I am seriously looking for info from Texas gardeners, that have successfully, and not so successfully growing grapes in Texas. What type of experiences?? type of grape?? etc etc...Any advise will be most appreciated, thoughtfully considered, respectfully researched...and will be used in the growing of grapes, hopefully for winemaking.....thanks in advance~ Debra~
Anyone grow Grapes??
I had a couple of vines that struggled for a time...more my fault than theirs that they didn't succeed. I had them at the back of the lot and was too busy trying to get the rest of the space worked into some semblance of growability after the homebuilder had scraped away the native vegetation. Since you're thinking towards winemaking, much of the information available through several Texas vinters' groups should useful to you. One of them is http://www.texaswines.org
Growing grapes in Texas is a growing (pun intended) trend. I know that our area County Extension Services offer lots of information on what does & doesn't work well in our area, and it seems like I heard that you can also contact someone @ A&M for even more info. I'll see if I can get that info.
I don't have too much experience growing grapes here in central Texas. The 3 vines I planted the cows ate. Mustang grow rampant here, though. It's a race to cut them down before they engulf a tree. People around here and some history I have read say that this area used to have a wine industry before some disease killed the vines. Muscadines will grow in the area.
There is a winery just outside Giddens, but it produces poor quality wine. The owner is trying to to it all himself. Do you plan to grow grapes to sell to wineries or to start your own winery?
Either way, A & M is probably your best bet. I know this sound fecetious of me, it's not meant that way, but it takes more that just putting the right grape vines in the ground. There are so many great Calfiornia wineries because that industry relies heavily on the University of California system for research and help. Texas has a long way to go because that help is not so readily available.A & M should be able to point you in the right direction.
Betty Dee
Thanks to everyone for the info you shared....I'm going to look into A&M, see what they have to share....thanks Yuska for the great website...it's full of info. I have done some research, and have learned some helpful info...and need to find an outlet for buying grapevines...but until then I will purchase some vines locally to see how well I do~ scary huh?? I have read that Texas is 5th in grape growing, and the wineries are becoming more and more popular here..... a few years ago there was a disease that did hurt the industry....it was called Pierce's disease, but they are trying to find a resistant grape. Betty to answer your question, I plan on starting a few grapes to see how well they do, and possibly growing an acre or two of grapes for sale, or perhaps just enough to make my own home wine...nothing big~ depends on the time consumption, money etc etc....thanks for your input!! Debra~
Please keep us posted from time to time on how your project is going. And if (when!) you find good nearby sources for vines, we'll be pleased to learn about
them. I like to support our Texas resources when I can, and find that the plants that are already acclimatized are just better performers. Keep up the good work!
I have two Concord grape vines on a Arbor behind our deck. I just planted them for the vines. They are doing very well. I did have a blight problem last year, but did not catch it quick enough. When they bloom spray with a
Pyola Insect spray made with Canola Oil orEco-Oil.
The vines are very lush and hopefully this year, I should have even more grapes. They have been in the ground for 3 years now.
txsdar thanks for the info about the spray....it's surprising what I have read about so many varieties that do well here....I thought I was going to only have a very few grapes to chose from....concords...yummy! DEbra~
Debra, my DH planted grapes last summer, 2 Concords and another I forgot what. I will find out what it was. But the person you should talk to is Malcom Beck at Gardenville in San Antonio. He has a really good grapevine story. He is one of my favorite organic growing gurus. He grows Concord grapes and very successfully inspite of all the Pierce's disease problems, because he grows lots of other things, so there is no monoculture. Mary Lee
Mary thanks for the info...I know just where to find a concord grape vine....I bought several vines off EBay, and will at least try this year to get them a good start. I bought Zinfandel grapes, Thompson and a red blush table grape...these are all grafted on rootstock that is immune to the Pierce disease, so I hope they handle the hot summers...with all the websites that everyone shared here, I have tons of info to the type of trellis' available...now to chose one.. lol~ I know to most that grow grapes this is a science, to me it's a start......so all I can do is learn, research, and ask questions...and this is one of the best places to start!! Thanks to everyone!! DEbra~
Debra,
I recently bought a November/December 2004 copy of Texas Gardener. In it is a great article entitled Munson Grapes: Bred for Texas. Thomas Volney Munson (1843-1913) spent over 40 years hybridizing Texas native grapes and developing over 300 hundred new varieties that can take Texas heat, humidity, soil types and have a high level of disease resistance. Most of these varieties were lost, but apparently resurgence of the wine industry in Texas has sparked an interest in Munson grapes. "An effort is underway to locate and preserve these grapes." The article mentioned 6 of the most popular varieties: Bailey(wine grape
), Captivator(multipurpose), Carman(wine grape), Champanel(juice, jellyor wine), Ellen Scott(eating fresh or wine) and Lomanto(wine grape). Munson specialized in table grapes and several others were mentioned in the article. Four sources were mentioned: Fanick's Garden Center in San Antonio, Womack Nursery Company in DeLeon, TX, Lon Jl Rombaugh in Aurora, Oregon and Hidden Springs Nursery in Cookeville, Tennessee. How are your grapevines doidng?
