Desperate Beginner with a challenging yard - PICTURES

I took some photos of my yard. I didnt capture my lower slope, but hopefully you can get the idea of what my challenge is.

I also want to point out that my entire yard used to be filled with Ivy. I have had it pulled out and occassionally hire someone to pull out the regrowth. I think I have had it pulled enough that the root system is gone.

Here is the website I created:

http://exquisiteassistant.com/YARD%2012-05.htm

Hopefully this helps.

Sherri

Hi Sherri...
I looked at your photos and have some questions. First of all, where is Silverado Ca? You are in zone 10, so am I...so I think I can help you a bit...

Need to know what direction those various shots face...
What "look" are you going for???

Looks like you might have trouble keeping things alive due to competing tree roots...Also, those trees may need a good lacing out (thinning) before you can proceed , so more sunlight gets in those areas...I see you have irrigation on slope...that's good to start with...

Also, azaleas and camellias need special soil to grow in...that can be solved easily enough...

Do you have a Sunset Western Garden Book??? That is a great resource for California plant info. It's a good investment...

Also, lots of great levels to work with...

Do you have a dog run? Hard to have a yard with big dogs...unless they are well trained and not "diggers"...

On the shady slopes you could probably do Camellias pretty easily...as long as you ammend the soil correctly...

Hi Jasperdale

My home faces North.

I had my trees trimmed approximately 4 months ago. I had a professional arborist do it. They claimed they couldnt cut any more back due to the danger of killing the California Oak. Supposedly there are special guidelines and even laws regarding California Oaks.

My dogs are Greyhounds and a Borzoi. The Greyhound is the 45 mile per hour couch potato. They are indoor dogs. So technically I dont need to have a dog run. They do play outside and run back and forth along the upper deck. It's pretty funny. The Borzoi (the one in the picture) when I let him out, he roams the top of the hill (upper slope), like what's in the picture. I just need a way to fence the entire thing so he doesnt wander too far.

I do have quite a bit of roots in my soil. Its actually pretty bad. I am surprised that the tropicals have been doing as well as they have.

I decided today that I am going to cut down some of my large shrub/trees- I have about 4 trees that I think are called Potatoe trees? They have purple flowers. There is a picture of it on the first picture upper right side. I dont care for them and they are all over my lower slope.

Any ideas on how to remove all the roots and not kill myself?

Oh, I forgot to mention where Silverado is. It is in the Santa Ana Mountains.

Here is a nice article on the area and its history. It is called Orange County's best kept secret.

http://www.canyonlife.com/hist.sil.pg1.html

If your house faces North, then you are on the side that gets the least amount of sun...all year...

You have to be extremely careful of what you try to grow under Calif. Oaks...they don't like regular watering...best to get a Sunset Western Garden Book and look at the section for planting around oaks... You can kill an oak by planting "thirsty" plants around them...

Sounds like a good idea to have some things removed...this will give you a fighting chance at more sunlight and/or reflected sunlight ...

If I were you, I would stick with Calif. Native plants...especially near the oaks...
It's really hard to guide you properly without having actually seen your property...

Plus, you can have a beautiful garden(s) in the shade as well...there are lots of plants that do well in shade...ferns, camellias, hydrangeas...azaleas...depending on where you use them...

As far as removing roots without killing yourself and the trees...well...that's a tough one...you don't want to remove oak roots...you'll kill the tree(s)...talk to your arborist about it...again, hard to advise you w/out actually seeing what you're up against...

Best to really investigate this Oak situation and assess it before you spend a lot of time and money and have it all backfire on you...I don't know your area very well but if you have a good nursery out there, you might inquire with them...they may have a service where they can come out and see your place and give you some tips...

Yup - I am on the shade side of the mountain :(

The LAST thing I want to do is kill the oaks. I hope I havent done any damage already. I have lived here one year. I am crossing my fingers.

That would be fantastic if I could find someone to come out to my place.

Thanks Again, you have been a world of help.

Sherri

Hi Sherri. Boy, I thought we had a challenging landscape! I echo the suggestion about native plants. There are beautiful plants available that will grow in your situation -- we can't have them because we have almost NO shade and I'm allergic to oak trees, so don't want to plant them on our property. Arrggh!

