Argyrea nervosa and blooming.

Anyone know how old/large the "Hawaiian Baby Woodrose" has to be to bloom? Mine is only a year old.

I am told 2-3 years.

Your guess is as good as mine. I have planted all my seed but 2 and out of the 6, so far none have sprouted. How were you able to get the seed to sprout? I would love to get one going....

Dee

Mine sprouted quite easily. I think I got mine from Natural Selections. Anyhow, I soaked up first with a little hydrogen peroxide in the water for a day or two.

Mine are going on their 2nd year and no blooms yet. Got my seeds at some herb Shaman place. Some of the seeds were old and did not sprout.

These one's here did not get real tall here, they stayed at about 1 ft. then died down, and this year they are still small. Is that normal for their height?

Guord, I have one on the southeast side of my house that the vines must be about 15 feet each.

rylaff,

I have a couple of things that say Baby Woodrose, but I also have some labeled Argyrea Nervosa (small beige seeds).

The Hawaiian woodrose is about as tall as the one you described, big fuzzy seeds.

I think that they are two different plants altogether. Will take a photo of both of mine to compare.. Maybe I am growing something else..lolol

Will post them later, let me know what you think.

Raydio,

Do you have a photo of yours? Hopefully we can match them up.

Here are a series of photos from today.. these are supposedly three different strains of it.. I ordered all three to make sure that the seeds/plants were the same.

This is one of Argyreia Nervosa seeds:

These are the plants.. from each strain. Now, the one in the middle did have five plants, but they did not make it through the winter this year. The other two strains did. Well, at least one in one pot did, and three in the other pot.

This is a close-up of the leaves.. note: the packages do say Hawaiian Baby Woodrose.

Now, I took a photo of this one for a reason.. trying to remember the reason is another story...lolol.. oh yes, the photo shows the label on the top of the pamphlet that came with the seeds. It says "Argyreia Nervosa (pacific) which is Pacific Strain. Each one came with the same info/pamphlet saying which strain it was, although each baggie contains which strain is which.


edited to add this site: it has good photos of this plant

http://www.erowid.org/plants/hbw/hbw_images.shtml

This message was edited Sep 19, 2005 2:27 PM

Now, to add to my confusion. These photos are of Hawaiian Woodrose Ipomoea.

These are the seeds, most of the seeds I ordered, but I did trade for some, mostly because I thought I was not getting the right seeds.

These are the leaves for the Ipomoea Hawaiian Woodrose, for lack of a better id.

Here it is entwined with other snail vines and things.. going up, up, up.. hasn't bloomed yet. This is the 2nd year I think. I may be losing track of the years too.

In my opinion, these are getting harder to ID for me, then we still have not gotten into the Merremias..


edited to add: This is Merremia tuberosa also a Hawaiian woodrose according to the site up there.

This message was edited Sep 19, 2005 2:29 PM

raydio - I really think it has more to do with a number of environmental conditions other than just age and size...the plants from seeds that originated from hot and humid areas with alot(!) of sun,seem to like the same,but seeds from the drier areas of India,seem to fare better in less humid conditions...I do not have a long enough growing season here in the NW corner of NJ to properly grow Argyreia nervosa here and expect it to bloom...maybe if I had it growing in a greenhouse,that would make the difference...
The only plants that I know of that were grown outdoors in the contiguous US States that flowered were grown in California,Arizona,New Mexico and the Gulf area...I have heard of other plants flowering in greenhouses...
Similar to the Merremia tuberosa,known by the common name of "Hawaiian Woodrose", the "Baby Hawaiian Woodrose" would usually need to achieve a maturity of at least 2 years,like many other perennial species...

rylaff - Hi LIsa(!)...nice going(!),you got them to sprout and you are in a nice hot and humid zone...WOW(!)...15 feet tall,you've got a major(!) head start on Everybody else...

Gourd - Good going (!)...you got plants(!) from seed,which is a very good start considering that alot of people have difficulty even getting the seeds to sprout...
The plants you are showing with the large heart shaped leaves look like they are the Argyreia,very closely related to the genus Stictocardia...the plant that you posted with the 7 to 9 lobes looks like the Large Hawaiian Woodrose...Merremia tuberosa...did you start these from the large brown to black fuzzy seeds(?)...
The seeds you are showing here
http://davesgarden.com/forums/fp.php?pid=1769594
are the Merremia tuberosa"Hawaiian Woodrose" or "Large Hawaiian Woosrose"...these are often mis-identified as an Ipomoea,but I assure you they are properly Merremia's as the pollen is smooth when viewed under a microscope...

