On Sept. 23rd I posted a SASE with stipulations to the other Garden site. Which I will never do again!... I received a lot of request. Today when I got to the mailbox..it seemed like thousands of envelopes fell out. Some are just plain envelopes..no bubble wrap..etc yet requesting bumpy seeds.. Someone asked that I label the seeds and wrap with tissue. NO ONE put the $.49 postage in there for me to keep. I have decided to send all envelopes back empty! (ones that arrived like this) I do this to help people aquire seeds that have nothing to trade. All my seeds are hand picked, bagged, and labeled. It's a lot of work so I asked for $.49 postage (stamps) for me to keep. Nowwww my daughter says.. I did not make myself clear with my request. What does she know?? She's 15 years old...LOL But here are the details. Tell what you think? or do people see what they want to see?...
~Fustrated Kim
My Post:
Hi, I am offering the following seeds for SASE. All seeds have been picked this week. You can choose Any or ALL. Each pack will be labeled and have 25 plus seeds. I'm asking that you include 49 cents postage for me to keep for future usage. If your email is blocked..I won't be returning your email. I've had problems responding to some of the request when the email is block. Please make sure you state the seeds you want in your post. Thanks everyone who would like to participate in this offer. Happy Gardening!
Tinantia Erecta (Love this plant!)
Asclepias Incarnata (Pink)
Creamy Lemon Sunflower (very nice!)
Sunflower Prado (Burgundy)
Chelone (Hot Lips)
Love Lies Bleeding (Fuchsia)
Ratibida Columnifera (bronzey/red)
Celosia Argentea (burgundy leaves w/fuchsia tassels)
Emilia Javanica (Tassel Flower)
Marigold (Safari Bolero)
Touch Me Nots (spotted jewelweed)
Hibiscus (Simply Love Superior)
Malva Sylvestris (Mystic Merlin)
Lantana Camara (yellew/pink/orange tri-colored)
Balloon Flower (Dwarf Purple)
In order to get my address they receive this email:
Hi,
I am offering the these seeds for SASE. All seeds have been picked this week. Each pack will be labeled and have 25 plus seeds. I'm asking that you include an additional 49 cents postage for me to keep for future usage. Please add a note of which seeds you requested. If I don't get a note, I may have to send your envelope back with something you didn't request. Thanks again
Kim Gaither
216 Royersford Rd.
Royersford, PA 19468
Now..am I the crazy one?? If sooo please let me know therefore I won't try to share no more..LOL
Would I be wrong?? Help!
Looks like its plainly stated to me Kim. Their misunderstanding, not yours.
Your post sounds fine to me.
I give away seeds for SASE at DG and I've never had that problem. It sounds like the people over on that other web site aren't exactly rocket scientists. ;-)
I had that happen to me once. I never asked for postage to keep, but asked that they include postage for me to send them their seeds. Also asked for padded envelopes. 5 out of 10 had no postage and some of them, no padded envelope. I just emailed the people and told them I needed the postage in order to send them. All but one sent me the postage - I think the other person forgot.
I've also seen people post to "send SASBE" for self addressed stamped bubble envelope with a mailing label and .49 postage inside and they stated, like your post, that if the postage wasn't in there they weren't sending seeds.
i wouldnt send them anything back Kim. then you will be losing money yourself. its their lose for not following directions.
you made it clear and i understood it just fine.
I can understand why you're upset, but being a newbie before I can understand why they would make the mistake. Your instructions were very clear but we were all new once right? Being a rocket scientist has nothing to do with it. They may have thought "future usage" meant the return postage. Again, I understand that you go to a lot of trouble and this adds to it but maybe you could email those that didn't follow instructions and give them a chance to rectify the situation. It may make you feel better to know that it was a mistake on their part and they weren't out to scam you, especially if they are willing to make things right. I happen to love the "other site" as I do this one. I'm sure that in the beginning we all made mistakes, someone wasn't satisfied with the amount of seeds sent, crushed seeds (even small ones can get smashed if they're in a regular envelope, tissue or not). I guess what I'm trying to say is don't get too upset about it if they were honest mistakes...it isn't worth it.
I'm not sure which other site you posted on or what the rules are on DG but asking for an additional .49 cents (even in stamps) in addition to the stamps it takes to return the seeds is tantamont to "selling" your seeds because you are seeking some type of renumeration in return.
