I have often read on seed packets that some seeds can be planted in the fall. Has anyone tried this? I have loads of space outside to give this a try in a nursery bed and if successful transplant to perennial beds and borders which I am trying to expand. Isn't that how it happens in nature when seeds mature and drop from the plant? It frequently happens in my own garden on its own - I have columbines seeding themselves all the time. Some seed starting instructions require chilling of seeds before planting - why not let mother nature do it? I would appreciate any feedback on your experiences - specifically when would you plant and what perennial varieties might be successful.
Susan
Direct sowing of perennial seeds in the fall?
Well, Susan, I have scattered seed of Papaver Somniferum in the fall and they showed up next theseason. Also, some daisies! good luck,..........Elaine
When we bought our house 3 years ago, the outside hadn't been completed yet, so had no garden that summer. We do however have a deck over our garage and I had a huge pot out there with some kind of flowers in it, can't remember what. Around mid-October, my mother's friend sent with her to my place with an envelope full of sweet pea seeds and said "just throw them in the garden, they'll grow". So I threw them in this pot on my deck. In the spring nothing happened, so I figured they died from the cold, as the pot stays outside on the deck all winter. I planted Lupins in thet pot that spring and they were lovely, but in the fall decided I didn't want them in a container anymore so moved them into my new garden. I found sweet peas in the pot under the Lupins. The next spring I planted herbs and a couple of tomato plants in the pot; I was picking out sweet peas all summer. This year I planted flowers in the same pot-gerber daisies, allysum, mums. I'm still pulling out sweet peas.
So I think its just fine to plant seeds in the fall. By the way, silly question time, are sweet peas perennials??
They are classified as annuals, but they can self-seed. I'm going to try it this fall, as I'd love to see them come back in the spring.
Shannon
Roselaine - Thanks for the reply. I am going to try some poppies too.
ceedub - I didn't know that sweet peas were that robust! I am more interested in perennials but your experience makes me think I will try sweet peas as well to see if they would make it throught the winter in my zone. If it works it's just one less little job to do in the spring!
Susan
Christine, there is a perennial sweetpea. Scentless, a mauve/purple. Echoes probably knowsthe name - right!!
I plant carrots, spinach and lettuce just before snow falls. Gives them a ehat start in the spring. Oh yes, don't forget about lilies and iris..
Inanda
Thanks Inanda, I'll try and find out from my mother's friend what kind of sweetpea they are. Be interesting to know for sure. I don't have any lilies in my gardens right now, which is unconscionable because I have a cat named Lily ... lol. I plan to fix that this weekend. Don't have the room for veggies, unfortunately, but I do grow some tomatoes in containers on my deck. I think I'll get some more of those sweetpea seeds from mom's friend too, and give them a corner in my back garden, since they're so darn hardy.
perennial sweet peas - Lathyrus latifolius. Not hardy for me.
Well, I guess it could be a zone thing, except that the seeds "wintered" in a terra cotta pot filled with earth, 12 feet above ground level, and got snowed and rained on for three winters in a row, spending much of that time frozen solid!! Maybe its just that Betty's plants have grown hardy because she's had them at the side of her house (she's in zone 5b) for so many years. Of course I'm totally hypothesizing here, and don't really know what I'm talking about ...lol. I talk to my mother in the a.m., I'll ask her to find out something.
Ceedub,
They will be hardy for you. I lived N of you for 29 years (Near Port Perry) & they did well for me.
Inanda
Inanda..so you were quite close to me too at one time.
I was in Port Perry just last week shopping on the main street.
I am going to try planting some lupin seeds this fall and maybe a few other perennials seeds..just like Mother nature does..it makes sense to me..I have had lots of Rudbeckia reseed themselves.
Since these sweatpeas keep popping up, I suspect that they've taken a good hold in this pot. Next year I'm going to plant nothing new in the pot and see what pops up ... well maybe some allysum ... lol. Worst case scenario, if I'm wrong and they're finished, I'll just have to plant stuff in the pot a little later than May 24th.