BettyDee
Betty.....Well at this moment the grapevines I bought are sitting in water, rehydrating from their trip in the mail....I'll be planting them Monday, if the weather permits~
Thanks for the information on Munson grapes...I'll look into the article, and try to learn something....maybe I'll find a source online too~ I'm still trying to decide on which trellis will be the easiest to construct...truly the designs look complicated .....at least on the website I have been reading. I think I'm going to go look for an easier, (non)intimidating grape trellis plan....lol....the ones I've seen look like you'll need an architect to construct them....thanks Betty for the info! Debra~
(the following messgae brought to you by silverfluter's DH)
This may not be much help, but here it is. A simple trellis for grapes... cedar posts sunk in the ground about 2 feet, spaced 8 feet apart, leaving about 5 feet of the post above ground. Three strands of galvanized wire nailed to the posts. I looked at some of the web sites and was as confused as ever. I figured since we are not commercial growers that simplicity wins out over scientifically correct!! The idea is to give them something to climb on with spacing to allow for greater exposure of the leaves to the sun. The concord we planted last year is going to bloom this year, not sure what production it will have but it sounds like progress. Haven't seen any blooms on the fredonia as of yet. The niagra is on its first year since it didn't take last year, at least the nursery warranted that one. I took this picture today to show you just what I was talking about.
Silverfluter wanted me to relate the story from Malcolm Beck about what the folks from A&M told him about the concord grape he planted 6 years ago. They told him it would be dead in two years. HMMMMMMM He says the chemical fertilizers and pesticides have burned out the soil allowing the pierce's disease to come in and take over, he hasn't had a problem with it in his organic garden.
Lastly, my grandfather grew concord grapes in this same yard back in the 60's. They seemed to do rather well back then. We shall see how well they do this time.
This message was edited Mar 29, 2005 4:35 PM
This message was edited Mar 29, 2005 4:38 PM
silverflutters DH thanks so much for the picture and description of your wine trellis...I think this is just what I need! I will buy the cedar poles this weekend.....do you know what gauge wire I should use, or will any heavy galvanized wire work??
As for someone telling me I can't grow something...you can bet I'm going to try, and will only give up if the plant suffers and dies......if we believed everything we were ever told, this would be a very narrow.. boring world...lol~thanks again! Please keep in touch about your grapes progress....maybe we should start another thread just for grapevine talk LOL~ Debra~
Debra
The more I think about it, the more I can tell you about grapes. We lived in Germany for 6 years in the heart of German wine country. We even helped with the harvest one year. There are several vinyard and wineries here in the county, some I have contacted about growing a few grape vines. The impression I got was there is a split between commercial wine growers and the garden type producer. I got the same impression when talking to sources for vines to plant. It seems that the grapes favored by the commercial growers are not available from small nurseries and the commercial sources will not sell just a few plants. They suggested I contact a local vinyard and see if they had a few leftover vines when they were planting if I really wnated that particular type of grape. One grape I was really interested in was the "pinot noir". A winery I visited told me that grape has a much higher level of antioxidants in it. But I could not locate a source to get a few vines. I just missed a local vinyard that had already planted them before I started looking.
I understand your desire to research and proceed with the best information available. Thats why we are here sharing all kinds of information........... right?
One bit of useful information I just thought about, and this is me talking, but you might consider regardless of how many you plant. Orient the row in a north/south direction if at all possible. Fortunately the streets in our neighborhood are laid out on the compass. The row I planted is indeed north south oriented. The idea is to give maximun exposure to the sun. It may not be as big a deal here in sunny Texas, but in Germany the vinyards COUNT the number of days the sun shines on their grapevines.
