What grows in the dark, practically?

Don't give up on Dahlia's. Some of the new cultivars only get to about 2 feet tall. And I'm sure that they would look smashing against your fence. One word of caution. Some Dahlias are more heat resistant than others. I've had a couple that have performed well but sagged every afternoon. Nemesia is fun too - and evergreen with great flowers. I have a very fuzzy photo. It gets about 2 feet by 2feet. Great size for a walkway. This cultivar is "Sunsatia Peach" or "Sonsatia peach".

This message was edited Mar 7, 2005 1:14 PM

Okay, Doss, you're making me crazy! LOL That's another one I have to go check out.

Now here's a dahlia! I think it got about six foot this past summer and I had to tie it to my fence.

That IS quite a Dahlia. I how I do love them. They bloom and bloom and bloom. This is a link to Brecks with the border dahlias. White flower Farm is supposed to be carrying some very special ones from Europe that I saw on TV. They were fabulous. I wrote WWF and they weren't sure that they would carry them but the grower says that they have an exclusive contract.

http://www.dutchgardens.com/Shopping/sell.asp?cm_ven=e-mail&cm_cat=Commerce&cm_pla=Feb05&cm_ite=sell&SC=HKA70011&ProdGroupID=17554&DeptPGID=21094

Many of the growers have heights for their cultivars and there are lots of smaller ones. "Prince Charming" is all white and there are a lot of colorful ones.

Here is a page from Swan Island Dahlias that are all dwarves.

https://www.dahlias.com/cgi-bin/web_store/web_store.cgi

Then you can spend the rest of the afternoon shopping for Dahlias.

OMG, girl, you have done it now. Those dwarf dahlias are gotta haves. Do you know anything about Swan Island? I'm going to check the Watch Dog now.

Oh am I evil? You betcha!! I have quite a few on order myself. I've never ordered from them before. Always from Parks. But the Watchdog has only 1 neg out of 9. I never worry about one if there are other positives. I've received quick emails from Swan when I had questions about my order.

I'm glad you were all able to entertain yourselves while we waiting on my soil test results.

I have them back! And, as enlightening as it may seem, I haven't the vaguest clue what any of this means. This is probably why I haven't submitted soil for analysis in the past!

So, right off the paper, I'll share with you my results if some of you experts would tell me what these results mean. Now that I'm armed with information, I still don't know what my enemy is!

The paper says the targe pH is 6.0 and the pH value for my sample is 6.0. I think that's slightly acidic and probably basically a good thing. I think Camellias would like this corner, if they every saw daylight. (It's the other stuff I don't know what they mean.)

Phosphorus was rated very high at 112 ppm.
Potassium was rated medium at 42 ppm.
Magnesium was rated very high at 68 ppm.
Calcium was not rated (there's no bar on the chart, whatever that means) but came up as 759 ppm.

I suspect this fishtank gravel is some sort of calcium-based rock. Or I sampled a piece of cheese that just looked like soil! ;>)

The Univ. of FL recommends that I apply nitrogen at 2.30 pounds per 1000 sq. ft. and 0.70 lbs of potassium per 1000 sq. ft.

There is not a lot of other information on the page. This is what $7 will get you in the state of Florida! Please do tell... what does all this mean? Besides there's no light in the Dark Corner o Death (tm)?

I am making you crazy! That's not a Nierembergia at all. Its a Nemesia. Here's a link to the plant files. (I edited the previous entry so it's right now.

http://davesgarden.com/pf/go/64016/index.html

I have no idea what the report means either. Why don't you try to call them and ask - or ask your garden center - or there is the soil and fertilizer forum here.

As far as Camellias, I have some that grow, and bloom in zero sun. They will even make it under a walnut tree. I have many against north fence walls, under big trees and they do fine. Just make sure that you get a good cultivar for shade. My MD's office has them in a narrow (8 foot) walkway between two three story buildngs and they do fine there too. Along with the Bergenia.

This message was edited Mar 7, 2005 1:15 PM

Camellias would certainly be easy to ignore and, well, my dog would always have snacks in the winter!

I think I'll call the local extension people before I try to call Gainesville.

YUM!