Just an update to my original post… I have been reading Lois Hole’s book Perennial Favorites which is sort of a standard reference here in southern Alberta by a local author and greenhouse owner. Here is what she has to say:
Some perennials can be sown in fall, but this must be done late enough that the seeds will not germinate until spring. Certain seeds need a prolonged freeze-thaw period (stratifying) in order to germinate. If you sow seeds in fall, sow them thickly, because germination will be poorer than with spring seeding. Be sure to mark the area so you don’t mistakenly cultivate in spring. Label the plants so you know which variety is growing. An area of the garden designated as a ‘seedling bed’ is ideal. You may be able to use a corner of your vegetable garden for this purpose. Seedlings are ready to be transplanted once they have produced two or three sets of leaves.
Perennials she suggests are suitable for fall sowing are:
Snowdrop Anemone
Beardtongue (Penstemon)
Blue Fescue
Blue Oat Grass
Delphinium
Foxglove
Hollyhock
Lupin
Meadowsweet (Filipendula)
Pasqueflower
Poppy
Snakeroot (Bugbane)
She's right about having a seedling nursery. Otherwise in spring enthusiam to weed the babies disappear.
I like to seed them in windowbox planters. Call it Winter sowing.
Susan, thanks for the quote. Aren't Lois' books great? I just got the one on bulbs. Is she still Alberta's Lieutenant-Governor?
Shannon
Shannon - Yes, as far as a know she still holds that position. I have two books - one on annuals and one on perennials. They are great and it's nice to have a reference that is so specific to my own zone. I am going to pick up her book on trees and shrubs and I think she has one for roses too.
Are you sowing any seeds this fall? I am busy cleaning up the veggie garden to steal some space for a nursery bed and give a few perennials a try. I haven't completely decided what I am going to plant but I think that I will try poppies, lupins, delphiniums and penstemon.
Susan
Hi Susan,
The one on trees & shrubs is excellent - you won't be sorry! Ditto for the one on tomatoes, but if you're reducing the vegetable garden that may not be relevant. I also bought her book on herbs & edible flowers - I bought it on-line, and was a little disappointed when it arrived. It includes a great many plants, but doesn't seem to be set up for easy reference to the same degree as the others, and includes a lot of recipes and line drawings, which takes space away from info about the plants in my opinion. Might appeal to someone who cooks a lot, though - it's part of her new "gardening for the kitchen" series. Oh well, that's what I get for shopping online! LOL I'm still glad I bought it.
I've sown some poppy seeds so far, and some annual viola - thinking about delphiniums too. Lois says not to put them in a windy or hot location, and that they need full sun - this presents a challenge, in our yard at least. What type of spot have you got lined up for yours?
Shannon - I live on an old farmstead and there were two huge garden plots when we moved here. One is in a wide open space with full sun all day. We mainly use it for potatoes, corn and sometimes pumpkins. The other space is a great set up because it is a long rectangle (175 ft by 40 ft) that runs east/west with caragana hedges on the north and south side. The hedges provide great wind protection and we trim the hedge on the south side shorter so we don't shade too much of the garden. It started as mainly a veggie garden but my interest in perennials has been growing and as a result flowers are encroaching on the vegetables more each year. I plan to plant the delphiniums in this garden.
Susan
Sounds like just the ticket, Susan. Full sun, shelter....gotta love caragana hedges, eh? I'll be curious to know how the delphiniums do when they show up next year. That'll save a lot of time in the spring.
OK Susan I caught you. Show the pictures of your wire boxes, to keep the birds off.
Just when I was starting to think that I wouldn't get a chance to try fall sowing, we had a couple days break from the cold weather we have been experiencing lately. I was able to get into the garden to sow some seeds today. My experiment has started - here is what I planted:
1. Dames Rocket (Hesperis)
2. Wild Lupin (Lunpinus perennis – Sundial Lupine)
3. Penstemon (Rocky Mountain Blue)
4. False Sunflower
5. Columbine (Red/White)
6. Golden Marguerite (Anthemis tinctoria)
7. Hollyhock (Red)
8. Delphinium (Magic Fountains Mix)
9. Lupin (Mixed)
10. Siberian Wallflower (Cheiranthus allioni)
11. Foxglove (Foxy Mix)
12. Mountain Ash Tree
Can't wait to see what happens in the spring....