Try going to the Las Pilitas web site www.laspilitas.com They have a database and a page where you can plug in your requirements and it will list the plants that grow to those specifications. You can go slightly outside the guidelines for special things, of course. Also, they have tons of pages of examples, ideas, and general knowldege about native plants -- especially oaks. The nice thing about natives is that they are more well-behaved and you won't have things growing out of bounds all the time.

Lastly, take a drive down to their Escondido location, photos in hand, and ask them for suggestions -- they are sooo helpful, and you can see a lot of plants and decide if you like them. We live just a few miles away and I love to wander around looking at things that are planted in a native setting. Good luck.

Kathleen

I can suggest lorapetulum, any nandina, correa, Western Sword Fern, bergenia, statice, sword fern, mondo grass for that dog run - or Berkeley Sedge - either one will work. My guess is that mondo will be happier in the shade. You'd have to protect it for a little while but it's great for dogs. I have a distictis bucciniatoria vine climbing in the shade - it's a mUST to keep it off of the trees though. It won't bloom in the shade but it will cover your fence. Another possibility is that there is an evergreen climbing hydrangea. It needs water but they are supposed to grow - slowly - to 25 feet. You may be able to put the root zone enough away from the trees that it won't bother them. You could even grow a red passionflower in there somewhere. Or another color if you wanted something more reliable.

Cotoneaster and many grasses will grow in filtered shade and so will Pacific Coast Iris. Joe Ghio had this year what he calls a "Landscapers Special' with 50 PCI plants for $60.00. You do have to keep them damp for the first month or so but they come in October so it's not too much of a problem.
http://thegardensite.com/irises/bayviewgardens/

You can order a catalog if you'd like - but it won't be until March or April.

You are competing with tree roots and ivy roots everywhere. I think that it's much of your problem. It's going to be a big task ammending the soil so you can grow things like camellias - and I do grow some camellias under my oaks. They don't need too much water after they are established.

Hope that some of this helps.

If you do decide to plant under your oaks, you will want to do it in the rainy season. Even xeric plants need water to get established, and watering an oak in summertime will risk killing it.

You also seem to have quite an upslope there, going down to the house, am I correct? You should be careful what you are planting unless you are very sure the drainage around your house is sufficient to handle a heavy rainy season. We are forecasted to have a wet winter which usually happens every 8-10 years, although if I remember correctly my relatives in the LA area had a much wetter winter last year than we did up here in Northern CA. Wouldn't want you to discover that half the excess rains end up in your lower level!

Make sure you purchase a copy of the Sunset Western Garden Book, which has specific planting suggestions for all regions of the Western states.

Thank you everyone for your suggestions.

You know - I purchased the Sunset Western Garden Book when I first moved in. I didnt like it. Maybe I purchased the wrong one. I didnt find it helpful for my situation.

Last years wet season was VERY wet in Silverado. The main creek that runs through Silverado even overflowed. My house and yard survived great. Who ever built the home, knew what to do. I didnt get any flooding or uprooting, etc.

Sometimes I feel like giving up and just stop trying. Maybe I have one of those yards that you just cant do anything.

None of my neighbors yards do me any good. NO ONE in the canyon has my situation. I always liked being unique - but this is too much.

I will research your suggestions and keep you posted.

Hi Sherri,

I, too, have a house near native oaks and I agree that it's very important to educate yourself about the oak(s) before landscaping your property. Native California oaks may look mighty, but their shallow feeder roots are very sensitive to any kind of disturbance to their natural state-- especially summer watering, competition with incompatible landscape plants, trenching, grading and root removal.