Dogzilla,
I have 2 "Dark Corner of Death" areas, one on the north side of my house the other under a hugh Live Oak & am in Zone 8b. There are several plants that do like this condition. Here is a list of plants I have that have done well:

Bletilla - chinese ground orchid (there is a new yellow flowered one that I just got)
Pieris japonica - Temple Bells
Polystichum acrostichoides - Christmas fern
Ajuga - great ground cover
Asarum caudatum - Wild ginger
Kalmia latifolia - Mountain Laurel
Leucothoe - Fetterbush
Lobelia Cardinalis
Polygonatum - Solomon's Seal
Tricyrtis - Toad Lily
Ostrich Fern
Cyrtomium falcatum - Holly Fern
Fuchsia
Astilbe
Abelia 'Sunrise'
Dryopteris Erythrosora - Autumn fern
Mahonia aquifolium - Oregon Grape Holly
Plumbago 'Blue'
Odontonema strictum - Firespike
Bergenia
Salvia 'Koyamae' - beautiful yellow flower spikes in fall

Hope this helps.

You know, I just realized that I have several Abutilons that grow in deep shade. They are evergreen here and bloom 12 months of the year. And come in tons of colors. They may tell you that they don't grow in deep shade - but it's not true.

http://davesgarden.com/pf/search.php?search_text=abutilon

Here is also a photo of a red leaved Lorapetalum which is blooming now. You can keep it this low with pruning or let it get taller. This one gets no direct sun.

Here's a great, beautiful book full of nothing but ideas, and a lot of shade gardens. Get it from the library - it's an expensive pictoral book. "Strange Beauty" by Thomas Hobbes, or any book by him will give you just delicious ideas.

dogzilla
There is a fantastic book called Garden Perennials for the Coastal South By Barbara J. Sullivan of Wilmington NC.It came out last year.I wish that I had had it when I first started gardening in this area.I would have saved alot of time and money.Knowing your hardiness zone doesn't tell you everything.

Doss,
Can you give us any more information on the book "Strange Beauty" by Thomas Hobbes? Who is the publisher. I tried to look it up here at DG and on Google with no luck.
Thanks,S

Did you try a search on Amazon?

Oh NO! The name of the book is "Shocking Beauty". I am So sorry - don't know where my head was. It was first published by Periplus Editions (HK) ltd. and distributed by Tuttle Publishing. It's ISBN number is 962-593-542-8. It has almost 200 color photographs of some of the most striking gardens I've ever seen. I have one of his other books which I love also, but again, get it from the library unless you really use this kind of book. It has a $35.00 cover price. I will get the name of the other one but right now the dogs are sleeping in the room with my gardening books and, you know, let sleeping dogs lie.. They don't like to be disturbed this early in the morning.. :-)

Well, I have spent entirely too long reading nearly this ENTIRE thread! I admit I did skip a few parts, but read many, many of the posts :) Now that I'm in the stream-of-consciousness zone from reading everyone's comments, I wanted to make sure I don't forget a couple of things.

Firstly, a while back you all were asking about redbuds. Yes, they take shade well. Also, here they get about 30' max, but maybe FA is different. This is Cercis canadensis I'm talking about. Also, Fringe Tree will also take a bunch of shade and grows only about 15' high here. Chionad...something or other is the latin for the "fringe tree" I'm meaning. Only wanted to clear up any possible regional common name differences. Funny these 2 trees got mentioned. I'm thinking of planting both next month.

Patio is definitely the way to go, IMHO. You could easily plant one of the smaller trees off-center for a nice focal point. Brainstorming now.... have you seen the cast iron-looking half baskets that hang on walls? One or two of them might be a nice way to add interest higher up on your fence. OR, depending on your style, what about finding some used window frames and hanging one or two of those on the fence with flowerboxes under them. Nice trailing shade lovers could look great coming out of the flowerboxes. If $$$ permits, I think a bench swing would look nice placed on an angle in that corner (with the patio beneath). I picture a wooden one w/o the canopy. Also liked Doss' suggestion to make a few raised beds in the area...

