All my brugs seem sick...

Hi, All - I am going to post 6 pictures of my brugs. All of them seem to be suffering from "something", I don't know what... they are very pale green to yellow, various deformed leaves..can anyone tell me if this is a deficiency, a virus, or what?? I checked the PH and they all read between about 6.8 and 7.2. I haven't fed them through the soil for 2 or 3 weeks because we have had SOO much rain they are just too wet to add more water. I have been folier feeding them with Seaweed Magic and Bill's Perfect Fertilizer. When I put a Fertilizer Meter in the soil some say "ideal" others say "too little"...

Any experts here got an idea??

picture #2...notice the curled, deformed leaves..

picture 3..this is poor Jean Pasco --

picture 4...This is white knightii; serious cupping of the leaves...

Picture 5...this one even has buds! Citronella...see the corky looking stuff on the leaves? And again..yellow, leaves..

Last one... this one has a thin yellow band all around the outside of the leaves...wierd..

Is there a brug doctor in the house??

Afraid I will be no help to you, I had leaves simular to your first two Brugs but they were in the house under lights and I was told they were to close to the bulbs, how long have yours been in the sun, did you take them out gradually or have they always been outside, hopefully Brugie, kell, or someone that is knowledgable will come along and help.



Doris

Hi, Doris -

Mine have been out in the open for about three weeks...here are a few of the same brugs I posted the first week of May -- they good then. Before this I had them in my greenhouse and they were fine. sigh.

But then, the weather has been unseasonably cool, cloudy and wet...

My guess would be aphids. I had to put on my OptiVISOR, Optical Glass Binocular Magnifer to see them on mine!!! My leaves looked just like yours and it seemed to have happened overnight.

http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/504364/

I sprayed with liquid Sevin-10 and then followed-up with Bayer Rose Feed and Insecticide (not the exact name, it's downstairs on hte back porch).

Judy

Mites can cause that kind of damage too, broad mites or cyclamen mites. No way to know for sure, have you got a county extension agent nearby that you could take one plant to and have them look at it?

My brugs do that when they leave the nice warm greenhouse and get planted out. I think it has to do with the temperature change for the most part. The curled leaves on pic #2 do look like broad mites but I'm not sure as temp change and overwatering can cause this as well. My 2 cents.

Jeremiah

Diane, I've had that same 'condition' with brugs, and it started last year,, they were unknowns from a nursery, and it was only ONE unknown with the problem, but I didn't realize there was a problem until I had about 6 rootings, spread out in my yard that something was amiss. The original brug, drifted into a sadder shape than yours last year, all the leaves dropped off and then it began to wither from the ends of the branches in. I finally gave up and put what was left in the compost pile. There were ants in her soil, in a pot. The cuttings I took rooted quickly but grew up with the same sickly yellow green color, and deformed looking leaves. I really didn't realize it was all one brug causing the problem, until they made it through the winter. I disposed of another of the original last week, tho it looks WAY better than last year. I do know that I do not plan to buy another brug in a nursery that appears to come from a brug mill such as the few nurseries around here that have brugs, do not have good, healthy appearing stock, they look just like mine did with the sickly, yellow leaves. I bought on brug from the side of the road and it is healthy and strong and beautiful. Go figure. IMO, it does matter where they are grown!!! I do think the consistent of CalMag has REALLY been beneficial in my garden. I hope you find out what it is. BTW, I treated for mites all season but the county agent said I didn't have mites, she said what I had was 'irregular watering'. Shoot, I dunno, it rained ALL season, so I supposed they could have been sitting in water, but my named brugs didn't have the 'sickly yellow' leaves, even with the irregular watering and 20-20-20...I didn't cause what my brugs had, it came like that, and I didn't cure it - if you cure it, I'd love to know what you use...GOOD LUCK!!!

This message was edited May 23, 2005 10:32 AM

Hi Diane, I think I'm going to order one of the OptiVisors as Judy suggested. I have various curled and disfigured leaves too. On some of them I can see (with a strong magnifying glass) mites of some sort. There is some good information on broad and cyclamen mites at www.entomology.umn.edu/cues/inter/inmine/Mitesb.html

KEWL!! I'm gonna get me one of those. Holding a loop and turning a leaf needs one more hand!!!

