

How about telling your husband he will save a lot of money by using those logs, and it will get them out of the way, also logs will harbour vermin, snails, slugs, another good reason to 'encourage' him. Failing all else suggest divorce if he can't do a litlle thing that would make you happy! You could call him Fred Flintstone, see if he likes that!

The zone 8 isn't like your zone 8, we don't have the hot weather to go with the cold, it's mostly just cold, summer is a mere blink. Greenhouses, one was here already, 2nd got cheap from a neighbour, 3rd got free from a neighbour. Very useful, couldn't live without them. Look at your neighbours, if they have one they don't use.....

We do have a little bank, where that pic was taken from, I think it was bulldozed there to level the ground for the house, that was well over 100 years ago. The oak tree at the front is a bit higher, so is the ground level on the road side of the 'beck' or stream.

Well, I did say I'm full of good ideas, I hope some may work for you!

Thanks Ruth:

I hope I get the opportunity to take Wallaby's advice.

We just got some devasting news. The county is planning a major parkway extension that if all signs are correct will pass right through our property. The county has been secretive about what's going how and how they have approached this. I called the transportation department today and the rep I spoke with was very vague. But after speaking with y neighbors and doing some investigation, the picture doesn't look good.

We are at best looking at losing some of our property and at worst losing everything. There's a hearing on the 21st at which time we'll know the true story.

I hope we do get a good garden this year as it may be our last.

BB

Holy Cow! that is devastating news - after all your hard work. On the bright side they could be like our state/local gov't and put off the project for years - going on 6 now. Maybe there is hope!

Keep us updated.
-Kim

Thanks Bluekat:

This is the one time I'm cheering for massive bureacracy!!

LOL

BB

Hey - it could happen. They have been talking about rerouting our highway for years. Some people even told us not to buy our house cause the highway was going to be next door. We moved here two years ago - nary a word - it is on the back burner somewhere. Meanwhile we added more raised beds! Sound familiar?

Go to those meetings! How long have you lived there? I know I read it somewhere on DG but...

BB I hope it is just a rumor and won't come to pass. sure would be too bad for you to lose any or much of your property.

DonnaS

hey bronx! im so sorry to hear the news i hope it stays wraped up in red tape for years we georgians no all about eminet domain county's here dont play nice all are prayers are with you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks Everyone.

My wife and I have decided that we'll live our lives as normal. I'll continue with my projects and we'll take one day at a time. We'll go to the meetings and do what we need to do.

I really feel for some of our neighbors. My next door neighbor and his wife are in their 80's. Both of them have had major joint replacements (Knees etc). I was talking with them last night and they said that they hoped to die in this house. They have gotten removed before.

And you've got to understand that these are new homes. My home is 6 years old, theirs may be 4 or 5. His thing is his lawn. He's doesn't garden much because of his age and health but he loves to keep his lawn in shape. Out there on the tractor like clockwork. You could see the sadness in their faces last night. If nothing else, I hope this gets bound up in so much red tape that they are able to go to glory while they are still living here

BB

Bummer, BB. By all means, go to the meetings and speak up. The speaking masses can make a difference.

Are there any historic lands in your area? That can come up and often will put a damper on new highways in an effort to preserve history. Also, any rare flora growing there?...that could help too.

Hope all things work out to the better for ya!

Shoe.

I am selfish in that I take such news as a lesson and a warning. In fact, none of us is secure in knowing we can stay--or will want to stay--where we are living and gardening now. Think of the Gulf coast and all the beloved homes and gardens lost.
I'm not preaching I'm just telling you how I try to deal with it.

Sometimes I have felt sad that my husband and I have moved several times during our marriage, and each time I was grieved to leave my garden. "Why can't we just stay in one place?" I would ask myself, through tears. But the simple fact is we can't, and each growing season is a gift, and like the Buddhist monks who painstakingly create a huge magnificent mandala of colored sands, only to have it scooped up and poured out into the ocean, I will always have to give up the garden I'm working on...some day. The challenge is to create without becoming attached to your own creation.