As far as your soil test goes, seems to me all you really need to pay attention to is their suggestions. Scrape off the gravel, cultivate the soil under it, and amend as needed. There are both organic and chemical sources of these soil nutrients. You could post a thread in the Soil forum or Organic Gardening forum to ask for the best amendments for these :)

BTW, I'm not planting Leatherleaf Viburnum anymore. I got the utilities marked the other day (because we're mapping out our new beds) and the viburnum just isn't going to work. Good news is that the path in that dark corner area now has to go in a different place than originally planned and now there is a little less corner of death :) Why I didn't think of that beforehand I cannot say. LOL. So, I think I'll leave a little space in the very corner, corner and plant out a bit where atleast part of the plants can reach out for sun a few hours each day :)

Have you started doing anything to your corner, yet? All this great advice! The pressure's on!!! :)

BTW, cannot stand Purple Loosestrife! A very successful (and pricey) nursery has it planted in their display gardens and I just get sick over it. It's such a major bully in so many states, taking over tons and tons of natural habitats. Ugh. People drive by that nursery all the time, and because the plant truly is striking they ask what it is, the nursery tells them with a smile, and people go home with this horrid plant, pleased as punch! Wow, okay, Huga got a little carried away there! :) LOL -- I'm calming down now. 1...2....3...4.... feeling better. Whew!

Hope to hear more fo your progress soon! I've enjoyed your thread a ton :)

Hugs :) edited for typos in this extremely long-winded, late night post

This message was edited Mar 31, 2005 11:47 PM

Hi! I'm here again. There is a website that will make custom fertilizer if you send them a soil sample. It's expensive but I thought that I'd mention it.

http://www.gardensalive.com/product.asp?pn=8520&ss=custom%20fert

Also, my granddaughter brought a camellia to me today - and the puppy chewed on it for quite awhile before I caught her. I agreed with her. It smelled delicious. (LOL) It made me think of you.

Thanks hughosta, for sticking with that whole thread. Ironically, I bought an outdoor shower from Target and am focusing all my efforts on the exact opposite Bright Corner of Light! LOL. Now I'm building a stepping stone path from the shower to the back deck (so I can get inside and keep my feet clean). Eventually the path will meander around to the Dark Corner of Death, at which point I will resurrect this thread and make a plant wish list. Also, in the meantime, I've spoken with my local native nursery and they agree: I should really compost and leave the area alone for a while and let nutrients work their way in, along with worms and grubs and other beneficial critters. I've come to the conclusion that, since nothing was alive in the soil when I took samples, it is in most dire need of organic matter to break down. I have tons of compost -- just dreading the work!

And thanks, doss, the camellia eating puppy image made me smile. You should have gotten a picture. I never thought my dog would be cuter except when he's munching on a flower.

Hmm.. I have read this thread with interest as I have a very dark area on the north side of my house. Bounded by several mature norway spruces with some scraggly sedum, potentilla and weedage underneath. I think it will grow stuff but it's a huge area and I tend to get overwhelmed easily..lol.. esp when you don't see results quickly. I have considered huge containers with hostas to give some layering interest but the thought of dragging them into the garage in the winter isn't thrilling.. I am finding that the idea is less annoying as the years pass.. perhaps the gardening bug is taking over? Anyway..I have been considering primroses for some color..last year I tried coleus.. the bugs loved them

Jazz, you may want to run a DG search on hostas in containers. The general concensus is that if you choose the right material for your container, your hostas will over winter outside just fine :) No need to move them at all!

BUT, they like the smallest containers for their size, not too much extra room, so maybe not huge containers... lots of good info if you search :) Also, most hostas don't do great in total shade, they need a bot more light than most folks think. The all-green or bluer hostas are better for deeper shade than gold or variegated ones, but all of them need a bit of sunlight. Dappled is great if your trees provide that :) Hope you figure out that tough spot!

Hugs :)

I love Hostas in pots! The slugs don't get to them so badly that way. It's warm in my area though so I don't have to worry about frost. I do have to put those water-holding jelly things in with them since it's so dry here though. And I have them in a very dark place under a walnut tree. I'll take a few photos although they are barely up. If you are interested, I think that Plant delights nursery is a good resource. You can sort Hosta's by every color variation and then they will give you the size that goes with it. Once you look at the Hosta they will give you the light requirements. But you can scroll through their huge Hosta inventory and just look at light requirements too.

