Before and After

Clare,so sorry you lost such a lovely Brug, hope all your other's are OK

Oh Clare, I don't even know what to say, I am so sad for you. You made the right decision, though. I am sorry.
Jackie

So many mention boiling clippers and other garden tools. I tried that and they rusted and got stiff and I dried them well and used oil - they were old, but I didn't want to try it on my new ones. I think I'll try the wipes.

Kell, what do you use to seal the areas where you remove limbs?? I've always thought that when big limbs are removed that something should be used, to prevent attracting bugs and disease. Do you use the same stuff used for trees, it's black, I think. TIA!!!

Clare, I had something on my Charles Grimaldi last year that looked the same as yours. When I put CG in the ground last spring, it just never looked right and gradually looked worse and worse. It was in bed that is far away from my house and as a precaution, I destroyed that brug and didn't take cuttings off of any of the other brugs in that bed. None of the other brugs showed any signs of a problem, but as all of them were duplicates of others planted elsewhere, I dug them up and destroyed them in the fall.

I suspect that my CG weakened over the winter and became suceptible to a virus or other disease. The previous year, it had been absolutely breathtaking. However, I have grown tomatoes in that same bed in previous years and as a precaution, will not grow anymore brugs in that spot. Clare, hopefully, this is an isolated incident like mine was.

Clare I am so sorry you lost that gorgeous tree but better to be safe than sorry. I would have done the same thing myself if it were me. I had a seedling I grew out last year, Insig. pink x becca lynn and it has it too. It looks just like yours but the dark circles around it are more pronounced. Even a cutting I chopped and threw in a pot with dirt did the same thing. I hate that too cos' it was a nice 'white' :-(

I've checked my other's and they're all doing fine though, hoping your's are too :-)

Julie
Hugs

I'm glad that Monika responded on the SB thread and gave you the answer, but sorry to hear what she said. I hope your other brugs will be okay.

Thanks so much Doris and Jackie.

Sherry, I bought a pruning sealer at Home Depot. It comes in a green can and sprays a black substance, possibly tar? I'll have to go check the can for what it consists of. You're right that it is a good idea to prevent disease from entering the wound. It is recommend for all trees when you cut off big limbs, and I used it for my avocado trees and should have used it on CG.

Thanks so much, Nat, for sharing your story with me. It sounds like we've experienced the same thing. I noticed that the roots of the CG stretched out, but I don't think it reached the roots of Pink Beauty. I just planted a Cupid's Blush cutting and another CG nearby, and now I'm wondering if they will be okay. Thanks for your help and support. I too hope that this is an isolated incident.

Thanks, Julie. I'm sorry you experienced this too. I have to say that it is comforting to know that I'm not alone with this problem. I'm so glad that you guys are all here to talk to about stuff like this. It is really hard to toss plants, but I agree that it was the right thing to do. My neighbor (who has Alzheimer's) came running over when she saw me cutting CG down, and she asked if she could plant the branches. She asked this over and over again, and I had to tell her over and over that it was diseased and has a virus, and, no, she couldn't have them. I sent her away with some succulents so she was happy.

Thanks, Shirley. I haven't seen that thread yet, but I'll go check it now.



This message was edited May 5, 2005 2:12 PM

Ouch Clare,so sorry,they were so good looking in that corner,I would always show your picture to friends.

Wow, Clare. I'm so sorry you lost such a beautiful tree.

Thanks, Doc and Ada. I appreciate that.

Well, I dug out that whole corner and replaced the soil and put a blue Plumbago in the ground there. It had been in a large container and really needed a spot in the ground. Here it is below with CG.

I also discovered a branch of my Monster White Brug had a lesion with a more prominent ring of black around it. I should have known about that one. In the two years that I've had it, it has remained only about a foot tall, and it has never bloomed for me. Bye, bye, Monster White. The funny thing is that it has been in a container the whole time but in the same general area as CG. It is possible that I used the same pruners to cut from both of them. Jamaican Yellow also has been remarkably slow to grow and bloom, but that one doesn't have any visible signs of the virus so it gets a reprieve for now. Pink Beauty is also not showing any signs, thank the Lord.

