Is The Internet Dumbing Us Down?

Back before I was tuned in/on to the internet (I was a late comer - wasn't online until 1997 - believe it or not), all info required to start a new project was gleaned from books or personal experience. Even after I got into the internet, I was fully able to do my own websearching.

Is it just my age that finds me increasingly annoyed at those folks who embark upon a project & expect the rest of the world to automatically do their research & supply them with the necessary info?

Time & time again on the several websites I'm a member of I come across queries like: "I've Decided to Buy (chickens, geese, goats, gorillas - fill in the blank). Please tell me how to raise, house, feed, medicate them." Or - "I've Decided To Grow Herbs - Please tell me what to grow, how to grow it, & how to use it."

What the heck happened to checking out some BOOKS, or checking out some local folks in your own neighborhood, or simply punching in a web search yourself??? Have we really become this lazy???

And I'm not talking about folks who are just looking for personal experience information - there's certainly nothing wrong with that. But if you're embarking on a new venture, please don't expect to sit back in your chair & let the community at large to do your work for you.

Am I just getting grumpy, or does anyone else feel the same way?

Amen, breezy! I agree that there are lots of lazy folks out there who don't want to do any of their own homework....but on the other hand, there are folks like me that do a bit of research, then go out and get the thing, and then have a problem and ask for help! :-)

I figure there must also be a lot of folks out there who have lots of time and nothing to do so they don't mind doing the research for the lazy people- or they wouldn't answer such vague questions.

Yes, it is conceivable that as some folks get older they may get a little grumpy- certainly not anyone we know!!

Oh believe me - "problems" are an entirely different story.

My gripe is with the folks who obviously don't even bother to do the remotest sort of research for it.

I've read web questions such as: "I just bought a dairy goat - how do I milk it?"; "I want to grow herbs - what do I grow & how do I grow it"; "I just bought & recieved 25 day-old chicks - how do I raise/feed them?"

Sorry - but this sort of stuff drives me absolutely crackers!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's sometimes hard to know where to start looking. You might say the library or google etc but actually that's all a bit pat especially when you know where to look and what to look for but the other person may be completely new to it. I set up a business a while ago now and the information available for business start ups is overwhelming. Without anyone to help I tried to sift through the initial phase information myself and ended up having to go and see the county enterprise agency somewhat frustrated by my lack of success. It wasn't instant clarity but I was pointed in a more consise area. Without that I'd still be employed by someone else.

I like to think of the internet as a sort of extended community where someone who knows is more likely to be found than in my local area. We all need to start somewhere.

I know there are people who expect to know thing instantly and when they find it doesn't work like that they ask someone to explain the entire world to them in one simple paragraph. My R.E. teacher treated answering those kind of questions as breast feeding teaching and that wasn't his job, he would tell us. My mother also still tells us to go and get a dictionary if we don't understand a word LOL.

This message was edited Sep 13, 2005 10:53 PM

Breezy, I agree that many people want instant answers.

Now, if they posted a question such as "I'm starting on such and such, where's the best place for me to get information"? that would show that they were willing to do the investigative work.

It goes along with 'instant gratification' I suppose.

Joan

Breezy,
I know what you mean. I have seen questions that lend themselves so obviously to an internet search or a search within DG. To give the benefit of the doubt, I have at times seen threads in Dg and then go back and can't find them, so have to ask a "dumb" question. Most of the time i get sent a link very quickly with answers. So....another dumb question I've been hesitant to ask: Is there a way to bookmark important threads inside DG? Haven't figured out how to do this, so have been bookmarking in my browser.

Exactly Joan, exactly.

What kills me are the people who have already purchased the animals & are then posting for everyone to jump on in & teach them how to take care of them.

The ultimate burners for me are those folks who post looking for info so they can make fast $$$ from the milk/eggs/whatever without even knowing anything about the animals to begin with.

stownes ~ NOT a dumb question at all.

DG is a huge forum and I often have problems finding what I want. It has been a slow process learning about DG's forum, often-times asking 'dumb' questions.