Here is a webpage related to the different appearence of seeds that are suppossed to be Argyreia nervosa with particular emphasis on 'Baby Hawaiian Woodrose'...
http://www.jlhudsonseeds.net/ArgyreiaID.htm
I have found that although JLHudson offers a wonderful variety of seeds from all over the world,I have found that they often use outmoded terms for various Convolvulaceae and I do not agree with all of their conclusions and perspective stated or implied about the 'Baby Hawaiian Woodrose'

Although the page seems to be concerned with correctly identifying Argyreie nervosa by the various features of the seeds,there is in fact an undue emphasis on the identification of 'Baby Hawaiian Woodrose'...as if(!) the only true(!) Argyreia nervosa is defined(!) by the common term of "Baby Hawaiian Woodrose"...I think this is a misleading page,although there are some photos of some value in showing the species that are obviously NOT any type of Convolvulaceae at all...
I respect the intentions of the people at JL Hudson,but they have expressed opinions that the seeds of the 'other' Argyreias to be of the 'Thyella' genera, which is a term that has not been used for a 'long time'...and I personally think the page they have on identification of Argyreia nervosa to be of very questionable value...



I was 'contacted' by some people who shall remain unamed,who were commercial seed suppliers,who were interested to know if I could obtain 'real' Argyreia nervosa,as they were used to selling many kilos of A.nervosa per year and their usual sources could no longer supply the 'real thing'...there was an undue emphasis on seeds of Hawaiian origin...I related my opinion on the characteristics of the seeds,as well as I know them,and that I did not believe that seeds from India or Elsewhere that were in fact Argyreia nervosa would be substantially different as per alkaloid content,not to a chemists(!) point of view anyway,but the alkaloids may differ in structure 'enough' to make a difference in the affect on a human if ingested...I did know where there was Argyreia nervosa,but not of confirmed 'Hawaiian' origin,so,I was politely thanked for my time and opinion and that was that...

The plant Argyreia nervosa is believed to have originated in Asia,perhaps India or the Indian Ocean area,but there is no historical evidence that the plant originated on the relatively small Hawaiian Islands...the term "Baby Hawaiian Woodrose" seems to have enjoyed alot of popular appeal amongst people interested to use the seeds for ingestion,as the term conjures up imagery of a pleasant tropical setting and I'll leave the 'baby' part to those more deeply interested in Freudian analysis...
So,there seems to be an unusually large interest in seeds of 'Genuine' Hawaiian Origin...

Argyreia nervosa is present all over Asia and many oceanic tropical beach areas...I honestly think the interest in seeds of 'genuine' Hawaiian origin to be a popular myth that is overplayed for what it's worth...I am skeptical that the plants ergoline related alkaloids would even be substantially altered as the plant uses the LSA and related alkaloids as growth hormones to produce new plant tissue,but these type alkaloids are especially concentrated in the seeds...


The Convolvulacea are divided into 2 main sub-families:

Psiloconiae - subfamily that has pollen with a smooth-surface,

and

Echinoconiae. - subfamily that has pollen with a spiny surface

Convolvulaceae has been classified into the groups

Echinoconeae - spiny pollen

and

Psiloconeae - smooth pollen...comparatively....

Convolvulaceae is further classified into tribes
Argyreieae, Convolvuleae, Cresseae, Dichondreae, Erycibeae, Hildebrandtieae,Merremieae (aka Merremioids) , Ipomoeeae, and Poraneae.


Convolvulaceae has been even further classified according to various criteria, including the micro surface morphology of the pollen grains,the pistil lobing and related morphology, the manner of dehiscence of the seed capsules and the chromosome number...but the pollen feature as to whether it is psilate = smooth,or echinate = spiny ,is increasingly being recognized as a major categorizational feature which has been supported by recent advanced genetic analysis...
So,the regular "Hawaiian Woodrose" aka "Large Hawaiian Woodrose" is definitely a Merremia,because of the psilate pollen characteristic...
I hope this informatiom will prove to be of value to those people interested to know more about the main categories of Convolvulaceae botanical classification...


Plant Hormones can be used to force plants to flower,but I will not recommend the use of these hormones as they can be toxic in small amounts,absorbed easily through the skin and mucous membranes...and are carcinogenic...

