Turning lawn into garden

Ottawa, ON(Zone 5a)

We have an area of dry clay soil with a pitiful bit of lawn at the front of our house, that I want to turn into an area of shrubs, groundcovers & alpines so we never have to mow it again :-) I'm going for an ecologically-sound solution - probably either covering it with newspaper for several weeks, or turning the sod over & letting it decompose, or both.

Part of this plot is under an Austrian pine, part under a juniper shrub and the rest in the sun. Has anyone converted lawn into garden and have any hard-earned lessons that they wouldn't mind sharing? Anyone have any luck with anything that grows well under pine?

Shannon

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My advice would be wait until the snow melts. LOL. Sorry, couldn't help myself.

Ottawa, ON(Zone 5a)

lolol Jeanne! Sheesh. OK, lemme see if I have a summer picture around somewhere.... :-)

Ottawa, ON(Zone 5a)

OK, here's one...sort of.... everything to the right of the car. It's actually a pretty small area....lots of low-hanging branches, so it's annoying to mow.



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Winnipeg,, MB(Zone 3a)

I have removed all the grass in my front yard I dug it all up ,
but you could do the newspaper , but you must put a thick layer down, also after you plant what you want ,you could put mulch around the plants and also any plant that would like acid soil woud be great to put under your pine tree, I found that lungworth grew really good for me,
here is a picture of part of my front yard so you get the idea..

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Castlegar, BC(Zone 6b)

I wish I could comment to give you some advice Shannon. But as I have never attemped something like that, I can't. But as you said, it's not a very big area, so it wouldn't seem to be a big project. Still work, of course, but if you imagine shrubs, alpines and flowers in that space, I bet it will look really nice.

dillpickle, that looks pretty. Ever considered some sort of small water garden in that space too?



This message was edited Feb 11, 2005 4:42 PM

Winnipeg, MB(Zone 2b)

Wilma put up pix of your water features NOW and in the summer!!!
Ginny

Winnipeg,, MB(Zone 3a)

my water features are in the back yard
will look for a picture and send in
Wilma

Winnipeg,, MB(Zone 3a)

my ponds in the back yard,,

Thumbnail by dillpickle
Winnipeg,, MB(Zone 3a)

another view,

Thumbnail by dillpickle
Castlegar, BC(Zone 6b)

Ah, yes. Very nice. I love water gardens. Thanks for sharing. I never get tired of looking at water features. When I get my new pond and waterfall running this Spring, I'll take some pictures too, and post them. Thanks Wilma.

Dillpickle, those are wonderful shots, and they look so serene and lovely. I love your idea for a front yard too, no lawn to mow! That's great.

Back to Shannon's yard though. I have heavy clay in my backyard, the north side, but it holds the water as we're very near a lake. For my small perennial garden, I dumped in several bags of triple mix and I dug and dug and dug as much as I could to mix it in with the clay; plants grow very nicely there. Last summer, I created a garden at the front, I dug the sod out to about 6-8" and filled the space up with the triple mix, but didn't bother mixing it with the clay (my back popped out the next day anyway...ouch). This is its first spring so I'll see in a few weeks if my perennials come back. So, that's my experience so far here. Hope it helps you.

Christine.

Campbell River, BC(Zone 8a)

Shannon, it would probably work faster to cover the grass with black plastic if you want to kill it first before you turn it over. I know some people who did that in an area they wanted to convert from lawn to garden.

I love your water gardens Wilma. I'd love to have one like that but we already don't have any lawn in our yard to convert.

Ottawa, ON(Zone 5a)

Thanks for the encouragement, Donna & everyone! :-) My back is hurting just thinking about this job, but I think it'll be worth it. We'll have to put metal spikes & a snow fence around it in winter, though, on the street side - the snowdrifts from the plows can be 4 feet high, and they use lots of salt here.

Wilma, your front yard looks beautiful!! Thanks for sending the pic - it's great inspiration. Exactly the type of plantings I had in mind, but I was having trouble envisioning it. And I love your water gardens too.

Christine, thanks for the tips too. I'm glad to hear about your clay experience. Looking forward to pics in the spring!!! (or now, if you have some of the work in progress, or of your small perennial garden.) Back problems - ouch. I'm all too familiar with them. Never really understood how debilitating they were, until experiencing it first-hand. Hope it's not bothering you these days.

Just last week we learned in our Soils & Fertilizers class that water doesn't like to migrate from one soil texture class to another, eg. clay to sandy or whatever. When the water sits in one layer on top of another one it's called a "perched water table", and many golf courses apparently do it on purpose to reduce the amt of water they need. So, your water should pool nicely on top of the clay, and be more available in your triple-mix. Conversely, the perennials' roots may not grow further down than where the clay starts, and would grow outwards instead. This soil-layer business is apparently a big problem in some new housing developments, where the builder puts topsoil down on top of clay - the homeowners then water their lawns faster than the rate of infiltration, as most people do, and it can take as little as 3 years for the resulting erosion to wash all their new topsoil down the sewers!!