This type of soliciting is usually not allowed on most "trade" lists. Offering a SASE is just that.
An envelope, return address and enough postage to return seeds.
I usually ask for SASE 49 cents postage, but I can see that a large list like that that you picked, packed, and asked for additional postage isn't wrong. I think perhaps email them, or just send them 1 item???? no idea, never had many not follow directions on here, but then I usually am only doing a SASE of one item at a time otherwise I get myself all lost!!!
All wrapped up here.........I think you offered and that was your stipulation, if they wanted them, they should have followed YOUR directions!
I can see where some would be confused. You're really not offering for SASE. You want a SASE, but you are really offering to trade seeds for stamps. I'm not sure if that message is really clear.
I'd like to toss in support for Zanna1's comments..... I'd love to do more seed trading but being a newbie I'm not always sure of seed trading etiquette. I try to follow instructions and have had a couple of trades with success. I would be do whatever I could to rectify a situation if contacted and informed that I mis-understood what was required, plus I learn to be a better trader.
Don't give up on everyone Kim....... keep in mind that just as every garden has a few weeds -- the blooms make up for them..... you're bound to encounter a few weeds in the garden of life............ is that deep or just well fertilized..... hee hee
I have to agree with Zanna1. People are human, and we were ALL new at this once! I've posted several SASEs on the other site, and have always gotten a good response overall. Granted, I've never asked for extra postage. To me, it defeats the spirit of sharing. This is supposed to be fun, but it's obviously making you too aggravated. It sounds like you made a good decision to quit offering SASEs. For you, it just doesn't seem worth it.
I do SASEs for postage to cover the seed packet only. The sites I belong to do not allow you to charge additional monies for profit to my understanding. My recent SASE listing I had one person send me $1.00 extra and extra postage from another. I thought it was very nice of them, but I sent it back to the persons. I do it to share with others. I enjoy stuffing them full when they are new gardeners to help them out. We were all new gardeners at one time. A few people helped me out the same. Happy gardening all.
This message was edited Sep 28, 2004 3:27 PM
Yes, I personally would not ask for additional postage, past the amount it takes to send the seeds as I think it is the same thing as asking for extra money.
Ok I wasnt going to say anything , BUT KIM is my friend ! I have known Kim for awhile have traded with her both here and at the other website. She has also send me some wonderful plants for postage.
In talking to her about this I found out that she had gotten a very nasty email from a member beacause she had wasted 2 stamps and gotten no seeds ETC ETC !
Kim is a very giving and loving person she does tons of sase's for seeds and
also has send lots of people plants for postage.
So what is an extra 49 cents she was asking for .How much do we spend on packs of seeds at a store , I know I have paid even 7.00 for 5 seeds and here is this kind lady offering 15 different kinds of seeds for an sase and and extra 49 cent stamp ..wow that is a bargin when u get 15 packs of seeds for under 2.00 bucks !
Elva
Elva, this is true but still against the rules on GardenWeb. I haven't traded with Kim and am not implying that she's a bad person or anything like that. What she's offering for an extra .49 cent stamp is a great deal! I thought the reason she posted this was to find out if the offer was clear or not. I didn't want to bring up the fact that it was against the rules, but it's out there now.
Kim, if the people responding to the SASE thought that it wasn't allowed to ask for "extra" stamps they may have assumed the 49 cents was for return postage. From what I remember, after signing up that was a stipulation in the the welcome email. Again, not trying to bash anyone but the fact that NOBODY put in the extra postage combined with the way the rules are set up says that the post wasn't all that clear.
Here's my 2 cents worth, since I am one of the people who responded to Kim's kind offer. I understood the extra stamp, and know I sent one. I would gladly have sent more for such a grand offer. Now I do not remember if I sent a bubble envelope. (Boy I hope so). She said sase insteadof sabe, so I don;t remember what I sent...hope Kim will tell me. I don't think she has received mine yet. In fact I responded to a sase today for 5 pkg of seeds and just to be sure, I emailed back to see if this generous person wanted a bubble envelope...she emailed back that she had the bubble ones and to just to send an ordinary one. I don't know what point I'm trying to make except...Boy Kim, thank you and this will teach ME to be a better trader and get the directions right, afterall, I am the one gaining the wonderful seeds. Janetlee
Hi All I just spoke to Kim ,she said she did get Janets bubble today and was very happy because She(Janet) followed the rules. She also got 10 other envelopes today and they ALL had the extra stamp! Kim is laying low for a few days (while she is thinking and reading..) But now that 10 more fell out her mailbox today. She see's her offer was very clear.
