Learning how to cross pollinate- Brug breeding 101

I am not new to brugs by any means but i have never tried to cross pollinate any of my brugs. Could someone give me the basics. I think it would be a thrill to develop something of my own breeding. I know every cross is really a crapshoot as to what you are going to get but I have seen some of what you guys have produced at home in your backyards and I am impressed. You don't need a degree in horticulture to bring some real beauties into the brug community. So how about giving me the brug breeding 101 course. Thanks.

I sent you a great link. It is easy!!! And it is fun!!!! And you do not have to wait that long to see what you have made.

Most importantly I would consider which brugs should be crossed.

Wasting one or two years of your time doing OLD crosses that have been done thousands of times.

There are OLD crosses that almost guarantee some color BUT would look like dozens of other lookalikes , so what would be the purpose?

If you have a field of pink brugs and you can't tell them apart unless you look at the name tag is a waste of space IMO.

Choose your parents by what traits you want to improve on and do your homework on the pedigree of proposed parents.

There are a bazillion things to consider .

Doubles make better mommas than they are donors.

...... ditto what Scooterbug said!
If you heed those words of wisdom you are sure to create something very special of your very own. And the wait will be soooo much more worth your efforts.
Looking forward to your future babies!

I went out this morning and I have seedlings blooming, they're all pink! They look so much alike. I never thought I'd get tired of pink, lol.

I'm at the "when do you pick the pollen and when do you pollenate the stigma" stage. But for future references, what sources are available to find out what has been done, what are great possiblilties and what can't be done. I have both Monika's and Pressel's books.
Veronica

We need a pic, Susie. Or I should I say I need a pic. LOL. So I guess you are saying poor you, ADP! LOL I remember when we would all cringe at all the whites. I think we need a new color, like green or turquoise. LOL

I have a slightly different take than Shirley and Vicki, Xeriscape8321. Just from my own point of view, I figure we all have to start somewhere and not all of us have the newer brugs to cross or even know what the old crosses are that have been done. I guess I am just not a serious hybridizer but a amateur just trying to have some fun. There are so many look a likes now and so many people doing crosses from their backyards, the genie is already out of that bottle. And no way is it ever going to be put back in.

I personally see no harm in playing in your backyard like so many others do. A very small few will graduate from that into a serious hybridizer. My first year growing seedlings I grew other people's seeds and they ended up all white suavs. I had fun. I learned a lot. It served a purpose! And mostly I learned not to grow so many white suavs again. LOL

So I say jump right in if you want to and do the best you can with what brugs you have at hand and with what knowledge you have gleaned so far. Next year you are bound to do much better and have learned so much more! I know I improve every year. Just do not be afraid to try! And enjoy!! It is learning curve and can takes years to absorb all the knowledge out there.

GOOD LUCK!! And remember we need pictures. LOL

There's nothing wrong about hybridizing in your own backyard and crossing anything you want to cross. But there is also nothing wrong about teaching new people to take pride in their work from day one is there? If a person wants to learn they should be encouraged to spend the extra effort to really consider their crosses and to strive for something really special. Something that people will remember for a very long time.

Kell, did you send him that link I gave you?

Did you give me a link Karrie? LOL. I sent him a link you posted once. Oh yes, you did send it to me too. LOL

Gee Vicki, mine weren't fighting words. Sorry if you thought they were. I just am more casual than you are. For me the first years are about learning the process, not perfecting the cross. But then I am no brug expert like you are. It takes me awhile. My message is to go for it, have fun. Don't be afraid to experiment. They are just plants. And if you end up with all white suavs, that is OK too!! You learn a lot on the way.

Also it is hard for new people to have the brugs to make different crosses. Takes time to acquire the knowlegde and the brugs to make the special crosses. In the meantime, you can learn how to pollinate, how to keep a pod going, to harvest and how to germinate and grow seedlings. Then by the time you have acquired all the knowledge about crosses you need and the genes a special and unique brug takes, and you are ready to create that very special brug, you have the basics down and will not kill that special seedling or have your pollination not take.

I am so glad you are here, Vicki. Your expertise and perspective I am sure will be so appreciated on this forum. We always need teachers here! WELCOME again!!

Veronica, that is OK. I am at the stage where I put pink pollen on everything and I may never advance. LOL

Here are some great threads. Susie was the one that taught me the basics. Her pictures were just so helpful. I find the best teacher is just going out there and doing it. It really is easy and it really is fun. And when you get that first pod you will be so thrilled no matter what the cross is.

http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/362575/

and

http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/362576/

"Gee Vicki, mine weren't fighting words"
That is good news Kell.

