alibris? you think better then amazon?
Organic lawn care?
Oh yeah. I go to alibris first, then B&N, Abebooks, and Amazon is the last ditch effort before doing a google or froogle search. Of course, I am referring to books, as I have no experience buying CDs online.
Pixy, this is my "turn around" summer coming up. I am not going to use the chemicals etc I have in past. anxious to get the book and loose myself in it for a day or two.
Anastatia,
Last year was my 'turn around' year. I finally decided that I just couldn't use nasty smelling chemicals anymore. Bad for me, bad for everything. But,I admit that I have had to use orthene to control black vine weevils. When we moved onto this property almost 5 years ago, I had never even heard of them, much less seen one. We have 3/4 acre that had been really let go. It was covered with blackberries and english ivy but had some old rhododendrons that were lovely. The bottom leaves were chewed up and I didn't think much of it until all my new rhodies and azaleas started losing their leaves overnight! I discovered, much to my disgust, that I had probably thousands of weevils hungrily munching all night long. Last year I used the nematodes that are supposed to eat the larvae, but only in one area. I probably didn't do it right. They are temp and moisture sensitive, and microscopic so its a leap of faith to use them. This year I consulted with the reps of the rhododendron society and found out that the salal in my 'forest area' was the host plant for these creatures! I did notice that they ate the salal, but they eat everything, so I didn't realize the importance of that plant. They told me that there is no way to control them organically, unless you use tanglefoot and hand pick. I've been doing this, but with such a large site and hundreds of shrubs and plants, there is no way to keep up. Plus, I don't generally get too worried about what I look like (being over 40 will do that to you), but I do look like a complete wierdo outside at night with my little headlamp on searching among the shrubs for weevils! The people from the rhody society told me to pull out the salal, spray with orthene this year, and that once I got them wiped out, I likely wouldn't have anymore trouble. So, I'm still using the orthene, but I hope this is my last year.
I;ve used lots of suggestions from that book, so post if you have any questions! My garden was so beautiful last year, I simply could not believe it!
thanks Pixydish. We have a city lot and a few years ago I noticed notches on leaves of all my 5 Rhodies. I did use nematodes and it worked. But I did not have a "host" plant fighting me. I hope to get outside this week end. It rained so hard yesterday that I kept looking for Noah and his ark to come down my street.
My book arrived, Handbook of NW Gardening; Natural Sustainable Organic by Ann Lovejoy. She recommends cattle manure but NOT the packaged commercial stuff. She does not explain why, at least not yet. I am off to bed w/ my sleepy-time tea and new garden book.
Anastatia,
Yes, Lovejoy does not recommend the packed goods, but I still use them in a pinch. I have a couple of horses who live down the street, and if I can catch the owner, she lets me bring the wheelbarrow down to fill up with composted manure. She gives her horses only organic feed, so no weed seeds. I do see a difference when I'm able to get the naturally composted horse manure. Lovejoy recommends dairy cow manure, but I don't have a resource. Enjoy the book!
thanks Pixydish. Now another question re: lawns. My dd just bought her (married)1st home. It was a rental and the lawn is compacted WEEDS. I am suggesting(the typical mother in law)they do just a bit of lawn and lots of native shrubs/bushes etc. They are clueless re: cost and maintenance. I am wondering about getting a sod cutter to just clean out the place and bring in good compost/soil or what else do any of you suggest?
I have to vote for alfalfa meal or alfalfa tea.
When I was planting this tree in my front garden, I spilled the bucket of alfalfa tea I was planning to pour into the planting hole. I cracked up when a few weeks later I saw the difference on my lawn. I'm not sure how to get the tea evenly on the grass so although I think it would be slower to respond the meal may be a better option.
Dovey
Dovey~
Oh, wow, what a difference! Spill some of that over this direction LOL!
I can see that if the horse manure has been composted, and they have been fed ALFALFA and not grazed on weeds, you could possibly get the same effect. If I had alfalfa tea (anyone know how to make it ?), I would use a sprayer to feed it to the lawn or soil.
Tamara
Tamara,
I'm fairly new to the Alfalfa Tea sensation.
We had several discussions about it on the Rose Forum
here's one link
http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/486459/
I'm totally sold on the stuff.
You can simply make it with 1 cup of alfalfa pellets per 1 gallon of water or you can make a super batch by adding the other things people mention.