Joan, still learning ;•)

Please don't get me wrong here people.

I'm more than more willing to help garden/livestock people out with questions. It's just the "I wanna do without any work" people that shut me down.

Breezy,
I agree with you - there are people out here who want fresh eggs from chickens but don't want to clean out the coop. They want to raise animals but don't want to touch or smell them. Just like gardening - you don't get results without getting your hands dirty.

breezy, you amuse me in a good way! I get annoyed like you sometimes, but remember, for every person that won't get up and look up whatever for themselves, that is another just too happy to tell you what to do, when to do it, how, why, ad infinitum. hmm.... I can think of at least two immediate relatives of mine that fall in that category. nuff said.

I know people who do plenty of research, but aren't confident enough in their own knowledge (or maybe it doesn’t make sense to them.) Instead of asking specific questions they say "I've Decided to Buy...,” and come across like they don't know anything. If you think they are "lazy,” ask a few questions first. If you find out they are truly being "lazy," you have the option of not answering.

Jody

LOL vossner! Yes, we know people like that, too!

I always find myself looking things up. I'm the kind of person that can't stand having an unanswered question. I've been known to e-mail friends at two in the morning sending them information on our dinner conversation questions (such as how you steer hot air balloons!).

But at the same time, it's easy to find great detailed information online-- you feel like quite the expert sometimes--and then find out you're clueless when you actually go to do it!! DG is full of helpful people who can clarify all those silly and sometimes very basic questions you still have even after you've done the research. :) And for that I'm very thankful!!

Jasmerr, our posts crossed, and I think you were talking about the same thing I was. Not that I'm not confident in my knowledge, but that sometimes the great websites were aimed toward a totally different type of climate, or that they skip steps (that would be obvious to someone more experienced, but not to the newbie!), etc. I think I'm good about asking specific questions when I have them, but I understand the feeling of being overwhelmed with "vague" information and feeling so lost when I try to apply it! I'm sure I'm not the only one who experiences this. :)

I get lots of info from the www, but there's nothing quite like having books on gardening, raising animals, or any other 'how to-s'.

~~ Get to know your library ~~

laff . . . Joan

danak ~ and just how much can you trust the info that you get from the www?

Looking up medical info, for instance. I'm mighty careful with that one.

Joan

Yeah, as a long time member of DG I often get annoyed at newbies who have not tried our search engine on a topic... but I get more annoyed at those who have a computer and can ask a question on DG but cannot figure how to use Google, or some search engine.

I'm glad someone finally feels the same way I do..I thought maybe I just thought people were dumb about searches, lol.. What's the big deal? type in the info and read , read, read, tons of info right at their finger tips..I agree, asking for personal experience is a different matter..Any half smart person can conduct a decent search....Also, about the animals, please do all the research and then get the poor innocent creatures, lol..they depend on us..

Larkie

Books are the greatest! Yes, and when searching online, I often like to limit searches to university websites. I know I can trust those! And I also trust the people on DG. :)

I just think it's funny when people ask things they could search for in Google. (So many people are really computer illiterate.) At least it's easy to be the one to "come to the rescue" and give them the great answer!!

I agree about people not wanting to do their own homework. I've spent hours researching who knows how many different things on the web. Sometimes it is hard to find the answer you want. When I run across folks with such questions I usually point them to a website, rather than try to answer their questions. All they have to do is read...and that only takes a little time if you provide them the site.

What bugs me is when I ask a question that is about personal experience and no one answers. I'm a newbie, but add whatever input I can whenever I can help. Everyone here is great, I just don't get why no one bothers to answer sometimes?? And I don't buy anything w/out researching it first to know what I'm getting into! LOL I would LOVE for anyone to answer my questions w/ a web link so I can read the answers!!

I think as far as people wanting all their answers handed to them...that's no way to learn anything! Anything worth having is worth working for, and that includes the knowledge in your head...if you consider combing the web working.