As far as starting another thread just for grapevine talk.... ahhhhh.... has anything besides grapes been discussed here???? hmmmmmmm
Talk it up... do you have any specific concerns or questions.... I really did a lot of research on this before we bought grapes last year... pick my brains for all they are worth... well... maybe for more than they are worth... lol.... Tom
You bet I have questions....I do want to share the EBay seller I bought my grapevines from...go check out the goodies he has...
http://stores.ebay.com/Rockin-L-Ranch_W0QQssPageNameZl2QQtZkm
I believe he has the pinot noir...I bought my zinfandel vines from him, the plants I bought were all strong, hardy looking stock, the more you buy the more you save on shipping....he sells from 1 to 100 vines...
I will be planting my vines so they get at least10 hours full sun, all morning, afternoon, and dappled, protected hot late afternoon sun...one of the conflicting problems I've read is the misconception of soil requirements~ I do know that a grape doesn't like wet feet....but I've read that grapes don't like fussy soil, they thrive in poor soil....then I read they like a rich soil.....what's a grape grower wannabe have to do?? lol Debra~
Debra,
Since all grape vines don't have the same root, soil requirements can differ depending on the grape variety and its root stock. It looks like you have been getting generalizations: "grapes don't like fussy soil, they thrive in poor soil," etc. If by fussy soil they mean a soil rich in humus and nutrients, the availability of all that "food" redirects the vine into producing vegetative grown at the expense of fruit. So producing grapevines need small to moderate amounts of fertilizer. They don't "thrive" in poor soil if it is truely poor. The vine does need some nutrients to produce leaves and grapes. The enclosed link has very good information about soil requirements. A grape grower wannabe needs to have a good basic understanding of his soil and climate. Then read everyting you can on the soil and climate needs of each variety you are interested in. There are really great grapes that make excellent wine, but the need cooler climates than Texas can provide. One last reminder, try to get your information from university sources. They are not trying to sell you a product.
Sorry if this comes across as strong, It's just the teacher in me.
Veronica
http://www.umass.edu/plsoils/soiltest/grapetest1.htm
Debbie
Thanks for the link... I have 2 pinot's on the way now. The hardest part was finding a place to plant them. I kinda thought there would be a site like that to buy commercial variety grapes in small quantities, but I just never found it... thanks again.
Veronica
That link brought me back to my Agonomy 301 class days... geez... its amazing what info is still locked away up there in the grey matter, just needs something to hit the recall button. The one thing they didn.t mention that may be useful is the soil survey maps available from your county extension agent. The soil survey will tell you generally what soil type you have and considerations there may be for your particular crop. This actually opens a can of worms because the soil survey map is just the beginning. It can be useful, but is not the answer to all concerns for sure. More later.... Tom
Tom,
You are right about the soil survey maps. I picked up a copy not that long ago. The map also provides the approximate depth of each layer. It's a good starting point and it does point out potential problem sites. We have two areas that have "poor plant/soil contact." Haven't had a chance to find out what the cause is, but the forage in those areas brown out sooner than any others.
Veronica
I look at it this way....in my garden I can amend the soil for what I might grow...this includes grapes. I have grown bananas, gingers, palms, Bird of paradise...these are all tropical plants....what I'm afraid of is the temps don't get cool enough at night for the grape.....now I love growing plants , but setting up an air conditioner in the garden at night is out of the question.....lol...but you can bet I'm going to give the grape one heck of a try~ I've been asking questions, and reading alot of info.....what I want to understand, is why one grape grows in a certain environment, and another won't...I understand why some fruit trees, peonies and assorted other plants don't do well....but one grape will thrive here, and others won't....such is the mystery of Mother nature~ Debra~
Debra
One problem is that we could write volumes and volumes on what we DON'T know about gardening and growing plants. But as far as what we do know, here is another tidbit that might be of help. Root stock could be one answer. In my dealings with the grape suppliers and others in the industry, root stock selection is very important. The type of grape is just half the story, if the root stock is not right for your soil, you will not have much success.
As far as other plants and where they "like" to grow", consider evolution. Plants have been working on finding their own little niche in nature for millions of years. Some have evolved to be very adaptable and other are very specific. Some plants may not be very tolerant of certain micro climate conditions... its all a big puzzle that keeps us gardeners interesting in finding another peice to fit together.
.... ok... we have heard from the teacher, now the philosopher... who is next... have a good day... Tom
consider the bonsai naturally growing in nature.....hanging with tiny strong roots..adapting, fighting the elements......natural threats or just growing conditions in general...the stronger plant will succeed, and by doing so will create, mesmerize, and shock those...that once said it can't be done~just remember at one time there was just one grapevine....one grape...as with the daylily, once there was just the orange....we as gardeners have the responsibility to believe....we also can help the process along the way....