Elva
I have" traded " with Kim so many times i cant even count . She not only is a great trader , but a super friend. I can only verify her absolute honesty and her incredible generosity . Not only has she offered 100s of SASE for seeds and plants on this site and one other , she goes way further then that , she even grows some of my seeds that i can not get to germinate and then sends them back to me . I think her post was very clear and a lot of people must have thought so as well , or they wouldnt have send the extra stamp. But in all reality , lets get real here , people offering SASE dont just have to grow the seed or plant , collect , clean and package them , but also drive to the Postoffice to mail them . So, if she had not asked for the extra stamp , she would have been actually loosing money , getting everybodys seeds mailed out . Its not like everybody sends them at one time ! The whole point being i read the copy of the persons email and she was extremly rude and even thought she could dictate how her seeds where to be mailed . But its her loss , as Kim always sends out extras , more importantly she now wont have the opportunity to delight in Kims emails as Elva and i do .
My 5 cents , oops no this is for free Kim lol
Anette
You were completely up front with your expectations. They are your seeds & you wanted $.49 in postage for them. If it is going to be an issue for people that feel you are making a profit, then in the future just re-word your posts. Say that you will trade seeds for postage & leave off SASE.
I seldom buy seeds at the store because they are at or over $2 a pack, and you are offering multiple packs for $.49 to get there, $.49 to get back & $.49 for yourself. $1.47 is a steal as far as I am concerned! And you DID make it clear in your post, so anyone that felt you did anything wrong had the choice to not participate.
I read the email and I have to be honest, I did NOT catch the fact that she wanted an ADDITIONAL .49, which would have made it a total of .98. I didn't realize it until Zanny made it clear exactly what Kim meant. While I was reading it, all I was seeing was .49 which is the most common amount to put in a sase. I can most definately see why they missed it. I personally don't have a problem with someone asking for extra to help with bubble envelopes and drive time to the post office. Maybe it would have been easier to ask for $1.00 and be done with it.
On my first trade, the lady asked for $1.00, no envelope or anything. Good thing she did, I was so new, I didn't even know to send a bubble envelope. I even sent her $2.00 since she was sending out 10 or 12 different packets of seeds. I felt like $1.00 wasn't enough for all the time and effort she put into it, not to mention the amount of seeds.
I now have a small supply of bubble envelopes that I got off of ebay for very little, just waiting to be used for seeds. I think at one time I calculated that they each cost me about .11. And in those envelopes, postage can quickly go well above .49. So if someone offers 15 different kinds of seeds for postage, I would gladly pay $1.50 or $2.00 and not think another thing about it.
In my opinion, the forums are called seed trading. I interpret this as you can TRADE seeds for seeds, OR you can TRADE seeds for postage or anything else as long as it's not money. Some of us newbies don't have seeds to TRADE. If it were not for people like KIM then how would any newbies get seeds to trade in the future without having to purchase retail? I have disagreed with this rule on ALL the forums. Even recvd a nasty gram from another forum master because I requested something for postage. I think that the rules ought to be changed so everyone can play!
As far as your post Kim, if they had read it, they should be able to understand it, whether it was "breaking the rules" or not. If they felt so strongly about breaking the rules, they should not have replied!
Kim, I have to agree with the people that read your message and did not understand that you were asking for an additional $0.49 in stamps. I did not realize that is what you were asking for until a couple people replied above. I know the rules of both websites, and would never have thought you were asking for extra stamps to keep. I thought you were asking for the stamps to not be attached to the envelope because you had prepared envelopes already or something. Reading the testimonials about how you go above & beyond, I understand why, but I also would assume that someone would not blatantly break the rules in a post.
Yes, I am remembering a trade where someone wanted money and I backed out.. I will trade seeds for seeds, seeds for any postage,, but dont do the cash thing. I have also just sent seeds as a courtesy and also recieved some as the same courtesy in return for free..
but trading can be costly.....