Our prof's solution to almost any lawn problem is to toss coffee grounds onto it every day...the worms & other soil organisms come up & eat the grounds, and in doing so they mix & amend the soil. She says it's the lazy way of keeping your lawn in good shape.....woo-hoo! Lazy is good. :-)

Sandy,
I'd heard that that might be a good way to go, too - both cover, and then turn over. I think that's what I'll do. The faster the better! I wonder if it's possible to get the grass killed, turned over & the area planted all in one growing season? Guess the plants would need extra winter protection that first year - ??

I have a couple of good books on the topic of front yard gardens...Taunton's Front Yard Idea Book has some beautiful pics, but I especially like Liz Primeau's Front Yard Gardens: Growing More Than Grass.

http://davesgarden.com/gbw/c/297/

She tells the whole story of how she gradually turned her suburban front yard from lawn to garden, over the protestations of her husband and the imagined protestations of her neighbours. They ended up really liking it, by her account. It's a really good read, lots of good tips & plant lists, full of gorgeous photos. And Canadian!

Thanks for the tip about lungwort, Wilma. Guess it's time to draw a plan & make up a plant list. Hmm....good plants for dry shade in acidic clay under a pine tree....eek.

Shannon




Castlegar, BC(Zone 6b)

Sounds like an exciting project, shannon. I wish you good luck with it. I know, from all the tips and excellent reading material, that it is gonna look great. Ihope you'll kee uus posted in it's development. You professor's lawn idea is very interesting. I have never heard anything like it. Kinda of an addition to fertilizer, I guess huh? My problem is, we couldn't drink enough coffee to provide our lawn with grounds. We have a big yard and lots of grass.

So Gatineau made tha National news last night. I hope you are not planning a shopping trip to your local Walmart anytime soon. Could be dangerous! Plan instead on going to the famous Ottawa Winterlude this weekend. Sounds like lots of fun. I have always wished I could go to Ottawa and skate that famous Rideau Canal.

Ottawa, ON(Zone 5a)

Yeah, I heard about that too! Yikes. Fortunately I'm one of those avid Wal-Mart avoiders...never thought it could be good for the health tho'! lol

I think her coffee grounds idea is instead of fertilizer - as she frequently jokes, the answer to almost any question in class is "organic matter". But mind you, that particular solution works well for the clay soils that are so common here - I think in another region, there would be something else that would be used for top-dressing instead.

Starbucks et. al. give away coffee grounds for free (imagine! ;-) - apparently landscapers, around here anyway, have been taking advantage of that for years.

Oh, the Rideau Canal is so much fun! The ice conditions can be rough, tho' - cause of all the people, & the sun warming it up...it's best to catch it in the morning if you can. Donna, if you go to this link and click on 'Virtual Tour', you can be here on the canal! After the new window opens, click on 'Skate the Canal', and watch out for motion sickness....lol The virtual skate starts downtown by the Nat'l Arts Centre and ends up at Dow's Lake, which is in the opposite direction from their little diagram.

http://www.canadascapital.gc.ca/skateway/conditions/index_e.asp?bhcp=1

I have a choir audition tomorrow, a job interview on Monday and a Botany mid-term on Tuesday.... :-( ....so I'm going to stay put this weekend even tho' it's Winterlude.... now the challenge is not to spend the next 4 hours DG-ing instead....lol

Shannon

Campbell River, BC(Zone 8a)

That's pretty cool Shannon, thanks.

Moose Jaw, SK(Zone 3b)

Shannon we're lookin' forward to seeing your yard as it evolves into a gardener's eye candy!

Dillpickle your ponds are gorgeous!!! Ü

Castlegar, BC(Zone 6b)

Shannon, that was too kewell....I loved it. I swear, I was skating, a little faster than normal, mind you, but it felt like I really did it. Thanks so much!

Good luck with your studying, audition and interview. You deserve to "ace 'em" all! You Go Girl!

Moose Jaw, SK(Zone 3b)

Ooooops missed the audition, test and interview..........crossing fingers and toes for you but know you'll ace them all!

Ottawa, ON(Zone 5a)

Thanks! :-) I really appreciate the confidence boost.

Wow, Shannon, there's nothing like a whole heap of stress to keep you sharp!! You really are a multi-faceted gardener! I hope you get the choir position, the job and ace the mid-term. Life is too short to have few interests. Good luck!

Ottawa, ON(Zone 5a)

Thanks, Christine! I'd wither up & die if I couldn't pursue a bunch of different things whenever the mood strikes. The choir audition went ok...I think I sounded like heck, but my friend who was listening said it went pretty well. The director's supposed to call next week. Now it's on to the job interview tomorrow.

BTW, one of my prize brug seeds from Jeanne has a root!!! Three went mouldy last week, and the 5th is still thinking about the whole thing....I'm so excited! Of course, now I have to figure out where in our house to put a 10-foot tree...lol

Lois Hole recommends, for dry, acidic shade: Bishop's Hat, Elephant-Ears, Goatsbeard, Goutweed, Lily-of-the-Valley, lungwort and Solomon's Seal. I like the looks of the Bishop's Hat and Elephant-Ears - has anyone had positive or negative experiences with these?