Chuckle. Okay, I'm not turning y'all loose on our helpdesk. You'd probably be amazed at the number of people who somehow manage to arrive at our site, but then can't/won't do any further research. Instead, they want Dave to answer their questions on how to find/plant/save/eradicate a plant. (And some of them get downright miffed when they're told we can't and won't give free one-on-one hort advice.)

I think the funniest one yet came just the other day - a lady wanted us to advise her on the variety of lemon tree she should plant in her garden, and also wanted us to send someone out to plant it for her. (And no, she didn't think she had reached a nursery - from the tone of her note, I gather she knew she had reached a gardening website. She wanted brains and brawn to recommend, locate and plant her tree for her - for free, if possible.) I recommended that she contact a local nursery for assistance - and I forwarned her they would probably charge a fee to deliver and plant the tree for her ;o)

It keeps things interesting, for sure!

ROTFL

When someone finds that free service please let me know, I want it too!

If I can quickly answer a question, I try. If it is something that is going to take a little time,
there are two things that I tend to check - now three - here on DG before I spend any time on answers: how long the person has been a member, what other threads they've started and now, their subscriber status and is it long term or trial.(Oh, shoot, got to get that taken care of!)

I DO know a lot of stuff about a lot of stuff, and if I can share, all to the good. But I'm not planting any lemon trees! I suspect that more times than not, I recommend a book with the info, or a site that can be helpful. One of my SILs says we have more reference books than anyone else he knows - and NONE of them are encyclopedias. We're not looking for sound bites here, we want the real dope!

editted to say: there was a time when I would have done my best to plant the lemon tree - lol, i'm learning!!!

This message was edited Sep 14, 2005 9:40 AM

I've been online since 1996 and my interest at first was accessing genealogy information. (The joke was on me-- there was hardly anything online regarding genealogy in 1996!)

"Back in the day" you traveled to courthouses and historical societies to do your research. You sat at the library and pored over the census and newspaper microfilms for hours. If you were lucky, you would find someone to correspond with by snail mail and swap information AND DOCUMENTATION regarding the families you were working on.

Now I get emails that say "Just send me everything you have on my family." Or "Do you have your whole database up on a website somewhere so that I can download it?" I took all of my genealogy info offline, and while I do still assist people, I do so with a limited amount of information so that they are (hopefully) motivated to do a little digging on their own. Even so, alot of my family research is all over the internet on the webpages of people that I have NEVER had one instance of contact with. How do they know that the info they tout on their website is correct if they have never contacted me to see what sources the info came from? That's just name collecting, not genealogical research.

Grrr-- can you tell you have hit a nerve? LOL!!

I have asked a few questions to which I truely did not know the answer and couldn't find it in books or online. Owners of garden centers or the state extention service didn't seem to have the answers either. No one even bothered to reply and say they didn't know. I am not dumb or lazy, but I do sometimes have questions that I can't find the answers to on my own. I've learned to keep many questions to myself.

leaflady, That's too bad and I know how you feel.

Sometimes I just go ahead and put the question where I think It will get the best results.

Remember that Admin. does have the option of moving posts to a more suitable place.

Joan ;•)

Leaflady - you shouldn't feel that way. There's no such thing as a dumb question & that's not what I mean at all.

There's a HUGE difference between asking questions - even lots of questions - regardless of how simplistic, & the folks that come out with "I just bought a goat - please tell me what to feed it, how to house it, yadayadayada". These people aren't saying "I've read up on them & am doing this, this, & this, but would like to know what other folks do". They want to sit back & have everyone else scurrying thru books &/or the internet to do their homework for them without them lifting a finger. And this is after they've already acquired the animal - yikes!!!

I remember when I first started on DG, and I still do it I guess maybe to much, but I have been asking a lot of questions. I know they are dumb stupid questions that I could find if I were to start searching a lot through DG. But you know after being here a year now I still have a heck of a time trying to get into the plant files, trying to find a certain plant I want to know about. I consider myself not that much of a dummy when it comes to searching the net. I would personaly like to thank every DG member who has answered any of my question, and helped me out a whole bunch. THANKS

While reading through this forum I found two different members asking a question on how to do something, and I just d-mailed them and told them how I go about doing it. I hope it helps. I myself didn't know how to do until I asked a DG member, and they were so kind as to d-mail me and tell me how to do it.

