I planted two different kinds of seeds. One said early, the other said large. No mention of seedless or pollinating. It is not a very big problem, as they were mostly for ground cover any way.
Gardening with Texas Native plants & Wildflowers. Part 5
I have a raised bed 2 ft off the ground, dug out two foot down, replaced soil to level, added a thick layer of newspaper and then bought dirt to go on top - it crawled through it all is now coming out the top!
We seeded Bermuda when we built our home 8 years ago. Sod was too expensive for a 1/2 acre... but it never really filled in like we would like. About 5 years ago, we picked up some squares of St.Augustine to sprig into the bare spots in the front yard. ( A neightbor said "you'll curse the day that you did that...." haha. It is filling in nicely, and we LOVE it! Last 2 years, we bought more and have slowly sprigged it in. We hope that it will have covered the entire property within the next 2-3 years.
We started noticing that the areas that were solid St. A. had little to no weeds growing, unlike the sparse Bermuda. NOT to mention.... the little whirly bird seeds that show up 3 days after you mow Bermuda.... UGH. We LOVE the fact that the ST. A is covering, and wish that we had planted it from the start!
mel
I have a small patch of St Aug in ft. the back is all Bermuda and that is all they really had back there - St Aug now that I can live with if I have to have a little grass - never even thought about it.. I know the St Aug is creeping into the field and the field grass does not grow in the areas it takes over - I should have put two and two ...
Mitch, have you considered buffalo grass? It's a native and there are several types. Wildseed Farms carries seeds for several types, including one that gets more dense (like turf) stays greener, and also stays shorter. I know that John (imway2dumb) was looking into buffalo grasses, and I took a picture of some for him when I was at Wildseed in April, but I never got around to posting the picture. I'll try to do that tomorrow. I'd love to grow it myself, but it doesn't do well in this area.
Personally, I like my Bermuda. Yeah, yeah..someday I won't think that, but right now it's all I've ever known. It came with the house. I have always liked it better than St. A because it's so soft and finer blades. It looks really nice when it's freshly mowed. :) It does run into my beds, but I just try to cut it or pull it out.
To enlarge our beds, we rented a sod cutter rather than trying to just plant over it. Then I put down several layers of newspaper and then added the new dirt. I have some come up occassionally, but it's worked pretty good.
The new neighbor behind us planted a veggie garden. I heard them tilling for a few days. I've always heard to never till Bermuda because you are just burying it deeper and it will come right back up. ? I guess they'll see next year.
I have used Ortho Grass B Gone to kill bermuda grass in my flowerbeds. It works great if you spray the grass in the heat of a sunny day. Fertilome's "Over-the-Top" woks well too and it can be purchased in a concentrated form which saves money in the long run. It will kill the grass and not harm most ornamentals. Be sure to read the brochure that accompanies it so that you are aware of what else it will kill.
If the bermuda is running up close to ornamentals and you are afraid that the grass killer will harm the ornamentals, snip most of the runner off leaving about a 3 inch piece. Or cut the top and bottom from a 3 liter Coke bottle, place the Coke bottle over the burmuda grass and put the end of the spray bottle into the Coke bottle to spray the grass using the steady stream mode. If it is really close to plant, you can cut the bottom from a small baggie, place the bermuda grass inside the baggie, dip a small brush unto the solution and brush the grass. Leave the baggie around the grass so that it doesn't touch the other plant. When the bermuda is close to another plant, I also let it grow until it has a runner long enough that I can coat it on a portion away from the other plant.
When making my flowerbeds, I dug up the grass, spread black plastic sheeting (solid plastic, not that weed screening stuff) and piled a thin layer of mulch on top of it to hold it down. In a few weeks, the grass was dead. I did it in the heat of the summer so the grass would bake well. BTW, undiluted vinegar will kill grass between bricks and sidewalk cracks.
Be aware that St. Augustine requires much more water than bermuda grass. Bermuda graas goes dormant when not receiving enough water, but will come back due to its deep root system. St. Augustine, on the otherhand, will die because its root system is shallow and its stems are close to the surface. I try to mow the grass which is mostly St. Augustine mixed with a litle bermuda grass in some areas before the bermuda goes to seed which helps keep it out of my flowerbeds.
Now if I could kill the nutgrass (sedge) that will ruin any flowerbed, I would think I had died and gone to heaven. Bermuda grass in the flowerbeds doesn't even phase me after fighting nutgrass for about 18 years.
I think the only solution with nutgrass is to pretend you wanted it there.
Trois, I think you are right.
Oh, my! If Trois and Htop can't get rid of nutgrass, then I guess there's no hope for me! No suggestions at all from anyone?
Love it to death!
we could all just call the grass in the beds the natural approach..... they are going to look that way like in fields... right? it could start a tred...