I found that when I dressed my brugs with DH's magic mix...they all got healthy again. SL...right on the money with the CalMag! The yellowing on the edges is sometimes connected to lack of Magnesium. He mixed up Epsom Salts (mag.), Gypsum (calcium), chicken manure, Granusol (justa pinch) and they all loved it! Yellowing went away.

The curled leaves? dunno. Thrips can cause some of the puckering. You might send your soil off to the Extension Service and get it tested...then the additives you need get simpler!!

Would love to know what happens next.... :~)

You could have mites, but it could also be from too much water and a nutrient imbalance. You said you'd had a lot of rain? Looks a little like nitrogen deficiency.
The photo of #2 looks like sun scald, it happens when the leaves get wet in the heat of the day.

Thanks all

I have one of those magifying visors - use it all the time when I am sowing teeny tiny coleus seeds - 1 per peat pellet! LOL

AlohaHoya - that sounds like a great mix...only thing I don't know where to get is chicken poop. Hey, maybe the alphalfa pellet tea would work!

Susie - yep, we have had a ton of rain, most of the remaining days were cloudy, cool and windy. yeesh! What a Spring! As I mentioned, I have been using a foliar spray fertilizer, but I really think the roots need something - I have just been so reluctant to drench the already wet soil with more fluid!

Diane

Don't drench them, but the foliar feed should work. How high is the Nitrogen(the first number)?

Susie - The Bills Perfect Fertilizer I have been using is 6-11-5

Diane

Diane...just a comment about your fertilizer...the middle no. is supposed to be lower than the others...maybe that could be contributing to your problems!
Margie

Really, Margie? I didn't know that - the middle number is phosphorous - thought they needed that for flower boosting. uh oh... maybe that is part of the problem.

Diane

I just thought the middle number should be "low" but didn't know it had to be lower than the others - i.e. don't use Miracle Grow Bloom Booster because the middle number is 52.........

There are some posts on it...I will try to find one and link it here...monika spoke about it...and I think fairly recently

Margie

I found it, Marge! I found the thread where Monika educates us on Fertilizer and the Phosphorus amounts. It is here: http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/230961/

Man, I had no idea..and I have two 4ft bookshelves FULL of gardening books and subscribe to about 6 magazines and never, ever heard this. Man - I LOVE Dave's. I'll bet that has EVERTHING to do with what's wrong with my babies...

Consider me a convert from here on out!

Diane

If you add some liquid Ironite to your foliar spray, I bet you will see a difference too.

Great Diane...I am glad that you found it! A friend came over and I couldn't search for it! I will have to look at it again too. I hope it is the answer for you!

Margie

Ya'know. SOMEtimes I think that plants can go 'funky' for no apparent reason at all. Then we beat ourselves up trying to find the reason, invest in hundreds of dollars of 'cures' and it is about water, fert. and THEIR 'Tudes....

Carol

I have not found a foliar spray that really does as much as the Seaweed Extract in the Safer (brand) Insect Soap. I really wish Safer would offer the seaweed extract without the soap, I asked them about it last year and received a ho, hum reply. I'm going to use a chelated iron foliar spray, Nutri-Cal, which says it's chelated calcium and see how it works. I didn't think too much of the MaxiCrop or GrowthMax. OTOH, since I'm using CalMag, maybe I don't need anything else.

Am I wrong or does it seem like Brugs has so many problems. I babied mine all winter and every time I turned around the leaves were getting eaten or they were curling or turning yellow. Now that they are all outside I have to worry about the wind, sun and maybe to much water. Do they ever get to where you don't have to worry about bugs of any kind. I have 15 planted in the ground 5 in 19 gal. big pots and 3 that are still in there gal. pot, not knowing for sure where I am going to place them. Then 2 that are in the ground look like they are going to die. Oh yea I forgot I also have to worry about cats.