In this past year I have learned a lot from all the members here at Dave's Garden, and I hope I continue to learn from everyone here, because you do have a lot of information here at DG's to share, considering everyone here continues to share.

Now this is all my own humble opinion.

Linda

Breezy - I understand what you are saying. I, too, get a little "set back" by some of the things I read online. I have, over the years, collected a rather large reference library just so I could look things up, and have used these books often. I now use the internet to fill in the gaps, and that is where I see some of the stuff you're talking about. I feel many people have gotten into the "fast lane" and may have lost the joy of sitting down with a stack of books to search for an exact quote, or how to recane a chair bottom, etc. I confess, I do sometimes use the internet in the interest of time. If I need an exact quote from something that I know I have a copy of, I am well aware of my inability to just check this one poem, how to dry this one herb, or the best way to fix a drain problem - I'll be lucky to put the book away within 6 hours!! Again, its that fast lane thing. Its quicker to google all the answers than to lose yourself in a shelf full of books. Plus the fact that many people do not have as many books as I have. I just love to read!!!

ginni

But even when you're learning how to dry an herb (a recent DG question I posted), you can look it up online and in books and then find eight different ways and then be overwhelmed with options. That's when I post a seemingly simple question on DG to see how people here do it and see what has worked for them. People could have been turned off by that question, I guess, after reading this thread. However, I wasn't expecting other people to do research for me-- in fact, I've had people send me websites in "answer" to my questions before, and sometimes they've been sites I've seen before I posted the questions! What I was looking for was someone who has tried it before and could let me know what has worked best for them. Some people expressed concerns with some of the methods that I may not have thought of on my own. Then I consider those experiences/advice probably the most valuable part of my research.

Personally I doubt that anyone (well, almost anyone) who posts questions here expects other people to do their research for them. I think they're looking for people who can answer by experience. In most cases, from my experience, that's the most valuable information you can get-- and the purpose of these forums!

--Dana

Dana - I agree with you.

Believe me - it's very very easy to see the difference between a poster like you & the poster I was talking about originally.

And I did say that I was talking about several websites I'm a member of - I definitely wasn't targeting DG. In fact, I don't think DG has any representations of the posts I'm talking about.

Whew! This thread had me concerned that somehow I was offending lots of people without even realizing it. I'm glad you can tell I'm not like that. :)

DG is the one place I can depend on for honest "this is what I do, but may be different for you" answers. That is something I highly value. The answers I get here aren't a collection of things that someone read somewhere else. They are answers from people who have actually tried these things. "Online info" quite often, though not awlays, tends to be redundant or conflictive without really answering the question. I am not looking for absolutes, just information about ideas that aren't covered by my library. I think the whole beginning of the thread is "why not try your brain before you go on line". The type questions some people put on line have common sense answers, they just require a little thought. Again, the "fast lane" lifestyle has undermined the good of online info. Its wonderful to have all the information available, but have we lost the joy of deep searching for ourselves, and learning more by that search? I have learned so much during my life about so many things that I just "happened across" in my browsing. Have we lost that? Is looking through more than one resource a lost pleasure? I don't think Breezy or I are trying to "downgrade" internet info. We just lament the lost of desire to do "real" research before jumping into something a person knows nothing about.

Breezy - I don't know that I have been able to explain it very well, but I believe I understand what you are saying. It just doesn't translate into words very well. I guess its sort of like my Grandparents and parents saying (when I ask how to spell a word) look it up in the dictionary! Well, how can I look it up if I can't spell it? I finally figured out how to do it, and there has been no stopping me since! (and I still can't spell worth a d*** but that's laziness, not cause I don't know better!

I think a lot of "info" on the internet should be taken with a grain of salt. Yes, it's a wonderful place to find information on any topic you could think of. But just because you get a result of 25,489 links to the topic you've just done a search for, doesn't mean that all of those will actually give you any reliable information. You STILL have to do a lot of "legwork" to wade through all of those sites and use the stuff between your ears in order to figure out what's good and what should be thrown into "file -13".