Well... As I'm sitting here reading everyones responses. I'm cleaning and bagging seeds.... Which some have requested all 15 types..hmmmm go figure! I don't like chaff. So I don't send anyone chaff. Not that I complain when I receive chaff. I just give seeds in the condition as I would like to receive them. Oh Well I guess I can't please everyone..Well at least someone will have some nice new seeds. At this point..I just feel that God knows my heart and intentions. No harm is ever meant from me to any person. I just wont do it anymore. It really makes it bad for those that have appreciated this offer. A few months ago I dug over 300 daffodil bulbs washed..etc and just plain gave away for postage..I don't like to talk about the things I do. Because eveything I do for others is always done in love. It's just a shame when I become the bad guy for asking for $.49 postage. I have trades too and often get ripped off. Like...last week for instance. This person received nice plants. Now wont return my emails.
Dicouraged Kim
Kim!! don't get discouraged, there are so many wonderful traders out there and you are one of them in my book. You go above and beyond to make a good trade!! After reading all of this perhaps next time just say that you need 98 cents in postage stamps, as you are picking, cleaning, packing and mailing these free seeds. :) and I KNOW FOR A FACT that you either use bubble wrap or a bubble mailer.
Laurrie
Kim
I'm sorry you feel discouraged, I admit to getting a little cheesed off myself when I receive emails saying seeds given for free (not even postage because international SAE just isn't a simple or quick process) haven't arrived (customs, lost in post?) and that I should send more out or complaints that I take too long sending them out when it's only been two days and post between the US and UK just isn't that quick *G* Hence why I'm not on this forum much now, just once in a while. However, the majority are lovely people and like yourself, I get great pleasure from being able to share seeds.
I wouldn't ask for .98 cents of stamps but 2 x .49 because if you only get one stamp or several one with a large amount and the others tiny amounts, you still end up in the same position as now. I didn't understand the first post, like others here, I had assumed it was just .49 cents.
Keep your chin up :)
Kim please don't get discourage, ........I don't think you did anything wrong and the .49 postage you kept was a mere pentance compaired to the seed you shared. It is to bad that we have so many people around us that are just sooooo greedy they would want their .$49 cents back if they did not get every seed you offered.
Well needless to say you are learning. You are learning who you can and can't trade with............and that is the pitiful part of the whole thing.
I didn't have any trouble reading and understand what you posted and I would have sent you 3, 50 cent stamps just so I didn't have to hassel and drive back to the post office and then would have counted my blessings that I got all those seeds for such a bargain...........as I said in the other post has anyone checked the price of seed lately.......... Burpees Seed company should be on the Stock Exchange...... 1.34 and up.....most at 1.79 per package and just a few seeds tooo.
And if I didn't understand or there was a question, then I would have asked you first before I sent anything.
Just my opinion......
;op
Dee
Kim, I hope you got mine...I've given away plenty of seeds myself, and I understand the hassle of not having the proper envelope/postage/notes...it can be a real pain. I didn't mind sending the extra postage to you just because of that! That's work, hun!
It would be nice to see a forum where you could trade plants/seeds for non plant/seed items as long as the trades are tangent items other than money.
I have traded jewelry for plants/seeds and have a link posted on another site on my availability list but I don't specifically advertise in my want/have posts.
The "other site" has a non-gardening trade forum but you have to be a contributing member and I don't contribute to that particular site.
You shouldn't be discouraged Kim, you asked for people's opinion of your original post, and that is what you got. I don't think anyone is making you out to be a bad guy for asking for the extra stamp. Sending seeds out for SASE is a lot of work for the person with the seeds, and a deal for the person receiving, and there are alot of people who will just copy and paste your have list in place of their want list, and expect it all for nothing.
JMHO
Deb
I have seen people tradin plants and seed for other things, so it's not just seed for seed and plant for plant. It is up the the individual. If you are satisfyed with a deal then it is your buisness what you traded for..........."as long as it was legal" anyway.............
IF you made ear rings that I liked and I had some plant you wanted then we could trade and that would be alright as far as I know...
:o)
Dee
I went back and read the trading rules and here is what it says so apparently Dave allows asking for addition postage and non plant items to trade as long as both parties agree. That is good to hear.
Jan...
Someone posted seeds (or plants), but when I e-mailed them, they asked me to send money instead of postage or a trade.