Continue to Enjoy growing and learning with all the Morning Glories(!)

TTY'all ...





This message was edited Feb 7, 2006 9:04 AM

Gourd~I don't have a digicam, will try to borrow one. But they look just the same as yours: large felted heart-shaped leaves, stout, stiff stem. I had been wondering if the light yellow-green of the leaves was normal or a result of conditions, but I see that yours are the same color, so I'm thinking mine is ok.

WillowWasp~I think my seeds came from Banana-Tree and they sprouted very quickly. No special treatment, though I did soak them first. However, I only had one of five to survive. Not sure what the cause was: infertile seed, overwatering, drying out etc.(Just don't recall details). But, I have since learned that oversoaking can be deadly to many Ipomoeas, as well as starting in too peaty a base (holds too much moisture). Also, I may have had mine in to hot a location (too much direct sun). I didn't start them in spring until the weather was quite warm and settled. If there was a dip below 65 degrees F, I took them in.

In winter, I have them in a south-facing window. Growth is slower, but it doesn't seem to be a true complete dormancy. (The growth seem to be on the slow side anyway....)

Here in NC piedmont, we have high humidity in summer and heat to spare and a fairly long growing season. Tropicals seem to do well as do desert cacti.

rylaff~ (Hi!) Have you had blooms on your HBW?
ron_con~ Thanks for sharing the detailed info. You amaze me!

raydio. (Robert)

Ron,
Thank you for that information. It really helps me with my understanding of it all, last year it was very confusing for me trying to remember all the JP MGS, the regular MGs, and then these.


Robert,
I checked the labels and noticed that I sowed them in June of 2004, so they are just over a year old now. Hope they make through the winter this year. I did see a photo of an older vine somewhere in the web and it looks likea woody, sparcely leafed vine. Will try to find the photo of it.

Dee,
Let me know if you would like some seeds. As you can see, lolol... i have some different strains.

Still no blooms on my HBW. Growing well and some of the vines have grown up the house and into the gutters.

I've taken my A. nervosa in and now it's suddenly having a growth spurt.
It has added about eight or so inches in two weeks.

I just don't get it.

raydio.

adding more to this post.
My plant has officially become a vine. Before it was a short stoutly stemmed mini-tree. Now it is 36" long and counting, and the stem is flexible and twines around whatever it can.

This message was edited Oct 27, 2005 11:44 PM

Mine only grew about three inches all summer. I think mine need bigger pots. They are in one gallon containers now. Don't know if I should risk transplanting them at this time, although it is not that cold during the day, it gets cold at night.

Good going there raydio. Let me know if you are ever interested in trading seeds for other vines, can send you a list.

Antoinette

It had to be done.....I pruned back my vine as I only have one south-facing window for plants and the darn thing just kept going. I hated to do it, but it was taller than the window and started lolling about (that's *my* job!) and getting in the way of other plants I didn't want to risk damaging. O well.

So now it's about a foot tall and has sent out a new leader and some of the side buds are beginning to break.

Antoinette~
I'll let you know if I see any seed next year.

Robert.

I had a H. B. Woodrose in a 5 gal bucket that grew really well.
The second year it covered about 100 square feet area (10'X10') on side of house with heart shaped leaves almost a foot across.
The first winter, I used a plastic mesh trellis on the inside of a window, it lost a lot of leaves, and the ones that grew were small.
The next summer, outside again, it grew well but never bloomed.
Last winter I put in an unused bedroom that stayed about 55 F. with little water all winter. It must have been too cool as it never came back well this spring and eventually died.
Even without blooms, the foliage is magnificent. People would always ask what it was. This was A. nervosa I got from a Shamanshop that said it was fresh seed from that year. I had about 50% fertility from the seed. The leaves are "sticky" even when dry.
I cannot remember the online store where I got it or I would try again.

This is the only picture I could find. I had taken a picture of neighbor girl with Nervosa in background. Its hard to get an idea of size but she was standing about 2 feet in front of leaves and they were big!

Sorry, I'm new at this and am having trouble with loading picture.

spacewarp,
So far, mine are hanging in there. We'll what happens this winter. I did leave them outside all year, in a semi-protected area. I probably got my seeds from the same Shaman place. Your photo did not come thru.

A.

We must have been typing at the same time.. They sure are big leaves..