I run a web site about a rare childhood genetic syndrome. I am in constant contact with the lead researchers in the field and continually update the site with the latest information available from that research. I know my site gives good reliable information to both families and medical care givers. But I am continually frustrated at the number of emails I get quoting other sources on the internet which give outdated or simply WRONG information....and many of those web sources are actually articles supposedly written by doctors on sites purportedly dedicated to making medical information available to the general public. Because the syndrome is rare, parents who find themselves in the situation that they need to suddenly digest the fact that their child has a "syndrome" and then try to search for information about it, often get to these generic "ask a medical question" sites and end up with completely false information....which can then put their child in increased danger as they won't be getting proper medical treatment. For example, this syndrome carries with it an increased risk for certain childhood tumors. There is a set recommended screening protocol for these children to assure that any and all tumors will be caught in early stages to achieve the best prognosis. The generic "ask a doctor" sites almost consistently give completely incorrect information regarding the syndrome and it's associated tumors....and the screening that they recommend doesn't even come close to what is really needed. So, parents naturally wanting to spare their children an extra needle or two throughout the course of the year, sometimes keep the blinders on and convince themselves that "well, the web site did say that the screening could be done every 6-12 months instead of every 6 weeks and isn't that a whole lot kinder to my baby than all those extra needles?". Then the child ends up with a late stage tumor with a fairly poor prognosis....all because some so-called medical web site decided to dish out pat answers to issues more complex than their MedSchool 101 course could teach them.

My point? Even medical "professionals" on the web can't all be trusted to be giving out correct information. Anyone needing or wanting information on the internet needs to sift through more than one or two sites and one needs to question the source to see if it's really a valid source or not before deciding on what is true and what is nonsense disguised as truth.

Anyone asking "I want a goat...how do I raise, feed, house it?" needs to also understand that just because someone answers him/her in an authoritative tone doesn't mean that person actually has a clue what he/she is talking about. Ask a lazy question, don't be angry if the answer turns around and bites you in the end!

-Julie

Julie - what a wonderful post. Thank you.

And you're absolutely correct. On the goat thread I was using as an example, the person inquiring was given a lot of advice that they immediately took as law. Stuff like "goats never need any sort of shelter", "all goats can survive year-round on scrub & weeds", "goats never require medical attention" - some of it was astounding & really not "expert" at all. All I could picture was a couple of sad-looking goats sitting in a weed patch in the blazing hot sun (or snow) 24/7!

Me too!

Larkie

Julie, that is very well put and thank you. I too have medical questions, mostly about medications that are new to me since an ongoing condition was finally pinned down and named.

I look them up on the web (I have found what seems to me a fairly good Canadian site), quickly get the basics, then that's it. If I need more information, I go to the pharmacy.

Thanks again for your perpective.

Joan

I've found when I've done some initial legwork and am looking for first-hand advice to help me sort the proverbial "wheat from the chaff" it helps to preface my question(s) with a little summarized history of what I've gleaned from my research.

For example, if I've searched for herb drying techniques, but want to know what works best for drying a huge crop of basil, I might ask it like this.

I usually do try to make my questions as specific as possible, rather than just saying "How do you dry herbs??" I looked back at how I asked the question, and (whew!) I did preface it with the background, what I found in the research, and then asked for suggestions:

"Suggestions for Drying Oregano
Today I just picked a big bunch of oregano and I'm going to try drying them for the first time. I've looked a bit online and I think I'll try the following methods: hanging them, hanging them with a paper bag (what's the point of this?), and wrapping them in tulle and putting them in the fridge. I also found the fan/filter method, but I don't have a fan like that, so that method I'll have to try at a later date. Does anyone have any suggestions for me? Any other ways that you like?"

AND, by asking a question in that way, I got the answers I was looking for, and some perspectives I hadn't thought of before-- just the response I was after. And now I have some great dried oregano. :)