Susan
Nice to see you are back Echoes.
Thanks Lynn.
Very funny echoes !! I suspected that I wasn't the only one who leads a double life! I find that in my never ending quest for garden knowledge, I am like a sponge and the more help I can get the better. Plus, you can't have too many friends right?
I was inspired by a suggestion from one of my other "friends" to provide protection for fall sown seeds and came up with the boxes shown in the picture below. They are shipping boxes that measure about 18X8 inches with the bottoms removed and sunk into the ground. I sowed the seeds inside and covered with wire to keep birds and other critters from chowing down on my experiment over the winter and into the spring when (or if) the seeds start to sprout. They will also provide protection so that seeds don't wash away with the snow. For me the added bonus is that in the spring I will be able to see (remember) where I planted.
Susan
Excellent idea, Susan!
That is a great idea! I think a nursery bed is my next step. I just have to find a spot that gets some sun, has good drainage, and doesn't have push-piles of snow on it in the spring.
I can't take credit for the original idea - but I thought it was a good one too! The person who suggested it to me used ice cream buckets with the bottoms cut off. I cut the bottoms off a couple large pots saved from shrubs I planted this year and used those to plant in also.
We have such a problem where with drainage in the spring. If I winter sow in containers, no matter how many holes are in the bottom, the bottoms freeze up and the seeds or seedlings can drown in spring rains. If I broadcast seeds, I have to remember where they are. This is a good solution.
Thanks for the idea durtcom ........ I'll be trying it next year.
Ditto for me, durtcom! I'm going to try that tommorrow, if it's not so windy that I have to put rocks in my pockets so I don't fly away! lol!
I also just read an article in an old magazine that says you can get away with planting spring bulbs into Nov. if your ground isn't frozen. I never got everything in, so I gave it a try and planted some Tardia botanical tulips and some snow crocuses today. The article also said if the ground was frozen you could just chuck them on the ground and cover them with 20cm of commercially bagged soil. The author of the article did this in Dec. in zone 4. I just that I'd add that interesting tidbit!
It just goes to show that this incredible will to live that seems present in all creatures probably started with plant seeds. Their amazing tenacity is the only thing that allows me to survive as a gardener. Didn't plant anything on the weekend but finally started my fall cleanup. Was a lovely afternoon for emptying pots and storing them in the garage.
Do you know how late you can lift glad corms? Assuming I can dig through the snow to them.
I would still dig them up June. The ground hasn't frozen and they're pretty hardy, compared to some of the things we have to dig up.
I'd be skeptical of bulbs surviving with some potting soil covering them above ground level. If you do that, I'd cover them with additional mulch, both on top and around the pile. Bulbs can suffer from the freeze and thaw of early spring (even winter here). Sometimes, during a warm winter spell, they will begin to bud, then a cold snap will kill them during a growth period. Of course, perhaps your winters get cold and just stay that way.
Weez, I thought she was asking about bringing them in to store for the winter.
Echoes, this is the part of Songbird's post I am talking about, referring to spring tulip bulbs:
"The article also said if the ground was frozen you could just chuck them on the ground and cover them with 20cm of commercially bagged soil. The author of the article did this in Dec. in zone 4"
Oh, right. Sorry I got lost.
That's how I read it too - with the bulbs being outside covered with potting soil (in lieu of actually digging them into the ground). Hope it works!
We used to be able to rely on winters being relatively cold all the way through, but in these last few years you just never know what's going to happen. Then there's the chinooks, of course.
I agree w/ jagonjune, it's just amazing what seeds will survive through.
No problem, Echoes. If you got lost somewhere, you're bound to bump into me stumbling around, as well! LOL! As for planting spring bulbs, I've done mine when the ground was well on its way to freezing. I don't think the bulbs mind once they get in the ground. Now, if it was cold and soupy with slush, I think there would be a problem. Wet and cold could be an issue, I think.
Good to hear there is hope for bulbs planted at this time. I just put some in the ground this weekend too. I wasn't holding my breath for a good result in the spring but I had them so I planted them. This is the first time I have ever been planting anything when there has been snow on the ground next to me!