This is generally not acceptable practice on trading forums, except in some International Trades, (See Section 5)
Selling plants or seeds are the domain of online auctions and mail-order nurseries. You should alert the webmaster if someone is attempting to sell plants or seeds via the trading forums.
On the other hand, if someone has posted seeds or plants you want, and you don't have seeds or plants to trade, the trader may be open to accepting additional loose postage or a nominal amount of money, or even other items - handmade note cards or stationary, plant tags, etc. Be creative in your offer, but don't press a trader to accept something they don't want.
Ah, the woes of being generous! LOL! I, myself, have been amazed to find how upset some people can be about free seeds. I prefer trading, but often, the seeds offered me, though tempting, just won't grow here. In many cases, I just end up sending seeds without receiving any. I guess this would be an SASE, if I asked for it, but generally, I send the seeds at my own expense. My seeds are sent in packets with pictures of the plant, instructions for planting and growing, as well as descriptions of the plant. All seed packets have an inner wax paper packet so that seeds cannot escape.
You might wonder why in the world I do this. I guess, like Kim, I love to share my seeds with new eager gardeners, as well as the seasoned ones. I want it to be a good experience for all of us, just as Kim probably does. I appreciate the positive feedback when the seeds are received, and I just love to hear of successes with my seeds. I think we all enjoy that... knowing seeds from one of your plants have produced similar plants all over the world.
However (here it goes!), sometimes, I get very busy here and don't get the seeds out in a timely manner. I try not to, but it happens. Now, mind you, many times, these are several packets of harvested, sifted, double hand-packed seeds, sent in bubble wrap, no postage reimbursement required, and still I will get the occasional indignant, unhappy email... even a complaint or two to admin.
I understand that once I have agreed to send the seeds, that is what I should do. I understand that I should ask for postage and envelope if I want it, I understand these seeds were offered on my trade list.... but it still is disheartening to offer something free because it makes me feel good, only to apparently not live up to expectation and both of us feel bad.
I suppose I should just quit sending free seeds, quit offering SASE, if it doesn't bring me pleasure, but for every unhappy or ungrateful gardener, I send out 10 mailings to really nice folks. I get to visit with them by email, and often we keep in touch.
I think that any sort of payment for seeds, somehow infers the recipient 'entitlement'. If the packet is too small, if the seeds don't germinate, if they are not received in a timely manner... whatever the case, they feel they are owed something. My suggestion, Kim, would be to stick with SASE or just do trades. This should be fun for you, not stress.
Kim,
I hate it when a nice person like you, gets abused. Please don't let the experience change you!!!!
Hi Kim I sent bubble envelope with stamps attached, two 37cent ones
I don't know Kim and I am not making any judgements either way but will offer my experience on SASE and trades. When I used GW a lot, I often did seed packs for newbies. I would package either 20 or 25 packs of seeds, use my bubble wrap and my envelopes. I asked that the other person sent me $1 postage/to cover everything. That was considered selling. Why? I did not offer goods for goods. I had to stop doing it. Another minor detail that causes problems...trades vs. postage. A trade is where both people get something. For postage means the person wanting the item, sends the postage to get an item from another person and the person sending the item gets nothing in return. I think to simplify things, you should either post you want to trade for new stamps, or offer the items for postage. I think the confusion comes in when you cross the two. Does that make sense to you? If you are sending for SASE, that is the stamped envelope to get the seeds from you to them only. If they throw in a stamp or two, so what. BUT, if you ask for extra stamps, it is in some sense a profit/or a trade because you did end up with something. I'm not saying any of it is right or wrong, but that is how it looks/sounds. We have a very good tutorial here at DG on trading, but I cannot remember if sase is covered. Hmmmm. The co-op rules also specify the host cannot profit. They cannot ask you to add extra money if they cannot prove where it is going to be spent. I think most of us round to the next dollar or add in a buck or two for unexpected expenses, but it is not asked for or required. I know it is kind of off the subject but also shows how a slight technicality makes a big difference.
I don't trade very often because I don't have the space for new things, but I do give away seeds for SASE. However, I don't send out anything until I get the SASE. Most people provide a bubble pack envelope but if they don't, I wrap the seeds in bubble wrap. Once in a great while, someone will send money instead of stamps, and that's o.k., as not everyone can get to the post office whenever they want an odd amount of postage.
By the way, I still have plenty of seeds left for SASE.