What I thought was mite damage, is thrips!!! Neem Oil for those too?
Cheech...if it's not one thing it's your mother!!!
Carol
Thrips
Gee I know not. Did you look at label? I say Yes , why not? I would think they would smother them. Avid is for thrips too, I think.
So the thrips are on the brugs? I hadn't heard of that before.
Thrips are major virus carriers ... eek!
Neem does not get rid of Adult thrips. The soil is where you'll find the eggs and young ones and Neem will take care of them.
I have been looking for you Carol. Just what we need another pest. Neem seems like a good choice from all I am reading.
Try this:
http://www.mda.state.mn.us/biocon/plantscape/thrips.htm
http://www.cambrianursery.com/thrips.htm
We have found a number of ways to control thrip in Cambria California. Neem oil can be sprayed onto the plants. Alternatively, Orthenex garden insect and disease control® spray can be used on ornamentals. It is advisable to spray 2 or 3 times at intervals of 7 to 10 days in order to control Thrips as they hatch.
http://www.optimara.com/doctoroptimara/diagnosis/thrips.html
Neem oil is not a guaranteed cure for adult thrips. That is just one of the reasons why many large scale nurseries do not use it. If I was you I would repot the brug before I treat it and throw the old stuff in the trash can or burn it.
Just for the record, I'm not trying to be bossy or harsh :).
Thrips are not like having a mite problem or a few aphids. Thrips are so much more serious and they are extremely dangerous to your brugs and any plants you have in the same area. Big time bad virus spreaders. The soil is contaminated with them as well as the plants.
Because there are no guarantees with neem oil (the experts do not all agree) I have to say that if it was me, and as much as I dislike chemicals, I would blast the whole area one time with something deadly like malathion first. And get on a neem oil regiment at a later date. Just my humble opinion.
I
Good thinking, Number 9!!
I am calling the Nuclear People at Plant Pathology!!! Will let you know what they say. Repotting is not an options....they are all in the ground!!!
Great idea Carol!
SO - stand by, news at 11.
I am taking a collection of leaves into the Plant Pathologist. He thinks it could be Colenbola (Spring Tails) but leaf damage is thrips and or mites)...will let you know.
Carol
Greenhouse Grower Magazine started reporting two years ago that there are Marrathon resistant thrips from overuse of Marrathon. There is also resistance to Avid as well as certain organophosphate, carbamate, and synthetic pyrethroid insecticides reported. Several Universities recommend an IGR type insecticide(which many times is derived from Neem oil) plus an insecticide and spray on 5 day intervals instead of 7 and rotate classes of chemical insecticides.
Here's a link http://floriculture.osu.edu/archive/mar97/thrips.html
This message was edited Aug 3, 2005 4:24 PM
Monika's book says that Imidacloprid works for thrips. I found lots of good info about it. Mostly Bayer!
This is one site that I found interesting that is about Merit.
http://www.rosemania.com/Pesticide_update.htm
Is it 11 yet? lol!
Somewhere it must be 11!!! OK, just got back. I have mites (AGAIN) in SPADES!!! Both Carmine Spider Mites and Broad Mites. Brian (my hero :>)) and I have worked up a plan: Tomorrow DH will help me strip off the big leaves from ALL of my Brugs planted out on the road, carefully putting the leaves in a plastic bag and BURNING it at the end. Then I will spray with Avid and an ovicide I have (Hexagon) (I only have 1/2 a teas. so I am limited to 4 gals). After that, we will wash our clothes AND shower. Mites can be transferred from plant to plant on our clothes and hands!!! UCK...do I itch from writing this!!!
I will repeat this spraying every 5 days (NOT permitted usage of the product but shhhhhhh, don't say anything) 3 times to kill the buggers. After that, a spray with a wettable sulpher every couple of weeks will have them in control. We will see! My little seedlings I will cut the tops off as some of them are just a mess!!!! If they don't survive...too bad..."I have spoken"!
