I don't know what they are unless it is something left from the fertilizer or something like that. Since I just dug up all my brugs and washed the roots t I can say for sure none of my other brugs had it. Also look at how puny the root system looks. It was not mixed in through the soil only in the roots.
This message was edited Nov 14, 2004 6:49 PM
I don't think it is vermiculite. It is metallic, shiny very tissue paper thin flakes. Looked almost like gold.
I can hardly wait until tomorrow to take one of my brugs out of the soil to see what is there, this is fascinating and I surely hope we are able to find out what it is!! I wish I had my lists to see if the four brugs with the problem were from the same place, which would, of course, help solve the mystery. I hate the puckered leaves too Shirley and I don't want to start up with the problem next spring, if there is any way to solve it. I was told that if I'd keep looking, if it was broad mites that i might be able to see one. I've had other bug problems, snail, slugs, cats, and some other stuff you can see, but this pucker job remains a mystery to me, whew!!! Shirley, are your plants young/old, ones you grew from seed, etc??? None of my home grown seedlings have it, so I plan to concentrate on growing seeds for a while, to see if that helps...it has just made me sick about the four brugs that pucker, they are some of my favorites!
Mine were a couple of versicolors that I have had for several years, a multihybrid, and one candida. No, three versicolors. EP, VO, and VP. The candida was a seedling, but none of the others had it that I know of. I was told at first that it could be a boron deficiency so I sprayed with borax, but that didn't do anything for them. I had just sprayed Messenger, so of course, I thought it might have had something to do with it, but I'm sure it didn't since none of the others were bothered. It's a puzzle to me, but I'm treating for broadmites just to be safe. Broadmites do appear in cool weather, I believe.
Mine was Rosabelle. It came to me with puckered leaves. None of my others had them.
Shirley, I treated for broadmites nine times with three different products and it was holy hell doing it, of course it was that hot too, and many of my brugs are huge and all of that would have been fine if any of it worked. I also used other assorted stuff, nothing has made any difference. I'm going to try Bayer and see if it does anything. If it's a cool weather thing, it could be that it was just this summer, since this has been a very cool one for us, wet too. What are you using on yours??? I don't remember the name but i started with a fungus, insect and mite spray, then Siven spray and dust, and Safer with insecticide soap and seaweed. Used all three, three times. I also used Messengers, Avid, and a couple of others. What are you using and do you think it's doing any good??? I have not seen one hint that anything I used helped worth a flip!!
I used Avid and I saw a big change. New leaves and they weren't cupped. However, I didn't follow up and within a month I had cupped leaves again. That was my mistake. I did use Floramite after the Avid, on some, but found out, too late, that it doesn't work on broadmites. At that time, I said the heck with it because I was going to be taking cuttings for next year and would treat them. Some were treated and some weren't so I'm going to spray everything two or three times with Avid and see if that will get it, if it is still there. If not, I'll worry about it next spring.
I forgot that my Isabella has it too and she arrived small, grew beautifully in a pot and was perfect until I moved her very near to the area where 3 of those that puckered were in the ground, which of course makes me think it's mites or other bug. And, in the very same area, stood V Peach, with perfect leaves then and now, along with Pink Favorite, Pink Beauty, Rosemond, EP, CDW, SP, all my seedlings and unknowns, none of whom have leaf problems that weren't caused by cats or wind, or hail and high wind or falling sticks or other bugs I could see and none of them have puckered leaves. I'm checking the root balls tomorrow and I cannot wait to see what's in there!!!
Shirley, is this the first year you have had this problem??? Are there others of you out there that have had the problem??? TIA!!!
If you treated nine times and it has'nt helped either it's not insects or those are the toughest mites that ever existed.
If it is mites then you should contact your extension agent because if those babies get loose it would be a disaster for
the agriculture industry.LOL
I know lots of people do but I won't use all those toxic chemicals on my plants, on my property, or even handle it. If washing the roots and repotting does not fix the problem I will just throw the plant away.
.
To answer your question about mites overwintering in soil:
Cyclamen mites often exist wherever old cyclamen corms are preserved in the greenhouse. If a suitable host is not present year-round, female mites may semi-hibernate in the soil until a host becomes available. Females are usually more abundant than males in the winter months, and they live longer than males.
I don't know why in my case they would semi-hybernate in the soil. There were 6 brugs and all kinds of other plants in the immediate area they could have infested.
Infested plants become unthrifty. Leaves curl downward and turn coppery or purplish. Internodes shorten and lateral buds break more than normal. This new growth may also be stunted or killed, which forces out additional shoots. Flowers are distorted and fail to open normally. Unless controlled, broad mites usually destroy the commercial value of infested ornamental corps. Broad mites damage flowers and foliage of begonia and cyclamen, and bronze the lower leaf surfaces.