Debra
About how long did it take you to get your grapes from that E-bay site? Just curious, the ground is waiting for them. Thanks... Tom
Hmmm it only took a week....if I remember right~maybe I beat the spring rush~
Thanks.... its only been about a week now so I shouldn't worry yet, seems like 2 weeks.
I got the grapes and put them in the ground Monday, they do look healthy. The stock is much older and thicker than the other grapes I ordered from other sites. Thanks again... Tom
Tom ...Glad to hear the grapes arrived, nothing like worrying about plants arriving through the mail~ so what type of grape did you buy?? Debra~
I got two of the pinot noir.... have room for one more still, not sure what it will be. Something special for sure... but I don't have a clue what that might be. Maybe I will look around for suggestions. One thing I am wondering about is the pruning suggestions I have read about. I have some second year grapes that are fixing to bloom. I have read that most of these blooms should be pruned. On the other hand... I have heard that most pruning of any plant is for the owner's benefit... not the plant. Its not like I need maximun production of quality grapes... just something I can take from the vine and enjoy as a healthy snack. Any practical experience on the repercussions pruning or the lack thereof?? Tom
Pruning while the grapevine is still dormant would take care of most overproduction. Once you have your horizontal leaders established, pruning down to a few vertical eyes gives you stronger growing fruiting branches. Pinching off many of the little clusters of flowers allows those that are left to produce bigger grapes. Every once in a while, I didn't prune or pinch my grapevines because I was ill and that year I would get small grapes or partial clusters of small grapes. I just bought 2 Glenora grapevines. They are supposed to produce large sweet blue-black grapes.
I would like to try pruning techniques with the mustang grapes that grow wild around here, but I haven't found a grapevine growing in an acceptable spot. Most are growing up our trees and must go or are growing on old fencing. As we replace fences, we're clearing off all brush.
well I wanted to let you know that I have placed my grapevines in containers this year....I wanted to learn as much as possible before planting them into the ground. I've read quite a bit about Pierce's disease, especially in SE Texas where it's humid.....so I'm going to read what I can...I did learn that grapes can be container grown, so that was good news.....I imagine I'll do some pruning...but not until I know what the heck I'm doing~ I have to admit though, it would be hard to cut the tiny flower clusters, knowing they would soon be grapes..lol~ Debra~
Ok... they been in the ground 10 days now... no real signs of life... should I be concerned?
Use your fingernail and make a tiny scratch into the bark. If you see the green cambium layer, your grapevine is alive. This is what I do when I'm really curious. It could be that they are establishing a good root system.
Were the vines bareroot when you received them? January is the recommended month for planting bareroot. This gives the transplant plenty of time to get established before hot weather starts.
I've purchased bareroot trees as late as early April, but I've purchased from nurseries that garantee their trees have been kept in a dormant state. So far, they have all survived.
I soaked my vines for 3 days, maybe even longer, before I planted them. I'm sure your vines are fine...just keep them watered, as long as they aren't sitting in water...they'll start leafing out.....
I did the cambium test, one seems to be fine, the other is definitely just a stick in the ground... dry as a bone. I did notice what seems to be a bud bulging out on the live one yesterday, so it should do fine.
I e-mailed the vendor about replacing the dead one and to order a vine for my empty space. We shall se what happens... thanks for the cambium test idea... Tom
Debra,
Its been less than 10 hours and I already have a response. He will replace the dead vine and he will pay shipping also. You can't beat that. I also ordered an Autumn Royal to fill out my collection. Thanks again for the link... Tom
Have you tried to talk to the vineyards in Austin. We went a few weeks ago and they all seemed SO nice the one that had a nice size section of grapes is named humm *runs to grab the bottle of wine of the rack* Spicewood Vineyards. Maybe they could help you, as I said they seemed very friendly.
http://www.spicewoodvineyards.com
I have not talked to any of the vineyards in Austin, but I did talk to several vineyards near Fredericksburg. They were helpful in many ways, but could not tell me where to buy one or two grape vines. Their sources were strictly wholesale. The smallest order they would ship was 25 vines. Thanks for the post... Tom
I received my replacement vine friday and my final in the collection... Autumn Royal. While they are fresh in the ground, below is the status of last year's vines!!!
Are you planning on removing those?? They say to remove the first blooms, but that has to be a very hard thing to do, as any gardener knows that what we live for, is seeing the plant thrive.....snipping off the fruit or bloom is a hard thing to do~ By the way did I mention that this season I am container growing my grapes?? Debra~
I already snipped off about half of the blooms. These are the result of the leftovers. The plants are looking healthy.
How big are the containers you are using? What made you decide to go to containers? Just curious ?