I probably don't have such a problem with shade because it's so hot here. They don't really like the sun here even though they are supposed to.

It's too bad that the blue ones like the shade better though because the yellow ones sure brighten up dark corners.

Dogz,

I am one of the latecomers here to your thread. I wish I had more time to speak with you at Florala, geeze, I had so little time, didn't even meet a fraction of the people there. Couldn't put a name to a face if my life depended on it.

But I sure do remember that Dirt Cake..........

You have a great sense of humor, I could wet my pants over some of your anecdotes. I have run across your motto "Friends don't let friends" many times over the past few days, but I think having gone down through 141 entries in this posting, I'm gonna take the risk and say this:

ROOT BEER PLANTS!!!!! underplanted with coleus for variation in colors. The root beer will grow tall. I'll bet they would do well without even amending. I have an "Inky Fingers" that never did so well until it was planted by root beers.

Okay, I'm hiding behind the fence now, go ahead and throw your rotten eggs at me.

Molly
:^))))

Don't even know what a root beer plant is! I'll look 'em up and check 'em out.

Did you know there's another roundup in Jax in May? ;>)

Maybe I can get the root beer plants there. Are these like Spiderwort Syndrome? Most people will hate them, but it'll fill a hole so I might like 'em?

Glad to meet you as well -- All I can remember is I got the Chili II Hot pepper plant from you, about two seconds before I jumped in the car to head home. Squirrels have NOT eaten the pepper yet! ;>)

DogZ,

I got my root beer from JustmeLisa. Won them in an auction at the KYRU last fall. Since then, I found they are growing right around the corner in the yard where my son used to live.

They will have no trouble growing, thats for sure, but they would do well in your spot, like you said fill the gap. Here's a picture. This had 2 leaves on it in October. It's the big green leaves in the center.

I am making some adjustments in this corner for some of the EE's and ferns, but I think it will give me a little more needed shade for some of the other sensitive plants.

I have been watching the thread on the Jax Swap, but after this last trip, with the auto repair, 2 tows and fuel prices, I need to re-coop my pocketbook before taking another trip. Wish I could make it though.

Molly
:^)))

Ooo! Those are purdy (as they say up here). Look like little elephant ears. I bet I can find them.

Thanks for the tip!

Oooh, oooh, oooh! I've got one!!! Grows in full shade and has some height!
Solomon's Seal grows 4-6 ft. tall and spreads very slowly, so pretty low maintenance. Not sure about any kind of invasiveness or noxious weediness for FA. Check it out :) Great foliage.... even has a variegated version, although that's shorter. Just thought I'd mention it...

Hugs :)

edited to add link:
PF lists this as partial shade, but a shade gardening book I have here at home had it listed as full shade/partial shade.
http://davesgarden.com/pf/go/393/index.html

This message was edited Apr 8, 2005 12:46 AM

Evidently, though, they like moist shade if you want them to spread.....hmmmm......
http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/61161/

I finally took a picture of this very fine shrub that grows in really dark shade. The leaves are incredibly shiny - It kind of has the shape of a Camellia although much more dense, and it has ---Drum Roll Please--- No flowers! This one is about four feet tall but it would get a lot bigger if I let it. It's not too wide. Now if I can just get it identified. Someone's looking into it for me, but this one is just really highly recommended.

hugahosta: Those even look a little tropical. My concern with them is all the people who have said it grows in their area live several hundred miles north of me. I wonder if it can take the heat of a Florida summer. (Moisture is not a problem. LOL)

And no offense meant, doss, but that must be the ugliest plant you've suggested yet! ;>)

Dogz,

Did you stop at that nursery down the road from the Florala swap, where the guy was dissing garden clubs?

He had 2 Japanese Maples, one looked like a cut leaf and the other had fuzzy/furry type leaves. Either the price was too high, or he wasn't selling. Anyway, I am interested in getting one of these maples since they are growing here south of the border. I figure I can get one to grow down here if I'm really nice.