If mine all survive and bloom for me I know it will have been all worth it. But if they don't I think next winter I will only keep about 5 or 6 in the house in a bubbler, like Sherry did and see if they do better next summer.

Do I sound a little down, I just want them to start looking beautiful and perky and start leafing out a lot. How often should I be fertilizing them, maybe I'm not doing that enough?

As soon as the sun comes out and the rain stops I will take some pictures and post and maybe some of you experts can see what I am talking about.

Hmmmm - I went to that thread. It didn't seem to specify that the middle number had to be lower than the other two.

I do know that the Brugmansia and the Tomato are both in the same family. They say if you give your tomatoes too much nitrogen then you will get real big bushy plants but very little fruit.

2pugdogs, things will pickup. Is this your first brug growing season? Last year was pretty much a zero for me, but, wow, did I learn!! Not making some of those mistakes twice, and it shows in my garden (except I don't have a single caladium up, very disappointing!!). If foliage has anything to do with health and flowering, I should have a good year. I never dreamed I could EVER have pretty, healthy foliage, but I do. Doesn't take much to keep me going and having fun. It sounds like your weather is a problem - we are expecting hail AGAIN today, give me rain and plenty of it, but goodness we don't need more hail...good luck 2pugdogs!!!!!

2 pugs - they aren't the easiest plant to grow - but most of us keep trying just because when they start blooming they are so beautiful and heavily scented.

SherryLike: Yes this is my first year, and you are right I have learned a lot this season so far. Last winter, I don't care what it was or who it was if they had a problem I thought I had the same problem. I tried everything on my brugs that came across the forums. Not next year, like I mentioned earlier I am going to take cuttings and put them in water with the h202 like you did and not put them in the soil, and I'm not going to have as many as I did. I'm talking big now but lets wait and see what I look like come next Feb. HaHa.

I did get me some HVH Special Blend Fertilizer from Hidden Valley and it is recommended for Hibiscus, and any tropical plants. The ratio is 17-5-24. It was recommended to me by a Hibiscus grower on Ebay. I think I will give it a try.

My Caladiums aren't up yet either, I have had them in the ground for 3 weeks now. I had one that was starting to grow before I planted it and it is up about 4 inches. I went to the Coop forum and asked for some information on how long it should take for them to come up, and one DG member said theres weren't up yet either. I thought maybe I had planted them upside down then I went to a web site and it said even if you do plant them upside down, they will still come up just takes a little longer. That is probably what happen to me.

But I am going to hang in there with my Brugs I just hope they snap out of it and start to grow. I would be thrilled if I only got one bloom out of the 23 that I have. But I bet if I got 1 bloom I would just want more. Never satisfied.

I water mine, I give them azalea food when I think of it and last week I gave them epsom salts. They get caterpillars and a mite or two from time to time, but I rarely spray. They get yellow leaves when I let them get too dry or when I have gone too long without feeding them. They are in bloom or in bud most of the time. I used to baby them, but I haven't had time lately. If they get sickly or become too much trouble I whack them back. Even L'Amour has been in flower perpetually since Feb or March.
I've got rooted cuttings in cups of vermiculite that have been there a year, they have two leaves at the top. I have rooted cuttings in jars of water in my garage, that have roots wrapped round and round the jar. Sure a few rot, but most root.
Now if I could just get tough with my salvias, lol.

Sherry, I have had good results using any foliar kelp, it didn't matter the brand, why did the MaxiCrop not work good for you?

