Do y'all plan ranunculus in the fall or the spring? Seems like you could almost go either way with that one.
What bulbs (if any) don't have to be lifted to rebloom
In my experience, the problem, at least in northern TX, is NOT the temperatures, with the exception of maybe tulips. I also plant bulbs on a large scale, and hyacinths, narcissi, Dutch iris, lilies, and even many types of crocus come back just fine. We get sufficient winter chill for these to reset bud for the following year. Tulips generally have a longer cold requirement, though I have had some varieties return successfully, though some were shorter than the first year. I have found that the biggest problem with TX is the soil. In my area, it is very heavy clay and does not drain well at all. Soggy and compacted clay soil means certain death to most bulbs. If they don't even produce leaves the second year, the problem is NOT the cold, but usually means the bulb has rotted. Bulbs that do not get sufficient cold will still generally produce leaves, but will either not flower, or the flowers will be small or on very short stems. The solution is to build a deep raised bed, and fill it will loamy soil or sandy loam for good drainage. Also, hyacinths and tulips seem to perform better if the soil is kept somewhat dry during the summer. Hyacinths seem to bloom with fewer florets as the years progress, but this is true everywhere, not just in TX. One way to keep bulbs blooming well from year to year is to deadhead them after they flower to keep the bulb from expending energy by producing seed pods. You may want to experiment with raised beds, and see how much improvement you get. On the bearded iris, they will not bloom if the rhizome is planted too deep. I leave the tops of mine exposed to the air, even with the surface, and they bloomed beautifully last spring.
This message was edited Nov 5, 2004 11:03 PM
Mine do produce leaves. They just don't bloom. A few of the very early jonquils still bloom, but as you said, the blooms are weaker and shorter each year. They are all planted in raised beds, always have been. I have uncovered quite a few of them (hyacinths, jonquils,crocus, glads, etc.) when planting other stuff. The bulbs look fine and not at all rotted, but I have generally been pitching them as I run across them since they are serving no function other than taking up space and producing unattractive leaves. I did experiment with a few of them a couple years back. Those that I happened to dig up I put in the fridge for about 2 months and then replanted them just before Christmas. The bloomed the folllowing spring when they had not bloomed at all for at least the previous 2 seasons. The year after however, after staying in ground, they did not bloom and have not bloomed since. I enjoy the traditional spring blooming bulbs but I just can't give up my fridge for a couple of months a year to chill them.
HMM, Pfluger...interesting. I know you're a couple hundred miles south of me....but I have a friend in the Nacogdoches area who tells me his hyacinths return every year, and I have had the same experience in my back yard where the bed is 10" raised. I usually have to replace the ones in front each year, since the drainage is not as good and they're not planted as deep. Muscari and daffodils seem to return undiminished for me, and I have had good luck with hyacinths and all types of lilies as well. The only bulbs I seem to have problems with are tulips, and even about 20% of those have returned. Most of them, however, split into smaller bulbs and don't flower again. When I first moved to TX from IL a few years back, a guy at Home Depot where I bought my first bulbs told me I had to refrigerate them or they wouldn't bloom. I started ordering bulbs off of the internet after that since they were bigger and of better quality. In my second year, deciding that lifting them every year would be a serious pain, I planted a patch of hyacinths and tulips that I did not refrigerate, and I refrigerated the rest. The non-refrigerated tulips bloomed but were very short. the non-refrigerated hyacinths were identical to the ones I did refrigerate - I could see no difference. In the third year, the hyacinths returned and were of normal height....just not as densely flowering.
Well just when ya think ya got it figured huh? If it isn't the chilling requirement I'm not sure what else it would be. I moved here from Virginia and had all kinds of dutch bulbs there in non raised beds and if anything the soil was even more clay than here and they bloomed year after year. Other than the chilling, I don't know what else to try with them. For now I'm going to experiment on a very small scale with more tropical bulbs.
Bone meal?
I would be surprised if they needed refrigerating myself, but are they dividing into lots of small bulbs? If they are they are probably also crowding themselves. Bulbs that split often go blind until the small ones reach flowering size, and if they are overcrowded they also go blind.
nope...from the ones I dug up they don't look like they multiplying at all. I divided one small clump of bearded iris and moved them...but they haven't bloomed the last couple of seasons. And the only difference I can think of is that the last couple of winters were especially mild. Other than that, nothing else I can think of that would be keeping them from blooming. Same with the glads.