I am seriously considering just keeping the resistant ones...life is too short!!!. He said to even do those not "apparently" affected...
And tomorrow I was going to spend the day reading novels and eating French Chocolates...or is it eating chocolates and reading French novels. Whatever...I am not doing it!!
BTW...One of my dark yellow/gold flowered Brugmansias has about 10 pods ripening...some daliances going on in the garden while I sleep, no doubt! If anyone wants them...I will put their names on them...could be just about any pollinator as everything was in bloom about that time!!!
psssssst - throw a dog a bone here Queen Aloha. :)
The combination of heat, seabreeze, exotic fragrances and colors over there... 'daliances' was about all I could think of when the sun set.
Carol, I have Avid if you need more. That sounds like a horrible mess, but I'm so glad there is a solution, although, oh so drastic. But, they will leaf right back out and hopefully the bugs will be history!! Good luck!!!
So no thrips?? Are you thripless in Hawaii??
When I only had a few brugs I never had a mite in my yard. Never. I didn't even know what they were. I really think having so many brugs brings on all sorts of problems. I sure hope your broad mites are not already resistant to Avid. Here in California, lots of our mites are already resistent I read. I know Avid doesn't help me much if at all.
GOOD LUCK CAROL!!! Kill them dead.
Yes....HAHAHA Thripless in Hawaii - at least on the Brugs.
Before Brugs I NEVER/EVER/NUNCA/NOHOW even considered Mites as a problem. Now it is a current obsession. Cheech...they are AWful! Talked to a nurseryman this eve. and he doesn't grow brugs but is having a BAD problem with mites.
BTW...B.E.I. here (Brewer Environmental International) stopped carrying Hexagon as their Ovicide and is now carrying Ovation...because it is less expensive (only $285.00 for the smallest size....gag). I did buy 8oz of Avid today...almost had to take out a Mortgage....but it does work when used with an Ovicide AND in a schedule (IhopeIhopeI hope and have been told).
Just thinking about the job tomorrow makes me itch!!!
OH yes...and Imidocloprid for the Cats....bless them to show up just when I didn't want to deal with them.
I know...I sound like I am complaining (I am)...but it is so fun to share all of this with you all...no one around here can fathom it....except my dog and she is most sympathetic!!!
Funny you mention Hexagon. I just found a great online source for all the insecticides. They had Hexagon too. And Avid I think was cheaper than Rosemania. On Ebay. Mostly was looking for the rose systemic to use that didn't have the fertilizer in it.
This message was edited Aug 4, 2005 7:29 AM
This is just a baby but get more party animals like this in the yard and when it comes to spray 'Fuhhhhhgettta bout it'
(Sugarweed's pic from her early morning visit)
Beautiful critter picture!
Carol I am so glad everything turned out ok for you! It was a good heads up for all of us! There is no telling how many of us have had thrips on our brugs and never knew it. Maybe that is why some of our brugs die mysterious deaths .... and maybe not.
I hope that if someone that does get thrips they will show us pictures of the damage they do.
Blaine, do they eat mites and cucumber beetles?
I use ovation in combination with avid and I can say it works very well. Read the label though, I think that you can only use Ovation once in a growing season. You should also consider purchasing a different miticide as well. Overuse of one chemical class can eventually cause resistance. I would recommend Floramite as another great miticide. My 2 cents.
Jeremiah
The only thing they don't eat are Lady Bugs. Now is that a win-win situation or what? As they mature I don't know if they'd dawdle with mites. :(
There's a thread in another forum with some really cool shots of the mantis. I think it's montereyca posting. Really cool!
Thanks Blaine. Have you had the dreaded mites yet? I would be interested in knowing how they control them. I would love to go chemical free. I mostly use Neem but I hate even spraying that as I get more on me than on my plants.
Jeremiah, I have not really heard about Ovation before. Is it new? Do the bugs build a resistance that fast or is it just so strong you can only use it once a season?