Most definitely a person can learn by crossing everything with everything. Hybidizing is so much fun and it's so easy. I've slopped pollen the same as others. I enjoyed it. There was a day when all we had was frosty pink and white lookalikes. Then came whiskers and everything was yellow for awhile. Now everything resembles Lamour and Butterfly and Rosamond. Why repeat and repeat the same old stuff? The brugmansia names list exceeds 900 by now and how many of those new 2000-2004 names do you ever hear about anymore? Quite a few of them are dead lol!
I do not and have never considered myself to be a serious hybridizer. I love the evaluations part of hybridizing. I'd much rather trial and evaluate someone elses baby. That is something I take seriously.

I can't wait to see a true purple brugmansia, lol!

Kell,
Thank you for the links. That last one answered many of my questions.

WOW!! So many people relplying I am shocked. I am fairly new to Daves Garden. I signed up but wasn't able to use the forums like I wanted so now I am a full fledged member. I NEVER expected such a response from a posting. So many valued opinions and sooo much good information by way of links. I want to thank everyone for taking the time to help me ease my way into this field of pollination. I do agree that the world has too many look-alike pinks. Personally I like the yellows and oranges. Of course the doubles are always ones to marvel at as well. Some of the new dark pinks which are bordering on that true red we are seeking are amazing as well. One of my favorite brugs is Super Nova. I think I'll play with her and maybe a double peach I have which is unnamed but dark enough to warrant a try. We will have to see. The sky's the limit and i want to fly.................

Go for it! I have a Super Nova. ;-)

**drooling** over the thought of owning a 'super nova' and what a great one to start off with too. Let us know of your progress. The first one I just tried to pollinate was in my first year here at DG. I wasn't trying to get the anything special or name it, but I did try and took the best one's and pollinated my strongest one with one of the unnamed one's ( lol many are unnamed in my yard ) and I got a pod!!! It was exciting for me :-) I sent out some seeds to different people who would just have fun growing them out, trying their hand at the process who were over joyed at just being afforded the opportunity. So far, Blaine (8ftbed) has posted pics of the one's he calls the 8P crew and looks like it's getting to the point it will open soon. I am deeeeeeeeeee-lighted!! Anyhow, it's going to be fun to watch and see. I know you'll have fun doing it whatever the crosses you choose to pollinate. Have fun!

I had to go look at her and here is a pic I found (Abiliton-Alice)...it's an older thread but it's a beautiful one. Take a peek :-) It's just the first one that came up in the search feature and boy is it pretty. Now on my 'wish list' :-) White is so refreshing and reminds me of clean linens...hey...hmmm wonder if it smells like a dryer sheet? YUM!

http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/362304/

Hugs
Julie

P.S. Nice to meet ya!

This message was edited Aug 2, 2005 6:24 AM

I have a question re pollinating..creating new Burg hybrids. Can you register a Brug that has an unknown as a parent? (I have been wondering this for some time)

All it takes is one known parent.

OK Vee8ch. Thank you. I have never even tried to pollinate a brug yet but was wondering how that went. :)

Yes, that is correct, Vee8ch is right, only one known parent. I wonder how many GREAT crosses come from that? Anyone out there have one that had an unk. parent with a known one and what it's name was so we can look her up? Enquiring minds want to know.

BettyDee you should be able to find a great source of information about crosses from the International Society for Horticultural Science website. The ICRA's for every genera of plants imaginable are the record keepers of this kind of information. They are there to help you with questions like this.

In in the "try it 'cause it's fun" camp. We aren't dealing with animals here. I think if a person learns how to create new flowers, using whatever they have, they will be thrilled with whatever they get. At first.
And using even the oldest cultivars out there, they could still get something unusual simply because of the genetic potential which none of us have ever seen expressed. There are millions of possible genetic combinations and mutations in simple crosses whose seeds were never even planted.
Registration shouldn't be pushed in my opinion, but breeding should. With experience comes discrimination.
Numbers neither impress or worry me. There are some 52,000 registered day lilies; most are unknown. But they have gone from only single yellow/orange to purples doubles pinks ruffles and eyes in amazing combinations. If we condone only the 'properly educated' to breed, I think we will restrict our chances for seeing a double purple brug with ruffles, not enhance it.
Once the successful new breeder feels the joy of creation, most will want to do better, and then the desire to learn will lead them to find the guidance that the experienced can offer. At that point, it's up to any of us able, to provide what information we can, and guide them to those places that will give them the education that they seek.
As to wasted years, most won't see it that way when just trying to see if they can do it at all. A bit of education first certainly isn't harmful, but it isn't required .
Meanwhile I encourage anyone that can, to jump in and try it, with whatever they have available, and see what is involved. I and others will be glad to help in any way possible. And please, put me on the list for that surprise purple!

I am totally in agreeance with Lagata! Here Here!!!