It was a beautiful, sunny day here in west Quebec, for once. Hope everyone's had a good weekend. :-)

Shannon

Winnipeg,, MB(Zone 3a)

Gout weed spreads really bad, will take over if it is not under control.
the other plants you mention sound great,,
What about a bleeding heart, those are always very pretty too..

Winnipeg,, MB(Zone 3a)

spklatt
glad I could help you out, sometimes just seeing what someone else does helps.
Have you thought about Hosta plants??
and thanks everyone who like my front yard and water gardens..

Wilma

Campbell River, BC(Zone 8a)

I asked my dad what would grow in those conditions because he's pretty knowledgeable when it comes to gardening and he suggested azaleas. He said you can get low growing ones if they need to be short to grow under the pine tree. He said Blue Diamond or Blue Tit are some of the best. Now he said that not me Donna!! LOL

Good luck with the job interview tomorrow Shannon and the test on Tuesday.

Castlegar, BC(Zone 6b)

R~e~a~l~l~y!! And did Dad mean Bigleaf Hydrangea, Lacecap 'Blue Titmouse' or Hydrangea macrophylla Hosta 'Academy Blue Titan'Hosta?

Campbell River, BC(Zone 8a)

LOL No, I don't think so Donna, unless they're azaleas.

Campbell River, BC(Zone 8a)

I have the Canadian Encyclopedia of Gardening out from the library. I looked up plants that require acidic soil. Here's the list. They're all perennials.
Anigozanthos manglesii, Cypripedium reginae, Darlingtonia, Drosera, Gentiana (many), Nepenthes, Pinguicula, Sarracenia flava, Shortia galacifolia, Trillium and Uvularia.

I only recognize a few.

Castlegar, BC(Zone 6b)

I was just funin' Sandy. I typed Blue Tit into the PF and they were the two that came up. Probably not what dear ole Dad meant.

Good Luck with the interview, Shannon. Better you than me. Hope you don't get "sweaty palms" like I used to. :Donna

Campbell River, BC(Zone 8a)

You never know what you're going to come up with typing in something like that Donna. LOL I should look them up on google because I don't know what they're like. Heaven knows where I'm likely to end up doing that though.

Campbell River, BC(Zone 8a)

Looks like they're both small rhododendrons. Very nice but then I'm partial to anything blue.

Castlegar, BC(Zone 6b)

You and me both, Sandy! Now I want one. But I am sure as heck am not going to ask for it using that name! I had better do some more research. Thanks for the "tip"...I did say "tip", now! LOL

Campbell River, BC(Zone 8a)

:-)

Edmonton, AB(Zone 3a)

I like my lungwort and my ears. And yest goutweed can do you in. We planted it about 10 years ago as a ground cover on the ravine slope to prevent erosion. It has done a good job of that to be sure by I weed it out of every where else. I am sure you would do well with hostas.

Ottawa, ON(Zone 5a)

Thanks, Lynn - I am thinking about hostas as well. They're already ubiquitous here, tho'. My dad in Saskatoon has goutweed and lily-of-the-valley on opposite sides of a sidewalk in their back yard, and they each grew under the sidewalk and showed up on the other's side! I hear that with goutweed you have to install a barrier to a min. depth of 18 inches. I like the stuff, but if it gets away it can be impossible to control.

Edmonton, AB(Zone 3a)

I also find the astilbe does well in my north facing and heavily treed area and provides a fair bit of colour, i do have azaleas and a rhody but i think the azaleas could use more sun, the primula do really well because they are early, and of course there a lot of wonderful ferns. I also have sand cherries and flowering almond but they would be too big for under the firs. I have alpine speedwell, japanese spurge and ornamental strawberries for groundcover under and around the firs and deciduous stuff and they seem to spread nicely although not quickly, so does the creeping jenny come to think of it. I just have to constantly battle the volunteer creeping charley and loosestrife that was in the ravine to start with.

Victoria, BC(Zone 8b)

For our garden that's under the fir tree, with lots of needle and cone drop, we have good showing with lily of the valley, lots and lots of winter heather that is doing really well. The heather is doing so well that when it's too big and over flows the garden, it gets trimmed when I mow the lawn,vrooommmmmmm! The other thing i have there that is doing do well, is the camellia tree. The bleeding hearts come up year after year, I have to use a tomatoe cage to keep them from breaking off because of the wind.

Linda

Winnipeg, MB(Zone 2b)

Islanders, I'll really have to pick your brains during RU. My DD has killed the ericas I bought for her, plus she has now killed a japanese maple apparently. So, have to give her written instructions I think. Gave her the Readers Digest book when they bought their house .... Doesn't seem to have helped.

Does have lots of camellias and rhodies - thinking of cuttings for all who want them -

Back to thread subject. Last fall I covered a piece of lawn 24 x 25 ft with lots of newspaper. I intend to buy a load of 4 way mix to make a bed there. Far too much to dig This will be mainly my veggie bed, along with marigolds to try and keep munchers away.
Ginny



Ottawa, ON(Zone 5a)

Ginny, do you think it will settle down eventually to be roughly the same height as it was before, or will it be a raised bed?

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