Imidicloprid is the active ingredient in Marrathon.
Jeremiah, Ovation is great. That's the bright pink one isn't it? Kell would like that color, lol.
LOL Susie, I might just have to get one then!! I flooded you with emails on fungicides in the middle of the night, Susie. I need help. LOL More than my usual.
yes Kell.. just before I finally started moving stuff out of the hoop house, the ones in the back corner closest to the space heater got them pretty bad. Then they started to move to some others and it was sick the way I'd go in and see what looked like red rust dripping from the top leaf tips. I got the good ones out quick and started hosing everything left in the HH with water to raise humidity. Somewhere I heard low humidity is a starting cause and it made since since the original targets were in a corner closest to the space heater and getting the least water. I also got a spray bottle of something off the local shelf.
One Dr.S and HG were the worst and really ratty. They're the ones I thought were goners and planted in the compost pile but came back. I've not had any problems with them since everything moved outside.
8ft, most mites love hot and dry. Spraying with water daily(and even moving the plant into the shade if possible) will greatly reduce the mite population.
Weeeeeeelllllll We average about 60% humidity when the sun is shining and the trades are blowing...it rains EVERY night (except in droughts but it has rained every night for the past 2 months and often well into mid morning) and the mites are rampant!!! Even covering the tops of leaves on one Brug. I wish I could agree with you Cala, and I was hoping that when the rains came the mites would disappear!!!
Kell, thanks for the tip on Hexagon on Ebay....going there!
I am going to be known as the "lady with the nekkid Brugs".....
Do I need to strip the flowers too?....OH, woe is me!!!!
Ahhh, thanks. I wonder if setting open containers of water or running somekind of little fountain in the HH next spring would help?
Maybe setting up a watering system that shoots from the bottom>UP would work?
Carol, that's what I was thinking!
LOL. I read that broad mites like it humid, spider like it dry. Well I have both at the same time. So I give no credence to any of that!! LOL. I think they just like me. However, I did read that people who force feed high nitrogen to get lots of new green growth, have a sign out to mites, come eat me!! Now, I may believe that! LOL
Brugacide here today! On the Plant Pathologists' recommendation, I stripped as much as I could from the plants....flowers/buds (yes, even the teenyweeny buds) and even cut tips off. KILLED me to do it. I even stripped those no affected (YET). Tomorrow I spray.
Carol
(I won't be going on walks for a while...can't stand the sight of those bare stalks!!!)
you one big Kahuna! I couldn't have done it.
That is so sad! So much work to do, and no flowers to spur you on! I sure wish you luck Carol. We go through so much for these beauties.....
Carol, head up, and hit a strong cadence, and march on through it, you are tough and so are your brugs, all you can do is the best you can do, and I bet it works out better than you ever dreamed!!! Thinking of you with best wishes and good luck!!!
Kell - Ovation has been on the market for at least two seasons. i don't know the exact reason the once per season is on the label but I have always followed it. I only use it when the mites are terrible and when combined with avid it does the trick. Floramite is also a great product that really knocks them down quick.
Good luck Carol. i hope your problem gets better.
Jeremiah
OH...I forgot to mention: Broad Mites LOVE living in the calyxes and tiny leaf axils....that's why I had to (be still my heart) murder all of the teeny tiny buds and leaves. Took 2 1/2 hours with a local kid picking up and raking all the debris, in plastic bags to burn. We then came back, took our clothes off without sauntering around the garden and took showers (not together...he is only 14...he went home ). The PP warned me about contaminating other plants with mites carries on clothing!!!
I can only think of the beauty to come. 3 unknowns were about to bloom! ARGHHHHHHH
Too sad!! I hope they are gone now from you for good.
Thanks Jeremiah. Ovation is new to me. I read that Floramite won't touch broad mites though. They hate us. I have to spray Neem today then I hope I am done too for a long while!! I got a new sprayer, so I hope it goes fast.