Thanks, 2pugs, re the caladiums. I haven't had the computer time I did last year, so I'm really glad to have the skinny, before I flip out. I still have a couple of hundred to plant. I might look into your hibiscus fertilizer, mine are common, but we love them and only the perennials get bugs, slugs. You sound so much like I felt last year, with my brugs, I was a basket case, and like you, I bought every 'snake oil' mentioned. I did that when I started in competition Goldens too. Finally, with Goldens, duh, I woke up pretty quickly and realized 'it' was in the genes, and could not be bought in a bottle, lol!! I greatly respect the mentors on this forum, especially Monika, and the state side mentors, all of whom give so much time working with newbies. I've heard many, like Susie posted, say that they just sprinkle a little of this, a little of that and and, having three precious brugs from Susie, I know it works, but, I apparently have too much time on my hands and by the time I dissect every single little detail, I ended up with a pretty sad looking bunch of brugs last year. I 'waked up', some sorta way and this spring, I have some really nice looking, healthy brugs, with giant, blue-green leaves and I'm shaking in my boots, with 'fear', yet again, that they will be all leaves, without buds and blossoms. I think my bubbler helped lots and I think my tomato kits helped lots too and I think CalMag is HOT!! I will never be without it...

Brugmansias like acidic fertilizers?

Hi, Mary!!! It's not that MaxiCrop didn't work, it just didn't do as well as Safer (brand) Insecticide Soap and Seaweed Extract. Except for providing water, MaxiCrop did little. When I've used the Safer IS, with Seaweed Extract, the brugs stand up and turn their leaves toward the sky. When I use MaxiCrop, GrowthMax, Messengers, the brugs are okay, but IMO, ho hum. However, I think the Safer, with Insecticide Soap (and Seaweed Extract) is too much for a brug without bugs/mites, I think the insecticide soap, over and over, is too harsh, dries out the leaves - the seaweed extract that Safer uses, seems to be a 'wonder drug', IMO. I've made every attempt to find the 'right' seaweed extract, with zero luck, MaxiCrop and GrowthMax, and Nutri-Cal, are some of the ones I've bought, but I haven't used the Nutri-Cal yet, cross your fingers!!! Also, the Bayer, 3 in 1 did as well as the Safer Insecticide Soap and Seaweed Extract. Bayer 3 in 1 includes a light fertilizer - I'm thinking, do not know, that the 'light' fert might be the answer. I dunno. I will not stop, until I find 'it', assuming the answer is in a bottle, lol!!! I dream of Jeannie, ya know??!!

I know what you mean about not stopping until you find "it".

Today I bought some Neem that Kell had suggested. I was impressed that it not only kills both aphids and spider mites - but also eggs and larve. AND - it can be used as a fungicide as well, for powdery mildew and others. So I will use this on my other garden plants as well - especially ones that get powdery mildew easily like my lupins and bee balm. I am going to do my 2nd application of Messenger on Friday morning. And I will continue to use Gretchen's fertilizer brug tea to fertilize with, with an occasional boost of fish emulsion or regular Miracle Grow.

I am hoping this Neem works - because today I noticed the first signs of spider mites. They gave me alot of grief last summer. It is horrifying to find your most precious and babied plants suffering from something like that. They can go from beautiful to icky really really fast.

Karrie, I didn't think it was possible to get spider mites with this cold wet weather we have been having. I had spider mites on a half a dozen plants and moved them outside and treated with Ortho. I know the mites do not like it cold and wet but within 4 hours after I treated them it rained. It seems to rain whenever I head for the spray. I have treated them twice now, they are still outside. I don't think they have any more mites but it is so cold they don't get any new leaves.

Now we are suppose to get 2 days of hi 70s and low 80s then turn cold again.

They say not to use the same treatment very many times in a row so I guess I will try the neem oil next if they still have the mites.

Jeanette

I got spider mites last year when it was chilly like this. Russ thinks they are coming out of the hedges that are in front of the front porch. I've been keeping the Brugs that are in pots on the front porch at night - and if it's not too terribly windy out there put them out to get more sun. When they get taller they won't have to be moved off the porch unless I just don't have room for that many there. I can see that happening. I've been thinking of places they'd be happy in, but get to show off as well - when they are blooming. I have to put one in the backyard near the fence where people walk by all the time. We have lotza people who walk their dogs in the evening when the Brugs smell the best.

Last time I checked, Weather.com said it was supposed to be 87 on Thursday, and in the 70's this weekend - which is nice. We're going to the lake and it's always a few degrees warmer there than it is here in Spokane (on Roosevelt).