The California Oaks Foundation is a great place to learn about your oak. Before landscaping, you need to know how densely you can plant under the tree (not very), which plants are appropriate (certain natives and other drought-tolerant plants), and where NOT to plant (within 8-10 feet of the trunk). It's also important to consider the fact that an oak's root system often extends well beyond its canopy or "drip line". The drip line is merely an above-ground approximation of the bulk of the root zone and this is where you need to be especially careful.

http://www.californiaoaks.org/

If an oak is under stress, sometimes it hangs on for years, developing internal decay and root loss that isn't necessarily outwardly apparent... and sometimes it succumbs very quickly. The bottom line from a homeowner's perspective is... "If I take care of my oak tree then it probably won't fall on my house or family and I won't be responsible for killing a protected tree that can live for hundreds of years." ;-)

The website also has a list of certified arborists specializing in native oaks.

http://www.californiaoaks.org/html/oak_tree_care.html

You can learn a lot from the website, but I also recommend a great little book they sell, Compatible Plants Under and Around Oaks ($12). It tells you everything you need to know about landscaping under and around your oak and it even includes plant recommendations. The Western Garden Book also has a list of oak-friendly landscape plants and is a nice complement to the oak book.

Your local chapter of the California Native Plant Society is another good resource: http://www.cnps.org/chapters/chapter_map.htm

As for the rest of your property, there are plenty of plant options for any situation. The Western Garden Book has specialized plant lists for dry shade, moist shade, sun, showy flowers, bulbs by season, etc. etc. You'll want to group your plants according to sun and water requirements.

Since gardening is so regional, you might want to buy a copy of a locally written gardening book. One is Maureen Gilmer's The Complete Guide to Southern California Gardening. I'm from northern California, so others might be able to recommend more titles. If you want to see what books are available for your area, do a keyword search for "southern california gardening" books on amazon.com. Some are even month-by-month guides telling you what to do and plant in the garden. Makes the whole thing seem much less overwhelming! Titles by Sunset are great too. There's a brand new edition of Sunset Western Landscaping coming out this month. Definitely check it out!

Hope this helps.

Angela
An oak "owner" in northern California

thanks, angela.

i'm an oak "owner" too, here in marin.

I have been so buried with work - I am just now getting to check my thread. Holy toledo - what a wealth of information you have provided.

I have put my plans on "hold" for now. I have so much going on workwise, I dont have time to think about my garden. So, I sit and stare at a blank slate. Oh Well.

I did find a local native plant landscape designer and I was going to hire him to evaluate my property. He was recommended by a Master Gardener that I was able to track down. I now need to make sure he is well educated with california oaks.

I should be able to pick up where I left of in February. Right now I have a few plants growing in pots in my sunroom. Barrenwort, Hellebore. I also received brugmansia cuttings, which are starting to grow. And someone else is sending me some honeysuckle. I would like that to grow along my fence to hopefully block my neighbors.

Thank you for all your wonderful information. I am glad this thread is always available, so I can keep coming back to use it as a reference.

Sherri

Oh - one more thing. One of my native oaks located on my upper slope - one that I have never watered - I have left it natural - during our last rains (couple weeks ago) we had high winds. Anyway - one of the large branches broke off.

Should I be worrying that it might be sick? It is a very very large oak and if it is sick and it ever uproots, it will land directly on my house.

I had hired an arborist to cut back my oaks last fall. He trimmed off everything that he could. Should I call him again and tell him about this? He wasnt cheap and who knows how much he will charge to remove this huge branch. Right now, my trellis is holding it up. It wont last too much longer.

Hi Sherri,

I would absolutely call an oak specialist. Hiring a certified arborist assures specific training and ongoing education, but not all certified arborists are native-oak savvy and not all certified arborist-owned companies use certified arborists to do the actual work. Believe me, I've been there. Your best bet is to call an arborist recommended by the California Oaks Foundation, especially considering the oak in question's proximity to your house.

http://www.californiaoaks.org/

One more suggestion. You seem to have a lot of steep slopes so be careful about removing too much groundcover (even ivy) before or during the rainy season. Groundcovers actually provide a very valuable service for your hillside-- erosion control. If you end up hiring a landscape designer or contractor, make sure he or she pays close attention to drainage, irrigation and erosion control. Some landscape contractors even state in their ads... "drainage specialist", etc. I know drainage and erosion control aren't fun gardening topics, but they need to be addressed (even planned on paper) before you get to the fun part-- deciding what you can grow!

This message was edited Jan 12, 2006 5:27 PM