I just pull it out when I see it, both the Bermuda and the nut grass.
The way I look at it is, things will never be perfect, so I just do the best I can,
and that's all right with me.
It is when they are bigger and stronger then the plants I put in after all winter and spring tearing them out.. then it gets to me...
Amen to the nutgrass! We have a battle with it too, but not as bad as alot of our neighbors. I saw my husband resorting to Roundup this weekend. He only uses it when absolutely necessary, and that is one! You can't pull the stuff up, cause the roots snap off!
We weighed the pros and cons of bermuda and SA, after having a manicured Tiff Bermuda lawn when in the city, then standard bermuda here, the weeds were not getting under control after 5 years, but the SA has been the only thing that has worked. We do not pour the water to it, as we water once every 7 -10 days if no rain. We water deep, so that the roots will run deeper for their nutrients. Works for us!
And getting bermuda out of the flower beds! UGH. Anyone with a solution, come on by.... have you seen bermuda growing into monkey grass? Double NO! Hate it! Cannot get the stuff out, and steel edging? Bermuda just runs underneath it! Our problem is that we have a 1/2 acre and we could not keep up with it when it started and now it's out of control!
m
Mel,
Been wondering if there are any good nurseries you way. The ones in Granbury are getting boring. Found one I really like in Stehpenville but that's a hike. I have on my list in the metroplex but I think Crowley/Burleson area might be closer that many of them.
Thanks,
Linda
I know Mitch, patience, patience, my dear. Some one once said,
" The only kind of low maintenance gardening is the kind you do on your knees "
I firmly beleive it.
Hazel, have you tried Image on nut sedge? Image is what A & M recommends. I just bought some and was trying to figure out how to apply it withour killing other things. I'm going to try your Coke method on it
Sugar... there are no nurseries in crowley, and as far as burleson, besides HD, Lowes and WM, there are a few, but nothing to rave about. WE go to Weston Gardens, near everman/forest hill off I-20. They are the BEST. If you want annuals and a few perennials, there is a wholesale place that sells to public, but harder to find, called Stegalls not too far from westons.
After much thought, and at the risk of having you guys mad at me, I must say that I just don't understand why you would want to put a chemical next to the plants that you have worked so hard for, and run the risk of killing them, to accomplish the same thing as just pulling the unwanted plant.
Don't forget the chemical works itself down to the roots, and can spread laterally.
Please don't be mad at me for saying this, I am speaking out of concern, I have had some plants damaged from my neighbor putting weed killer on his lawn, and it spreading to my slope.
Josephine.
I think the quanity must be carefully controlled.
Josephine, I was wondering the same thing. I have heard many say in different forums that when they used Roundup for something, even being very careful, it ended up killing nearby plants. One person lost a number of rose bushes that were further away, but a rainpour apparently washed it down to the other bed!
I'm not trying to start a controversy, just giving some input. :-)
This message was edited Jun 22, 2005 12:03 PM
Our neighbor (downstream from us) recently put roundup on a single tree and killed a whole grove, about 30 trees, including a couple of large and treasured Oaks about 150 feet away. They blamed it on something else, but they all died at the same time.
Thank you Maggiemoo, it certainly was not my intention to critisize anyone, but to sound a warning. Of course, everyone is entitled to use whatever methods they see fit, and I hope that what I said will not keep people from expressing their opinions.
Please forgive me, if I offended anyone, that was not my intention.
Josephine.
My wild Petunias are looking good.
Roundup is only effective if it comes in contact with the green growing parts of plants. It does not move through the soil. That being said, it was derived from Agent Orange! Do not apply on a windy day. (I never spray, only paint!) DO NOT get any of it on you! Used 'intelligently' it is a good last resort product.
John
We don't have a problem at all with weeds in our Bermuda. We have some, but not near what most of our neighbors have. The place where we get the most is where the sidewalk and the grass edge have a small gap, then they all blow in there, but they are easy to pull out. We have tried and tried to use organic fertilizers, but our yard was just so void of anything, being so new, that we HAD to use Scott's (not with weed killer). Our soil test said we had no nitrogen and the organic stuff was taking way too long to build up. But we only use it twice a year, and in between we put down dry molasses a few times and a few other goodies. I think maybe those have helped us have fewer weeds and fire ants. I don't use any chemicals to kill weeds or grass. The closest I've come is using the vinegar but only in a place where I was putting the swimming pool. Otherwise, I'm like you Frostweed, I don't expect it to be perfect so I just pull it and cut it and try not to get myself aggrevated over it. I leave the aggrevation to the plants with bugs!!
I think you nailed it with that last statement, John.
We don't worry nearly as much as some folks do because to remove all weeds, you also remove almost all native wild flowers. We are increasing out wildflower population fairly rapidly, but this dry weather is slowing the process.