Hope ya'll get whatever you got under control.
Yes Sherry, this is the first year for this.
Sherry, If you have lots of plants with it and they were nice and healthy once you might well have mites or something.
I cannot say because I never even seen a mite much les an infestation. lol So this is really out of my experience.
I only had this one plant, it arrived here with the problem, and even though it was around lots of other brugs and plants nothing else was affected
I have heard people say they had to treat 4-5 times with the real stong miticide to get rid of them. I might be tempted to take it to my extension agent to get the definitive answer. Especially if you are planning on blasting them with something strong.
I'm not criticizing people who choose to use Avid or other miticides. I am just not comfortable using them. And they cost so much.
That is interesting Loretta, especially the part about the begonias!! I have giant begonias sitting right next door to the puckered brugs, that are still blooming their hearts out, and I just went out to check and they don't have a single bug bite on them. Interesting because my begonias were not fertilized all season, except for the time release in their pots. Hmmmm???? I wonder if it could be all the 'wonderful' care my brugs receive. Oh, yes, my unknown brugs I just stuck in the ground (limbs from storm damage) and basically ignored, don't have bugs either. And, I'm gonna tell you, I gave my brugs with the pucker problem, extra stuff. Shoot, do you think they are suffering from too much attention???? Oh, oh, I have one unknown in a pot, and it was the one I took the broken limbs from, and the one in the pot is puckered but the broken ones stuck in the ground have no puckered leaves. I just talked with my county farm extension service and the director is going to make a house call tomorrow, wow, was i impressed, but he was coming to my town anyway. I'm going to have a tough time waiting, I so hope I find out something positive...
Cool, we should utilize the extension services more often. After all we are paying for it. I'm interested what he/she has to say. Let us know.
Sherry, What did you find out from the extension person? Hope it was good news.
Loretta
Thanks, Loretta!! In a nut shell, she said there were no signs of broad mites or any mites but I have a bumper crop of cats and more than my share of slugs!! I knew about the cats and I had slugs last spring, but i had not noticed the slugs recently but they are here!! She suspects that Species, Butterfly, Whiskers, and my unknown brug in a pot, were in a bad, low spot and were stressed by standing water, mold or mildew on the soil, and that when they did get sun, it was too hot, too long, and it appears they may have been steamed cooked, followed by drying out too much, then going through that cycle over and over but she thinks they are on the way to recovery. She suggested building up/conditioning the soil or relocation in a better spot. This growing season, she reminded me, has been wetter/cooler, which is likely a factor. She thought my other brugs look great, my sweet pink, unknown and the yellows and orange/apricots, are blooming their hearts out and she was impressed, , she had never seen that many blooming at one time, I was flattered...
Interesting, I am glad you had her come by before you invested in expensive miticides. That makes sense, it was very wet this year. I could smell mildew outside and kept telling DH we should make sure it was not coming from the crawl space. Getting extra oxygen to the roots would be beneficial to these brugs. It is nice that she liked your brugs, makes it all worthwhile.
Loretta
Gosh, in a way this is good news and maybe not. You have more work to do now. I know you have had tons of rain this year. Glad you found out what it is that is causing the problem for you.
I'm taking her findings with a grain of salt, she knows zero about brugs and had never seen one, except white, and I don't have a single white in the yard. We will see, I plan to do LOTS of stuff different next growing season!!!
Slugs have been my biggest pest here, and I drown them (reluctantly) every month or so in a Corona - no lime.
Do you have a compost pile?
I work on/with mine all year, and now is the time we drag out the chipper/shredder to make the pile for spring. All my Brugs in pots are in compost, and my soil is amended heavily with compost for those I put in the ground. That will certainly improve your drainage.
Polly, what is Corona, and where is it sold?? I cannot remember the name of the slug repellant I used but it was safe for dogs/animals and worked - but it left this sticky white residue on the soil around the brugs and I did NOT like that.
Corona beer! lol Dishes of beer attract the slugs, they fall in and drown. It does'nt matter what kind of beer, I buy Budwieser, drink that, and put out Old Milwaukee for the slugs. lol It works very well and my dogs never bother it. Or I remember somebody posting a thread once about a device they called the Sluggomatic. Very easy to make using a 2 liter soft drink bottle. I am wondering if yeast dissolved in water is just as good. However I only have problems with slugs in the spring.
Sherry, do you mean taking it with grain of salt you suspect it might be insects or you are changing some cultuivation practices? The brug I cleaned the roots on is already putting out new healthy looking leaves.