Pville,
What kind of glads? Glads should do very well in your area. Mine come back every year. I don't believe they have any cold requirement, since they're not hardy bulbs, except the byzantine glads. Standard glads are hardy in zones 7 and higher.
they were standard glads, mixed colors. They had been blooming, not prolifically, but some, up until 2 years ago. Since then they put up shoots and look like they are going to bloom...but never get past the foliage stage. The folliage stays green all summer but it just doesn't bloom any more.
edited to add....
btw.....I don't see these kinds of bulbs blooming anywhere else in my area either.
This message was edited Nov 6, 2004 12:41 AM
Bone Meal.
Bearded Iris are not bulbs, they are rhizomes (thickened roots) and don't behave like bulbs at all.
Gladioli aren't bulbs either, they are corms as are crocus and montbretia and also behave slightly differently.
I have always had trouble getting glads to rebloom satisfactorily, I suspect it is they way they are prepared before you buy them. Montbretia should be happy, they hate being frozen but grow like a weed when in warmer soil. Couldn't get them out of the veg. patch in Cornwall (SW UK) they multiply by growing a new corm below the old one, and the old one rots off eventually. Then the new one flowers, so this may be the problem with glads too, if they don't grow the new corm then they stop flowering?
They are different but in my yard, most bulbs, corms, and rhizomes (except for the dang cannas) have behaved the same way. Years one doesn't bloom the others don't either. Not familiar with Montbretia. What is that?
Also called crocosmia I think. I bought a packet here in the spring and they are smaller than my Cornish blooms. They look like minature orange gladioli if that helps.
ah ok....crocosmia I know. In fact I got some at a swap recently so won't know how they will do in my yard for a while.
Interesting, okus....I bought some glads the first year I bought my house, and they have bloomed for three years running. I planted more the next year, and virtually all returned. I bought a few dozen more last pring, but I think I'll stop since they seem to come back. I love the way they look, but they get so top heavy they fall over easily, and I had some get nearly 6 ft. tall. The bloom time also seems kind of short. I live in N. Ft Worth very close to you. I dug some of them up, and most had a new corm replacing the old as you said, but I had one in which five new corms were glued together on top of what used to be the old one. The first site I bought them from, Tulip World (a Dutch online retailer), indicated that they did not naturalize or perennialize, but I have found that this was totally not the case for me in this area. Below is a picture of some in my back yard.
This amaryllis bulb I got is blowing me away. I planted the bare bulb 2 weeks ago and it is already blooming. Doesn't quite look like the ones I've gotten before that were already in full bloom though so don't know if this is the initial bloom stage or mine is just weird.
The flowers haven't opened yet, thats why it looks different. It looks as though you are going to need to stake it when the do, its a wee bit leggy and the stalks are not that strong. A kniiting needle, blunt side up works well. Mine is well behind yours, but the paperwhites are nearly out.
ok...I think I actually have some plastic tubular type thingies that are for staking houseplants. I have a second stalk that I think is a second bloom stalk and the third one that is actually the foliage is the shortest. DH paperwhites planted at the same time have just barely broken out. Longest stalk is still only about 3-4".
Yes the second stalk in your pic is also a flower spike, the leaves folow after the flowers are finished usually. They just poke up a tiny bit but grow much more slowly than the flowers
ah...gotcha.....cool...having fun watching this thing develop :-)
One thing to remember is that glads and cannas both prefer warmer soil during growth to do well, which you don't have in the UK (I lived in the Netherlands for a couple of years and the climate there was just about identical to that of the UK, being just across the North Sea). I was reading through this thread and surprised at the difficulty people seem to have to get any plants to return. While glads are not technically "bulbs" (neither are crocus, which are corms and members of the Iris family just like glads), they are very similar in most functional respects. Glads are native to South Africa which doesn't have cold winters. Bearded Iris here love hot weather and do well here, but if they're planted to deeply they will not flower, and if they get soggy they'll rot. Just haven't had the problem here except for tulips. Our average low temps in Ft Worth are in the mid to low 30's for three months running in winter...enough for the majority of bulbs to reset for flowering. Things like tulips, lilac, and peonies have longer and lower cold requirements than other plants, and I'm experimenting with early blooming peonies to see how they do. I gave my neighbor several types of daffodils, some lilies, and muscari three years ago, and they do virtually NO maintenance to their yard, and they all returned last year. Flowers that bloom late sometimes struggle with our heat, like late peonies and many types of Oriental lilies. The solution is to look for early-blooming Orientals or those with known heat tolerance, or look to the "Orienpets" out there that are a cross between Trumpet lilies (which have high heat tolerance) and Orientals. Asiatic lilies perform great here and mine return every year. I'm tellin' ya, plant bulbs and corms deeply in a raised, well drained bed. You'll be surprised at the results:-) Maybe southern TX is much more difficult, since the average low temp in Nov through Feb in Houston is 13-14 F warmer than in DFW. Below is picture of white Carnegie hyacinths returning 2nd year along side of house (3-7-04). Stalks are not quite as full as first year but otherwise great.