D-R-Y weather!!
We own one bottle of roundup. We've had the bottle for 8 years. As I said before, there are few instances that warrant "crossing the line" as Howard Garrett would say (organic Dirt Doctor) He has also stated that there are few instances that need agressive measures.
I fully understand that most people are careless in their actions regarding chemicals. We went organic about 8 years ago when we built our home. This was after learning the organic ways, and believing that our prior chemical ways led to one of our family members cancer diagnosis. THIS will wake you up!
The average consumer looking on shelves and watching commercials learns nothing about how dangerous these chemicals are, and no one tells them otherwise. I saw first hand while on vacation driving in west texas thru the panhandle, when you look at the test fields and crops for the major universities.... all of the BIG company names of chemicals being tested. THEIR money is paying our colleges to do the testing and make the recommendations to the public. MONEY MONEY MONEY is driving the results. Now I understand how the dollar works.
It does take alot of independant research on the consumers part just to protect ourselves and our children. I (we) feel very passionately about the use of organics and the role that they play in everyones lives. We do not use chemicals carelessly, and our environmental concerns do not stop at just what we use in our lawn and garden. There are food, health, beauty, conservation and recycling issues too.... We try our best to save this earth. It's the only one we have.
melanie
Josephine, this product has only killed bermuda grass in my yard and usually in my flowerbeds I can pull or dig it out. In between sidewalk cracks and the space between the sidewalk and the curb it is a little difficult for me to dig up cement and asphalt to get to the bermuda roots. In some situations, I can not dig into the ground to get the roots up due to the roots of the other plants being damaged. I have had the same bottle of Grass B Gone for 3 years and still have some left in it. It's not as though I am drenching the soil with the stuff, doing my whole yard or spraying it up in the air so it can travel around and damage any of my or my neighbors plants. I have had my plants damaged from my neighbor spraying weed killer too. He sprayed Image which drifted to my plants. I am a very responsible person and very ecologically minded. I don't post here often and I know a whole lot about native plants because this seems to be your forum, but I just feel I need to respond.
Maybe you don't have nutgrass like I and others have nutgrass.My husband said to tell you that I was digging and pulling up nutgrass and my neighbor's house's foundation moved 2 feet. It fills in 2 of my flowerbeds comlpletely. I can't plant very much in the ground in them because I am constantly having to dig down 18 inches or more to try to locate the "nuts" and I would damage the roots of most of the plants if they were in the ground. Most of the plants in these areas are in containers. The nutgrass eventually fills the containers as well. I wished I had taken a photo of the last flowerbed that I "trolled" for nutgrass. All you would see is nutgrass. These beds are now covered in cypress bark mulch again. I had removed the mulch so the larkspur and other wildflowers could come up. It lines the cracks between my sidewalks and the space where the asphalt from the street meets the cement of the curb, it is in my hanging baskets, sprouting where the house meets the sidewalk in my entryway and in the crack where the driveway meets the garage. I take a long knife and try to dig up the nuts from the cracks, but this is almost useless and I have damaged the cement. Most of my neighbors have given up trying to have flowerbeds. Some have even removed their flowerbeds because of the nutgrass. I feel very sorry for several who are trying to grow lots of roses with the nutgrass taking over.
TXMel, I have to water portions of my SA grass every 3 or 4 days because there is not much dirt in areas of my yard ... solid limestone below the dirt and the water runs off fast because I am on a slope. I have added soil where I can. The soil sinks down into the limestone and has to be replenished. Oh, to have dip soil like I had at my previous residence. The SA does keep out weeds (except for nutgrass). Roundup will only temporarily deaden the tops of the nutgrass. I am sorry you and your neighbors have nutgrass too.
75154, I know the feeling so well. I dig and dig the nutgrass out for days and days and the here come the shoots back up where I had broken of the stems, but not gotten the nuts up. I am sorry you have this problem too.
Sugarfoot , the only way I am able to grow anything in the ground in 2 flowerbeds is to dig up and sift through the dirt and remove as many nuts as I can. Then, I place 4 to 5 inches of cypress mulch over the dirt. In some areas, I have placed old rubber car floormats that I have asked people for over the dirt first. The nutgrass will not grow through thick rubber as it does through weedscreens and just about anything else. (My niece paid some guys to put in a pond for her. They assured her that nothing would grow through the container. Guess what, nutgrass punctured the plastic and has now taken over her whole pond). Periodically, I have to remove the mulch and redig the dirt trolling for the nuts. After years of doing this, the nutgrass nuts start working their way up from deep down and are easier to pull. The seeds sprout in the mulch so if you can pull them up easily if you do it as soon as you see them. If the mulch is removed (as I do in the spring when I grow wildflowers), the nuts that have been lurking under the mulch sprout very quickly and start taking over again. It is a never ending battle and so discouraging because you can't plant what you want to plant. In order to get the nuts out, you destroy the roots of any plants that do not have sturdy roots. Be sure to get any flowerheads before they go to seed. The seeds can travel a great distance. After having a serious operation last year, I was unable to do this so nutgrass is coming up in other areas of my yard now. I have been able to dig these scattered ones up as soon as I see them. I am sorry you have nutgrass too.