This message was edited Nov 18, 2004 6:02 PM
The slugomatic works good. I made one this last year. You cut off the top of the 2 liter plastic bottle (about 3 inches down) and then re-insert it, upside down so the tip of the bottle is now inside the bottle. Then tape it well (something fairly waterproof) and pour beer or whatever concoction you are using into it, set it on it's side where you want to catch the slugs. It's not the "prettiest" device, but it does work.
You can also staple the top with a regular desk stapler.
I guess as long as it is water tight (so that the beer or whatever you put in there doesn't leak out) it would be fine!
Beautiful pics Loretta
Oooops, the secret is out. I guess you know by now that I don't drink beer, whew! However, I seldom turn down a good V&T...
Here is a photo of the slug trap that Karrie is talking about....I liked the idea so copied and saved it when I saw it. I have never used it though....
don't get up ladies, just a new brug-vert lurking through. Reading through the thread produced two thoughts I'd like to throw out
1- Based on hydroponics I'm sure it's possible but isn't it funny that a plant vulnerable to overwatering can be grown in water? The first reason that came to mind is that overwatering in ground suffocates it but in a tub with bubbler, the oxygen content may be high enough.
2 - The leaf pucker mentioned is probably systemic and soil borne like verticillum wilt. If it's in the pot, I'd recommend dumping, washing off all soil, sanitizing via one of the solutions mentioned above and repotting.
OK - back to the watch and learn posture as I anxiously await the arrival of plants and cuttings shipped today from valleygrow.com.
thanks for all of the wonderful input here. I need to find out how to print this entire thread.
blaine
This message was edited Nov 20, 2004 6:50 PM
You should just be able to save the page as a text file then print it.
Welcome to the obsession. I predict you ain't seen nothing yet. lol
Loretta
I wanted to update everyone on my experiment of overwintering my brugs in water. I dug them all up, washed the roots, and they have been in a tub in the spare bathroom for a month and a half. There is a window with good light and a bubbler in the water for extra oxygen. I change the water every three days. Twelve brugs at least one year old are being overwintered in a space aprox. 28" x 60". All are thriving, putting out new growth, pods are continuing to ripen, and the ones that had buds went on to bloom. When I close the shower curtain you can't even tell they are there. The larger ones (5' plus) look the most healthy. The tips where I cut back have calloused a bit but no more than a half inch if that.
so pretty! know how ya feel
Loved reading about everyone's brugs. I think this is the plant I'm seeing blooming around here (NW Florida). They are in the ground, outdoors, all year long. Does that sound right? I'd love to try some, but don't want to have to bring them in during the winter.
Martha
Martha-In z9 I believe they need winter protection but if you had a micro-climate in your yard you might be able to leave them in the ground. When I lived in Memphis it is z7a but due to an urban heat sink effect my yard was at least z8 and up against the foundation of the house maybe warmer. They are not so hard to overwinter but it does take some planning.
Karrie, Thanks! At least I did not have to worry about them last night . It got down to 9F. I kept running to the greenhouse checking the heater. Looks like everything came through OK.
Sounds like it is working very well. Do you think you could get by longer without changing the water since you have the bubbler in it? I know it can't be a big problem since they are right in the tub area, but just wondered.
Yes, I dug up an unnamed pink and stuck it in the greenhouse in a bucket of water about a month ago. Have'nt changed the water at all and it has no bubbler. It had about 8 buds on it that bloomed but the pods are looking a little soft and I know they are not ripe. The greenhouse is solely to keep the tropicals in it from freezing so the temps get down in the high 30's to low 40's on cold nights.
The tub inside works real good. I blocked the heating vent in that room and keep the door closed. They seem to do better in cooler temps.
Shadowgirl, I just got it. They are in the BATH tub. When you said you put them in a tub of water, I didn't get the picture. Sometimes I just scan when I should be reading. What a great idea, so easy to change the water and you can just turn the shower on to give them a good bath. How do you keep them standing up?
lol, there are enough of them to lean against the other for support. When the curtain is closed people can still use the lavatory and toilet and not even know the brugs are there.
Love it, I'm going to remember that next year. This year, I have the bubbler buckets in the gh and that seems to be working well so far. Temp last night was 19 and gh held at 38 (I haven't been out there this morning to check on things).
Loretta, sounds like the tub and bubbler is working great for you. I keep meaning to pick up a bubler at Wally World but keep forgetting. Too much on my mind, what little mind i have. LOL
Me too! I am easily confused. lol I usually order garden supplies online. It is much easier to do it when I am thinking about it.
hughes-I was almost afraid to check out the greenhouse this morning. But everything was fine. It stays pretty cold in there so I have been very sparing with the water. Don't want anything rotting.