Do you have any info on that?

Would you like me to send you some root beer plants? I have plenty to share.

Molly
:^)))

P.S. I went out the other day and weeded my shade garden for the first time. Found Japanese Painted Fern, and Lemon fern still alive under all those weeds and shade. As well as several other items I'd forgotton about.

I did not stop at that nursery. I had no room left in my little red car for any more plants! ;>) I also wanted to get home and get the cuttings into water or dirt and take care of things that needed immediate attention. The drive took me just over 2 hours...

Anyway, I have a Japanese Maple in my front yard. You should have no trouble with them, although I wonder about So. FLA. (I used to live in Ft. Lauderdale, off Las Olas, near The Floridian diner.) The Jap. Maple needs a cold spell to drop its leaves and go dormant for a bit, then comes back as gorgeous as ever. I don't think it requires a freeze, so a drop to 40 or 45 might do it and I know you'll get temps like that in December. You could be one of the few places in Ft. Lauderdale where you actually get a "fall" for a month in the middle of winter! ;>) I'll e-mail a gardener friend who lives near you to see what he thinks.

And evidently, the root beer plants can take the heat, since you have them. Yes, I'd like them and if you wanted to give up the Japanese painted ferns, I could take those off your hands as well. Anything you'd like in trade? I've got lots of flutterby/hummingbird attractors.

I'm not taking offense. It's not really ugly in person. Plain certainly, but when you've got a dark corner where nothing else will grow......It sure works in the place I have it.

How about Skimmia Japonica? At the risk of insult (LOL) http://davesgarden.com/pf/go/2202/index.html

If you want tropical, some of the Elephant Ears like the shade - not all but some.

All right, you want something pretty that grows in the dark. Well, here it is.

http://davesgarden.com/pf/adv_search.php?search_type%5Bcommon%5D=contains&searcher%5Bcommon%5D=flowering+maple&search_type%5Bfamily%5D=contains&searcher%5Bfamily%5D=&search_type%5Bgenus%5D=contains&searcher%5Bgenus%5D=&search_type%5Bspecies%5D=contains&searcher%5Bspecies%5D=&search_type%5Bcultivar%5D=contains&searcher%5Bcultivar%5D=&search_type%5Bhybridizer%5D=contains&searcher%5Bhybridizer%5D=&Search=Search

That skimmia looks like something that might poison my dog if he eats the berries (the camellia eater)... But I bet the birds would like it.

I think the abutilon will need a little sun. I had some in hanging baskets last year and I killed them from not watering enough, but the did okay in partial sun/shade. I don't think they'd do well in the Dark Corner o' Death.

My Abutilons do fine in the dark. It might be worth a try.

Uh Oh, I just bought one of those flowering maples last weekend and it's in a pot in the sun, 1/2 to 3/4 day. This one the man called "Drunken Eyeball" It hasn't been officially named yet. I got a bloom today and just took a picture. See.................6 pictures and this is the best I could do. Darned wind kept blowing is my excuse today.

DogZ, I would be happy to share some rootbeer with you. Not sure about those Jap Painted Ferns tho. Let me take a little inventory to see how many more I have. It rained all day today, when I got home I saw bergundy lace and Ursula Red were all perked up. Anyways, let me take a look at your list over the weekend. I'll also try to think up something else you might like it that dark spot.

Molly

Thanks Molly!

Don't worry about your abutilon -- I think it'll be fine.

--Diane

Diane,

Thanks, I just went back out and found I have an extra Jap Fern. Are you sure you don't want some Lemon Fern to go in that shade? I just noticed this one has been multiplying under a larger fern. It was hiding there.

When I was looking for the Japanese fern, I realized I cannot tell the difference between that, Bergundy Lace and Ursula's Red. Can you? Here's 2 of the three. Maybe Ursula's has a little bit bigger of a leaf. They all seem to have a reddish spine.

Molly
:^)))

No, those ferns look exactly alike to me.

I'm totally openminded about the ferns. You've seen the dark corner o' death (above)... This weekend, I composted a big ole' pile of stuff there, and even moved some earthworms from another part of the yard. It ought to be ready in what, 6-8 months. ;>)