Quail narcissus in 2nd year (tulips in front of them were in 1st year of course:-)). 3-20-04
Two lone "Kingsblood" tulips, returning 2nd year...most of that clump did not. Single Lates are best choice for southern conditions. 3-29-04
Asiatic Chianti lilies in 2nd year, 5-29-04. Bigger and better than in first year.
Another clump, pic taken same day, also 2nd year
Orienpet lilium Futura, 6-12-04. This was 2nd year, and plant grew to over 4 ft. Was a little under 3 ft. first year. See Canna in background...I buried it under 10" of soil when I built raised bed, and it popped right back by 2nd year. You're right..they are like weeds here.
One more. Ice Follies daffodils, 3-4-04, 2nd year. And I tried a whole bunch of new items last year that I can report on next spring. Don't be discouraged....you can garden with bulbs successfully in Texas.
Nice pics and good info. Will look forward to hearing about them in the spring. You experience thus far was similar to mine. Many of my bulbs also bloomed the second year, although most were more spindly the second year, like you said your hyacinths were. Some of the early narcissus, bearded iris, and glads even bloomed the third year, albeit pretty weakly. Then the next 2 winters were exceptionally mild. The only thing that even broke the ground the following year were the iris and the glads but that year and ever since have been foliage only.
Glads certainly don't require cold, they don't like it much! I grew them with success in the UK, but they didn't flowwer till late August/September, because as Steve said they like warm soil before they will start growing. They did return successfully too.
The most success I had was when we lived in Cornwall, which has a much warmer winter and longer summer than most of the rest of the country. Montbretia, closely related to Glads, were endemic weeds.
I'm wondering if peoples problems are due to depth of planting being wrong? How deep are you planting them? Tulips need to be quite a way underground. Lillies are also something that likes to be deep, and interestingly they do best in more acid soil. I discovered this by accident when I planted out a potted lily forgetting that i had prepared the bed specially for my Rhododendron with acidic peat soil, They did better than any of the others the next year, so I experimented with more the year after, planting new bulbs in 2 places the only significant difference being the soil. The ones in the Rhododendron mix did best again. They also divided more readily so I had multiples for the following year.
They move themselves deeper in the ground too - I have found them up to 12" below ground. I was redoing an entire bed and lifting everything to start afresh, so followed the old flower stalk down till i got there!
Oh yes, thats another thing are you cutting the flower stalks after flowering? They need to remain on the bulb until they decay naturally, for several reasons, being too tidy a garden doesn't work!
There was a theory in England that Daffs etc needed to be lifted each year or they wouldn't come again. On closer examination this turned out to be false, if you left the foliage etc to die back naturally. If you can't bear to do that, then you must lift and allow them to dry out where they don't offend the eye! The dieback feeds next years bulb and seals the top stopping water and pests getting in.
Gosh I've written a book. Of the soapbox now, LOL
No, I never cut the folliage, even in years they don't bloom and they were all initially planted at the recommended depth for the particular bulbs/rhisomes.
BTW, don't remember if I mentioned this anywhere previously, but my issues with bulbs are not unique to me in my area. Every other gardener I've spoken with has had the same problem with spring Dutch type bulbs, and you see very few of them around here except for maybe a few early blooming narcissis.
This message was edited Nov 19, 2004 10:20 AM
Pville, what is the PH on the soil round you? That may be the cause of the problem. Also do the bulbs get shade in the summer?
This message was edited Nov 19, 2004 4:39 PM
Okus, you made a couple of good points. Leave the leaves intact no matter how bad they look, since they recharge the bulb for the following year. Stems should remain intact but flowers should be deadheaded, since letting them go to seed robs the bulb of much of its energy. Deep planting they say helps with longevity and reduces bulb splitting, especially with tulips. I have had excellent luck with lilies here, as well.