I don't often wander into the Brugsmania forum, but I was just about to post a question about my Charles Grimaldi when I noticed this post. Mine got severely frost damaged in December or January (I forget which month) and now barely has a couple of measly leaves poking out. Since I'm in zone 9 and it's now May, I don't think this is a good sign.

I'll have to check for lesions. I don't remember any though. The only significant thing I can think of is the frost.

Should I toss it and start with a new Brugsmania? It looks like a strange stick planted by the driveway. It's in a prominent spot, like Clare's, and it did look really lovely last year.

Hi Lilystorm. I had some frost damage too early on. And all of mine are doing great. Can you give us a picture? Even if the top died down, by now I would think you would have had some growth come up from the roots.

How cold did it get where you are? I do not think it got cold enough to hurt a brug to that degree. I would cut off all the damaged limbs. I would fertilize it and put it on a good fertilizer and watering schedule. If you have had no good growth in a month, pull it up and start with a new one.

Of course if it had those dark spots and rings, toss it, the pot and the dirt. Do not touch another brug until your clothes are changed and your hands well washed.

I do not know if this is true, but I have read alcohol does not kill SB on your tools. I read you need to boil your instruments for 5 minutes. I really have not had rust on mine. I buy the cheaper pruners, and I buy a lot. So I then boil them all together at the end of the day. I also boil big pruners and root saws. If I had put my shovel in soil that was contaminated, I may toss the shovel. If not, I would hose all the dirt off it in a place that would not contaminate my yard. Then if I could not boil it, I would soak it in freshly made 10% bleach solution for the day.

I'll post a picture of mine tomorrow. It got cold enough to blacken all the leaves overnight. There are a few leaves here and there, but really it looks pathetic.

Sounds good Lilystorm!

WOW Clare I just enlarged your last pic. What a pretty color combination.

Morning Clare :)
What is the name of that beautiful blue plant growing beneath the last pic you took, I believe thats the MWB you said? Its so pretty and boy does it compliment the brug.

Clare, I am so sorry you've yet lost another one. Bless your heart, I know you're just sick about it but you aren't alone. You have some gorgeous plants you've grown and I know that we have so enjoyed watching for pictures of all of them. You are a great brug mommie :)

Hugs
Julie

Well, here are a couple of pictures of my Charles Grimaldi. There do seem to be lesions, but it looks an awful like rot too. Could the excess rain have gotten in pruning cuts and rotted it?]

The main trunk looks even more like rot.

Oh my word!!! Bless your hearts! When does it end?? Lily I don't know how to respond to that question but maybe someone will come along to elaborate alittle bit on it. I have one that is virused with the SB also and it is quarantined and will be composted and burned! This is some nasty stuff! Yuck. So don't feel alone.

Hugs
Julie

lily, I'm just 18 months into brugs, but if that one was mine, I'd remove it and the dirt and take samples and have them tested. Such a shame, and I do hope it turns out to be something that will not damage your other brugs...

Luckily, it's my only brug except for one other that I recently received. The other one is in a pot and is quite a long way from this one.

I was thinking I'll just have to remove this Charles Grimaldi though. It's such a shame, since it was the perfect spot for a brug and it looked spectacular last year.

lily, of course you and Clare are obviously from the same big state but is it possible that your CGs are from the same source?? I've been removing puny or brugs that do not thrive and, at the least, isolating them, but bugs and my kitty cats were the problem with those brugs. I'm wondering this year if puny seedlings should be culled from the get go, thinking a 'slow' plant would be more susceptible to disease and viruses...

Mine was started from a cutting from a friend in the Pismo Beach area, so I doubt it's from the same source. We've probably had the same miserable weather though... It hasn't stopped raining basically since last October. (Can you tell I'm really, really sick of it?) Yesterday, there was practically a flash flood in my yard and hail started coming down.

Oh, lily, bless your heart, we had that rain last summer and it was awful, and it will cause mildew and rot. All my buds, except one, were lost this year due to wind, rain. Shoot, if it's not one weather situation, it's another. Have you heard from an experienced brug grower with regard to what might have caused your brug damage??

I'm guessing it was the freeze and the excess rain, but there are other gardeners around here that have nice looking brugs now. (Some were overwintered in a greenhouse, though, which I didn't do.)