bettydee, I bought Image 4 years ago to try to get rid of the nutgrass, but would not use it after reading the warnings on the label about its effects on other plants. My neighbor has painted on the nutgrass blades with a small brush. It took him days and days. I know because I was outside trolling for the nuts in the dirt whle he was doing it. I think he had to reapply it, however. I am sorry you have nutgrass too.
Maybe I should just not have any flowerbeds at all and let the bermuda grass and nutgrass take over. Go aunatural and say to heck with it and nit grow any of God's beautiful gifts because I must be damaging the environment and giving people cancer. It ssure would be a lot less work. I'm going out now to get rid of some bburmuda frass and nutgrass.
This message was edited Jun 22, 2005 1:23 PM
Well geez, I probably shouldn't say anything, but think I want to "defend" Josephine. I don't think she was attacking anyone or calling anyone careless, she was just questioning the use of the products. I kind of had the same thought as I quickly read thru the post about the chemicals. Explaining the horror of your situation gives insight as to why you might use a chemical as a last resort. There's no need for you to get offended and upset. Now we all know, and definitely feel for you! :( I don't think I even know what nutgrass is, but I'll sure be on the lookout for it.
Now Mel, I know you personally and know you are very responsible, but I'm going to report you to Howard! ;) LOLOL! (oops, I can't, because you'll report that I'm using Scotts!)
konkreteblond, thanks for your sympathy. I will not make any further comments as I knew that anything I posted would be seen as an attack on Frostweed.
Then let's move on...
Josephine, I was wondering, with all that garlic growing, do you have bugs? Everything I have been reading about companion planting to get rid of bugs recommends garlic. I don't have any and have had my share of bugs this year. Does the garlic growing actually make your garden smell, or is there just an odor underground?
And, is that your phlox blooming in the background?! It's beautiful! I wish mine would get busy and grow!
Htop, I am very sorry to have offended you, I did not realize you had such a terrible problem, bless your heart. If I had such a terrible problem I might resort to extreme measures myself.
I know that you are a very caring and generous person, I know it from the things you write about, and the things you say, and I admire you. I would be very unhappy if you stopped contributing to our group, we need and appreciate your input, and I hope you will continue to be a part of this fun group.
Sincerely, Josephine.
Trois, your petunias are indeed looking good, thank you for posting.
Paige, yes it is a lot of garlic, and I still have some bugs, but not a lot of them.
The Phlox is really neat right now, the whole yard is scented by it, I will post some pictures. I f you guys need or want more of it, I am hoping to root a lot of cuttings this fall, so let me know.
Mitch, I usually post my pictures on the plant files as well as here, however, they usually don't make a distinction on whether they are Texas natives or not.
I don't know if there could be a thread or files, for just native plants, that might be interesting, will look into it.
Josephine.
Well the grass is coming back out - no matter how deep I go it goes deeper... I have found a couple of arrowheads though and a few bricks so I guess they make up for it! So now I got to find a way to display the arrowheads in the garden without them getting pulled back under the dirt...
Josephine - I have checked out your photos, you have added a few plants to. Some people like me dont always post them and it was more for those of us who dont get them on here like we should. The lizards tail is budding so cross your fingers for a bloom soon...
I was not offended by Josephine. She has seen my garden and can understand where I am coming from. Although, I DO have neighbors that do and have applied chemicals with reckless abandon. ON A WINDY DAY. It's those Yahoo's that I want to strangle.
I am simply stating my reasons why sometimes you have to do what you have to, with very careful application, to protect the other special plants in your garden.
Nutgrass should be eliminated. I hate the stuff, and would take careful steps to try and eliminate it, too! I don't wish the stuff on anyone. Digging it, spraying it, torching it, whatever it takes. ((((((CAREFULLY)))))))
We spend our valuable time and energy to grow what we do, and I think that the ones that post here, are eagerly concerned with protecting what we've been entrusted to!
So any "lurkers" looking for shortcuts to that perfect yard..... if you CARE about the environment. Slow down, read, study and work HARD.... Nothing good comes easy. (I have teens, I've quoted that a few times...)
smiles, =D
Melanie
Part #6 of this thread has been started, to go there click on this link.
http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/523112/
Let us continue to have fun learning while helping each other.
Josephine.