Dovey
I guess if it were me, I'd decide how big a lawn area I wanted, areate really, really well with a commercial machine, spray the whole lawn with alfalfa/compost tea, and topdress with compost. Then I'd overseed. On the landscaped areas, I'd just dig a good sized hole for each planting (using natives or easy-care shrubs for the newly indoctrinated LOL) amend each hole with lots of composted manure and then plant. If they want to kill the weeds between plants, I suggest using very thick cardboard on the ground, then cover with about 4 inches of mulch. Around here we use shredded bark, but compost is actually better because bark robs the soil of nitrogen as it decomposes. We killed about 1/3 acre of nasty , invasive english ivy on our property this way. By a year from now, she will have not only dead weeds, but nice rich composty soil. She can use corn gluten as a weed deterrent if she's worried about weeds between shrubs.
I am excited in every way to see the results of Dovey's spilled alfalfa tea! I sprayed out yard with my compost mixture yesterday, so we'll see if I get the same results! Dovey was starting with a WAY better yard than I have, however. LOL I have badly compacted clay and lots of weeds and moss. I think there is grass out there, but I'm not sure!
Now ya'll have me excited about my lawn. When will I ever have time for the garden LOL
pixydish, I thought of simply turning the ground over and proceeding as you suggested and that would be sufficient to block the weeds from sprouting up? and the "lasagna gardening" that you described is my favorite method. I did it by the book last year in one spot of our yard and it cost me lots $$$$. So now I simply cardboard and layer w/ grass clippings and compost. I am brewing some alfalfa tea as we speak.
Hi! Butting in here, but I've been following this thread with interest and am wondering if those of you who use cardboard have problems with the formaldehyde leeching into the soil or not. I have a ton of cardboard here but didn't think of using it for that reason. Do you remove it before it degrades too much or do you just use a different kind of cardboard? I have the stuff from flattened boxes. -C
cch..., I have read numerous articles on 'lasagna gardening' and the formald. problem was never mentioned when discussing cardboard. I also use lots of layers of newspaper since the ink used w/ local paper is OK.
Yup! I use newspaper too - Love it because it works.
I was just curious about the cardboard because I have a child w/allergies and the Dr. told me to keep him away from cardboard because of the formaldehyde used in its manufacture - maybe it breaks down though - I don't know very much about chemistry! :-) -C
Cchiovitti,
I've used many many cardboard boxes and they break down beautifully within a year. I've never had any problem with the plants, so I wouldn't worry about it. I've used every kind of cardboard box you can think of. I've used newspaper, too, but with wanting to kill off the evil english ivy (which is taking over the world and our forests up here) I needed the cover to last longer than newspaper.
Anastatia, By turning over the ground and then proceeding as I suggested, do you mean using the mulch? Personally, I think turning over the ground is more work than I'd like to have to do. Plus, in disturbing the soil you are actually exposing more weed seeds that have been waiting to sprout and are disrupting the good bacteria that are already there. In terms of the lawn, if you areate and add compost, the worms will turn it for you. If you turn it you are putting the worms out of a job! LOL We have enought unemployment up here as it is!
I didn't know I was describing 'lasagna gardening' ! :) I think I must read that book as I have seen reference to it many times.
OK pixy, then simply aerating (renting a machine)and doing as you suggested the weeds will be pretty much gone by being crowded out by the new grass from the seeding ?
If you pile on enough compost many of the weeds will die out. Some will still be able to survive. If they really want totally weed free grass, they could kill the weeds first and then aerate the lawn. How big an area are we talking about? There are lots of ways to kill weeds organically, but they can be labor intensive, depending on how large the area is. You can torch them (this is very satisfying I must say) or pour boiling water on them. Some people say vinegar kills weeds, but I've never tried it. Citrus oils are also weed killers.
One thing I know is effective is using corn gluten as a weed deterrant. So when they overseed, after the new grass is sprouted, they can sprinkle corn gluten over the yard to keep weed seeds from sprouting. I admit, I don't know where to get the stuff, but I'm guessing at a feed store? The good thing is that not only does it keep weeds at bay, it also feeds the new grass as it decomposes! Great stuff if you can find it.
Another alternative would be to plant a 'lawn' out of something other than grass. BillR , a DGer from down your way in Battleground planted his lawn with Fleur de Lawn. Here's the link:
http://www.protimelawnseed.com/fleur_de_lawn.htm
We're going to look into this ourselves. He's been very pleased with it.