Thanks, Julie, you are so sweet. Those blue flowers are on a big shrub called Plumbago. It is pretty common around here and grows well with little to no attention or water.

Thanks, Kell. I really liked that color combination also. I'm sad. I'm sure you are smart to boil your instruments. The Sani-Cloth Plus premoistened wipes that I use (or rather have started using) are called "germicidal disposable cloth" and are supposed to be bactericidal, tuberculocidal, and virucidal. It's supposed to kill everything including HIV and E. coli. One of the active ingredients is Isopropyl Alcohol. It should work to kill any virus. A 10 percent bleach solution is a good one too. I've been too lax in the past, but I won't make that mistake again.

Sherry, I got mine from a local nursery, but Lily is over 300 miles away so I'm sure we didn't get it from the same source. Mine has thrived for about two and a half years, and I'm pretty sure it got diseased when I cut the big branches and left the wounds open. Apparently, the tomato wilt virus or similar viruses are actually fairly prevalent in the garden.

Lily, I'm so sorry about your CG. I'm in Zone 10, and we didn't get frost here. I think it is possible that you could have frost damage and not the virus. I would do as Kell suggested and cut it way back to good clean wood and then watch the new growth very carefully. If the new growth as the lesions or dark spots or sickly wrinkled yellow-spotted leaves, then I would did it up and destroy it. You'll have to watch the new growth to be sure.

You know Lilystorm, by looking at your first picture, it looks like the rot is deep into the wood and it will probably kill it off at least to that point regardless of what ever its cause is. And it looks like that is pretty low on the trunk.

I have too many brugs to count. Too many to endanger. So if I get an odd looking seedling or a brug becomes sick, I toss it. I usually toss any that have mottled leaves. I just do not take the chance. Brugs grow so fast and are so easy to get, why stress and worry over a sick one?

I owe about 25 boxes of brugs or I would send you one to replace it. If you do not get any offers, let me know next month.

Clare, I'm tempted to chop down our tomato plants. I wonder if brugs pass stuff to the tomatoes? Do tomatoes have SB?? As you know Clare, et al, I'm an 18 month brug girl, with very little experience - you mentioned that your CG possibly became infected from open wounds. I've learned a lesson here, and will purchase some of that wound stuff, when my girls take me to on our annual Mother's Day trip to the nursery. My question is: Might SB be in the air, when conditions are right, or is it contagious, wherein the plants are exposed to the disease, and, or, is it a genetic thing and, or, do we know?? I have a teeny, tiny seedling that has a teeny, tiny spot, outlined in black, which never would have bothered me, until I read this thread. I think it's where the trunk was scraped during a storm - but, I removed the seedling and will take it to the county agent, just to see what it might be. Can SB occur through seedings, and, or genetically??? I would expect that it could through cuttings/rootings, that's a question...

I always listen to what Kell says! Always a wise word from her.

Sherry, brugs are in the same family as tomatoes and potatoes and are indeed susceptible to the same viruses. Many are in the soil. There is the tomato mosaic and the tomato spotted wilt and the cucumber mosaic and other mosaic viruses as well. I want post a link to a good web site about viruses, but I don't think I'm allowed to link to it any more, but if you do a search for brugmansias and viruses, you may get a match on it.

From what I understand, and others know more than I do, viruses can be spread by sucking insects like aphids, by using an infected cutting tool, and by soil that contains the virus. Open wounds from mechanical cuts are also vulnerable to disease and viruses which can be transmitted by insects as well. The only way brugs could pass a virus to the tomatos or vice-versa would be if the same infected cutting tool was used or aphids passed a virus from one plant to another. I have tomatoes growing in a big wooden half barrel this year in the same vicinity as my brugs, but they are in the way back, and I'm not worried...yet.

Here is a picture of my brugs in the back. You can see the tomato plant in the front.

Edited to fix spelling.

This message was edited May 6, 2005 3:36 PM

Here is Butterfly, which is blooming in the back:

Here is Solid Gold, which is on the other side of the wall from the brugs above in the back:

Sherry, additionally, viruses generally do not live very long away from their hosts and have no mobility of their own and usually have to be carried by soil, water, air, or by a host. Conceivably, we can transfer a virus from one plant to another just by touching them, which is why it is good to wash your hands and use a wipe after touching an infected plant.