Well that depends okus. I have amended some of it to lower pH for hydrangeas and and such, However, that actually was after the bulbs had already stopped reblooming and the most significant drop is not where I ever had bulbs anyway. Most of the rest varies any where from 6.5 to 7.8. Generally the native soil around here is a tad on the alkaline side mostly in the 7.2 to 7.8 range. Not sure what you mean about the bulbs getting shade in the summer since they are underground. The only ones that bloomed into summer when they bloomed were the glads and by summer they were part shaded by trees above them and other plants in the yard (bougainvilla, roses, etc.).
That PH should be OK. The bulbs will get more benefit from their dying foliage if it dies relatively slowly. So if they are part shaded that should help, otherwise it might dry before the sap is reabsorbed. Also shaded soil is cooler than full sun soil- unless you go pretty deep that is - so it would suit them better. Another thought is drainage. The best daffs I ever grew were on a very slight slope which faced North east - it was slight enough to get lots of UK sun, but it was also a rockery and where the daffs clustered round the rocks, and could get their roots in the cool, they multiplied like rabbits and bloomed brilliantly. The flowers lasted longer too.
All of the beds that I had bulbs in are raised.
Pville, don't know what to tell you. My experience has been different from yours, and obviously the experience of other posters who are often transplants as well has been too. But, TX is a big state...and it would be wrong to assume because something is difficult in one area then that applies to the whole state - it doesn't. Re the hyaciths, I said the stalks were not as full as the previous year (which is true of them no matter where you grow them), I wouldn't quite call them "spindly". The lilies returned bigger and better than the previous year, and no change in daffs. I've read many of your postings on line, and while it doesn't seem you're having much luck with anything other than cannas, there's a lot of evidence that others do. What things have you had luck with? Have you tried calla lilies? Daylilies? I planted callas the first year, and thought they wouldn't come back since they're hardy to zones 8 and above (on the old map, I'm technically in 7b), and I was just tossing the calla "bulbs" (not true bulbs, but some sort of roundish fibrous root) out of the way, and then dug a quick hole and covered them up with dirt, just to get them out of the way. ALL of them returned, better and more floriferous than first year, and I didn't really expect them to come back. Have you put light colored much over your beds? This will help deflect heat on "hot" days and retain the cold, as well. There are books out there about bulbs well suited to southern conditions. If you like daffodils, "Jonquilla" division narcissus are well suited to the south, but bloom with small flowers in clusters rather than a single large flower. Tazetta narcissus are known to do well in the south (Paperwhites are in this division, but many are hardier than Paperwhites), as well as several types of species tulips such as "Lilac Wonder". Narcissus "Carlton" and Gigantic Star" (both available from Brent and Becky) are large-flowered narcissus that do well in the south, and I have had good luck with both. The B&B site sorts both tulips and daffodils by division, which is helpful. You may want to check those out.
Steve,
I never assumed it applied to the whole state. When I started this thread wanted to know was what bulbs rebloom well in 8b in Texas without having to lift and chill them every year. I don't care for lilies so I have not planted any of them. The cannas we inherited with the house and I have been trying to get rid of them ever since. The blulbs that have not done well are the ones that have a chilling requirement that I can't provide without lifting them. I appreciate the suggestions everyone has provided in this thread, but I'm not really looking to plant those bulbs again. Instead I am now trying some of the others that have been suggested that I have not tried before.
A few which have been successful fo me in Zone 8b:
(Anomatheca laxa) ( small plant):
http://davesgarden.com/pdb/showimage/37069/
Hill Country Rain Lily (Zephyranthes drummondii) and other rain lilies
http://davesgarden.com/pdb/go/65974/index.html
Peruvian Daffodil (Hymenocallis festalis) Zones 8a and above, very large plant
http://davesgarden.com/pdb/go/1234/index.html
False shamrock, Purple Shamrock Zones 8a and above (mine never have gone dormant and have bloomed almost all year)
http://davesgarden.com/pdb/go/1241/index.html
Prarie Iris (Iris hexagona)
http://davesgarden.com/pdb/go/57938/
http://images.google.com/images?q=Iris+hexagona&hl=en&btnG=Google+Search
Dutch Iris - 'Oriental Beauty'
http://davesgarden.com/forums/fp.php?pid=807089