It's so much fun trying it and then seeing the results with what you get. Right now I am anxiously awaiting pale pink (unk) x Adora which were pollinated by myself last Summer....Blaine and some other's are doing the honors of growing it out for me. I can't tell you how excited I am to see her when she opens up :-)

Hugs
Julie

There's some great insect pollinated brugs out there too. No one knows their either of their parents. Theres some great brugs from mixed seed packs out there. No one knows either one of the parents.
I'm thankful that we all free to grow and do with our brugs as we please. If anyone takes my words and tries to turn them into a fight you are barking up the wrong tree. It is not my intention to tell anybody what to do. There is nothing wrong with a different point of view.

Sheesh...
I can see this being another interesting thread earmarked for the DG boneyard.... :(

I sure hope not, and don't see any reason it should from here. Fighting would be super counter productive to encouraging newbies to jump in , which would be a shame! Sure opinions differ on things, but that should only lead to new thoughts and discussion, not fighting. Hopefully, we all just want to see new beautiful hardy Brugs growing in our own yards. This thread has given me ideas for a few things, which is what discussions are about. If my opinions appear as an attack against any person or group, please know that it isn't my intent. I mean only to encourage exploration, not harm.anyone.

Vee8ch,

Thank you for that reference. I bookmarked it.

Jeeze...i opened a can of worms...heheheheee

When I was chairman of the Breeders Committee with a Jack Russell Registry I saw all kinds of terrible crosses made, usually, no make that always .... in the quest of money. To save a stud fee some would breed to their own stud dog even when that dog was a proven carrier of a terrible defect. I'm talking defects that would cause the afflicted pain, and cost the owners of the afflicted thousands of dollars. Now, that's serious and harmful to all involved.

However, with plants the faulty or not exceptional can end up in the compost pile and nuture another generation of plants. No harm done. That said, there's no reason why we can't all make our most thought out crossings. You don't have to have the two plants blooming at once if you've saved pollen. Then I've also seen many of the generous people here on this wonderful forum volunteer to send pollen from brugs that others have admired. So, I can see both sides and respect them both. The former serious breeder in me wants to think ahead a few generations and do crosses that will hopefully help me accomplish what I want in a few generations. I'd rather not keep an offspring that wasn't great because even though I wouldn't cross it further, the bee or moth in the yard might make the cross for me. LOL

I enjoy discussing the serious as well as joking around. It's cool to find a site where both can happen.

Mary

edited because I never won a spelling bee

This message was edited Aug 2, 2005 9:10 PM

After reviewing Marys post, we are proud to announce the DG Spell Off winner for today. So could Mary please come to the podium to accept her award...... :)

Thank you, Thank you! I accept this award on behalf of all of us that were in school before the Lap Top, Palm Pilot or Micro Soft Word spell check. Even the notes I passed in class had spelling errors.

Mary

I am enjoying learning about these things. I haven't tried it yet but the thought that maybe if I do start trying and I get something unusual and great then I know what I can do.. Thanks everyone

(Trying hard to be spelling bee runner up instead of my usual typing impaired self)

LOL, Mary...

There ya go, Jazz, for all your hard work. :)

xeriscape8321
the best way you can start this out and still get some of the newer genes in there is to pick a pod parent,and decied who you want to be the daddy ...
if you don't have the pollen for the best daddy for your plant
ask around
someone might have it blooming and be willing to send you some
Just be reasonable in your expectations
the brand new hybrids have pollen that might be guarded with live ammo........

LOL CC. I hear that.

Just think, I bet in 2 years double pinks will be considered an old cross but that is when most will get their hands on one or 2 and get them to blooming size. Eveyone will be trying their hand at hybridizing their own. I can only hope we get tons of look alikes. Imagine that, double pinks as bountiful as Frosties. Sounds great to me. The world needs more pink!!!

To save pollen of what's blooming now, for use on blooms still a few weeks away, could I put it in a 35mm film canister and place in the refrigerator?

Does it "need" to be refrigerated and does pollen have a shelf-life?

Will the pod fall off if you try and root the branch it's attached too?
It just dawned on me that my season isn't going to be long enough to allow a pod to mature without bringing it in somehow. Maybe 'air layering' the branch as soon as I see a pod form? Then I'd be able to cut the branch off with a root ball intact.

Blaine I can only tell you what has worked for me. I really haven't read anything much on this. I freeze my pollen. It works the best for me. I refrigerate it for a few days as I use it, then freeze it in wax paper in freezer bags.

Mine does have a shelf life. And I see it dry up as it sits out. I have marked crosses with age of pollen and the old pollen never takes for me. Maybe others have much better luck.

My pods stop growing and then dry up on severed limbs. But they are tough so you may get it to stay till yours roots. Airlayering sounds like a good plan to me. Less stress. Or you can always keep them in your living room! I also notice come fall, the pods slow way down in maturing.

Yes, root that cutting! The seed pod will normally keep on growing!

Peanut (Double Pink) pollen was available about a month ago donated to a pollen bank. I'm sure it's gone by now. Lots of people are generous with things like pollen or seed. Just have to be in the right place at the right time. :-) No need to load the gun. LOl

Mary