Oh (((Clare)))! Bless your heart, I am so sorry! It looks more like Tomato Spotted Wilt Virus than SB to me. As you may recall I lost several multi-hybrid seedlings to it last year, and there is virtually nothing you can do to prevent it, as its carried and spread by Thrips. So, even if you use a preventative treatment, as soon as they bite the leaf, they transfer the disease, even though the insecticide will kill them. That's how it was explained to me by a Texas A&M plant pathologist. And, if that's what it is, you shouldn't plant anything else in its spot. I sure hope that's the end of it for you! Its terrible to deal with!

Gretchen
http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/456593/

I think I will probably just plant a new brug. If my brug is just plagued by rotting (and not a disease), would it be safe to plant another one in the same spot? I really did like the look of it by the house.

I think the fatal mistake I made was to cut back some of the limbs after the frost. This probably opened the door for rot.

I had no idea that brugs and tomatoes could pass diseases either.

I guess all plants must be subject to disease and genetic faults - just seems that brugs have more that their share. Thus far, I'm finding that they are well worth the risks but I'd love to solve the bug problems...and, hey, so far, my second growing season is way ahead of my first...

Hi Gretchen. Thanks so much. I didn't know you went through the same thing. I just now read that thread that you provided. I'm so sorry you went through all that. I knew that insects can spread viruses, but now I know to watch out and treat for thrips. You may be right that it is Tomato Spotted Wilt Virus. I think it is possible that SB and TSWV are possibly the same thing. In any case, thanks for your words of encouragement. I've already dug out and removed most of the dirt in that corner and replaced the soil and planted a large Plumbago. Plumbago is not in that same family and grows like a weed around here, and I doubt is susceptible to viruses. I'll keep my brugs away from that area in the future.

Sherry, it is true that viruses are everywhere, and tropical and subtropical plants seem to be the most at risk. Many plants actually have viruses but never show any signs or symptoms and can live with them just fine. Sometimes, it is a virus that causes variegation in the leaves, like variegated Abutilons. A plumeria with a virus causes color streaks in the flowers, which is highly prized by some. Some viruses will not kill a host plant but will reduce flowering, and, of course, some viruses will eventually kill a host plant.

I've never been a dedicated gardner until last year. I've always done yard work, but until roses, many years ago, and now brugs, I just filled my beds with annuals that bloomed all summer. Roses might like it here, and i might be able to care for them, now that I know about brugs. Growing roses in my part of the Delta, requires about the amount of time as growing brugs, 24/7. Clare, I did not know that tropicals and subtropical plants might be more at risk than others, but I surely believe it. Brugs are almost a full time job for me, hardly a day goes by that I don't have a brug project. In this area, it is thought by tomato growers that if one tomato plant gets TWSV, that all, or many will. It is has been YEARS since I've heard of tomato wilt here, which makes me think that there is something used to prevent it. We are taking our annual girlie, Mother's Day trek, my grand girls and their moms and we will be going to several nurseries and I'm going to ask about tomato wilt. A very Happy Mother's day to all of you!!!!!!

This message was edited May 7, 2005 8:33 AM

And to you too Sherry :)

Happy Mother's Day everyone!

I just went to check on my CG...lilystorm and mine are from the same source in Pismo. Mine is fine.

Actually I offered to share some of my brugs with her. We live about a mile away from each other and none of my brugs are in the ground and none of them were bothered by frost this winter. Some were in a little hoop house and the others were close up against the house. How different the temperatures can be in such a short distance.

BTW...Tracy is my DIL and was responsible for getting me to go to a daylily display garden that got me hooked on DL's. A friend with a DL addiction is responsible for giving me the cuttings that got me into brugs! Just a little history!

The 'Thrill of Victory' and 'Agony of Defeat' all in the same thread.
I guess condolences and congratulations can both be extended.
The pics of all those big blooming brugs.... I'll just keep on dreaming.
Thanks

Thanks, Blaine. I had a couple of good years with Charles in 2003 and 2004 so I guess I'll be grateful for that. I'll miss him in that spot by the driveway though. The scent would waft through the neighborhood in the evening. Right now in back, Solid Gold is making me proud. That is a consolation.