Hope this helps. I'm not at all an expert on lawns but this year, as I've said, we have to rejuvenate our own lawn and I refuse to use chemicals so I've done some research on it and talked to some reps from a natural yard care business in SEattle. They were at the NW Flower and Garden show.
Pixydish, that rose is beautiful. What is the name of it?
bump...
bumping up good info...
I got a bag of beef feed / pellets from Agway instead of the chicken pellets I asked for. Can I use
them as "alfalfa pellets"?
well, hmm, what does the ingredient label say?
Pixydish
I would be interested in your program of fertilizing and spraying on those roses without pesticides. I don't use them on mine but I don't have very nice roses either. To be able not to use chemicals and get nice roses would be wonderful.
We could move to the rose forum if you prefer
Hi Roxroe,
I can tell you here, no problem. I basically keep a compost tea brewing in the greenhouse most of the time. I use a 5 gallon bucket and an aquarium aereator. I use a kneehi hose or I cut a pair of pantyhose to use as a teabag. In this I put some good composted manure, compost, some alfalfa, some mushroom compost, seaweed extract - a little of this and a little of that but the composted manure, compost, and alfalfa are basics. I tie off the top of the teabag and clip the bag to the rim of the bucket. I fill the bucket with water and add a good dollop of blackstrap molasses (the kind you get at the grocery store). This adds sugar to get the bacteria off to a good start. When this mixture starts foaming, it's ready to spray. I usually cut it about 1/2 with water, and see that there is no chlorine in the water.
I usually start spraying the roses and other plants (actually the entire garden) as soon as things start leafing out good. I soak the roses good, from above and from underneath and spray the ground around them. This stuff is very good for your soil. I find that if I have a reasonably sunny summer (not like last year where we didn't get any warm weather until July) that spraying the garden like this about every week to 10 days reallly helps keep diseases under control. Of any do appear, I am a bit complusive about snipping those parts off of the plant.
To fertilize, I just combine alfalfa pellets with composted manure and use like I would any kind of mulch.
One tip - when you pour the tea into your sprayer, you'll want to use cheesclothe because there will be tiny pieces of stuff that work their way through the teabag. It's really irritating when these clog the sprayer.
Also, your bacteria are active in the tea as long as there is foam on top. You'll notice that the foam will start one day, and increase over a couple of days, then it will start decreasing. This is because the bacteria run out of food and start dying. To get them started again if you can't spray right away, just add another bit of molasses and the next day you should see foam. Also, warmer weather helps things along nicely. That's why I do mine in the greenhouse.
Let me know if you have any other questions. I generally use neem oil for insect control.
- thanks pixy - I will start gathering materials. Have bucket, used stockings, sprayer, manure and seaweed. Need molassas cheesecloth and aerator. Don't know where I would get mushroom compost. Ideas?
It's not really necessary to have mushroom compost, it's just another thing I have hanging around the greenhouse and I throw a handful in when I think of it. I get mine at almost any of the local nurseries that sell organic products. It's a big business out here, so it's fairly easy to find. Whitney Farms is the brand I find around here, I don't know if it is sold on the east coast. But I'm sure there is an alternative. If you can find worm compost, or you have a worm bin, that's good stuff to use as well.
roxroe...if you have manure that is fine. You can use that in place of vermicompost, compost, etc. It would be best to use it in an aged form though and most likely, depending on what kind of manure it is, you'll just use more quantity. (For years I would make compost leach/manure leach and had excellent results with that. The biggest difference in the "leach" and the "tea" is that it isn't aerated with bubble pumps; however, you'll still benefit from the product in your garden.) (I would suggest you don't use the manure leach as a foliar spray on edible veggies/fruit though; this being a safety against any bacteria that would have an adverse affect on your ingesting it. You could apply it early on but try to either keep it off your edible crops or stop applying it a week or so before you eat those crops.)
thanks horseshoe - I get horse manure from my sister (got a truck load saturday) I stage it in piles. First it goes in a pile with leaves. Then when I rebuild the compost pile it goes in there in layers, then it is rotated out into another pile and used six months later - a year or more passes between truck load and use on garden. Is that safe enough?
Sounds like you have a great system down! Yes, that is plenty of time...I'm sure it cooks/decays well enuff in that length of time.
If you want to, you could also just spread the horse manure/stable sweepings in your garden in the Fall, till it under, and let it sit thru the Winter. By Spring it should be fine to plant in. (The only trouble I had with this method was when I got the horse manure from some folks who had more weeds in their pasture than they had grass. Mercy me, did that manure ever bring in the weeds!)