Miracle Gro

Hey, McDonald's advertises their chicken nuggets as containing "all natural ingredients" but never mentions the word "chicken"... I guess that's Truth in Advertising.

As an example, arsenic is a naturally occurring mineral. I don't want to eat it, nor have it in garden water that runs off into my creek... Many commercial fertilizers contain arsenic.

I agree, the only way you can really be sure things are OK is if it has the OMRI seal on it. If that seal is on there, then you know that it's been approved by OMRI so it meets their standards. There are probably things out there that don't have the seal on them that would be OK to use in the spirit of organic gardening, but you just have no way of knowing and most of those sort of claims aren't really regulated in any way, so companies can say almost anything. So if you want to be sure you're organic, stick to things with the OMRI seal on them.

Problem is that it's almost impossible to find potting soil and general fertilizers with that seal on them. Since I'm growing things for myself and not for a market I feel that I have to take that risk. And even my friend's horse manure probably has chemicals in it because they doubtless worm them or use other treatments on them. I don't use it anymore anyway because of the weeds, but it's hard to be sure what's okay and what's not. I don't even feed my chickens organically, so their manure and the pine shavings it's mixed with probably wouldn't pass OMRI either, but I know it's a lot healthier than some other options.

Of course that's true, gg... and a risk I'd take.

I am fortunate that 100 miles away is a supplier who carries organic fertilizer, organic compost (man, talk about black gold!), organic potting soil and even organic seed starter. I try to keep a good list and just make a trip once in spring and again in fall.

Yabut: what about Spray-N-Grow products?

Dunno, never used them, never bought them, never even looked at the package.

They seem to be implying that the ingredients are 'natural'; you might want to call them or email them and see what they say about it. I have used them in the past but am not sure if I want to do it again, so if you find anything out, please let us know! There's a difference between something that's not OMRI certified and something that's Monsanto-esque. I might be willing to use the product if the sources do seem natural, but right now the jury is out.

Leslie

If they list their ingredients (or are willing to tell you what they are when you call) then you can probably make a pretty decent judgement on whether you feel OK about using it even if it's not technically organic. But if they won't tell you what's in it then I'd be suspicious.

Spray-n-Grow ingredients are listed as Iron (.10%) and Zinc (.05%), that's it. Doesn't even show any "inert ingredients".

Both iron and zinc are "natural" BUT who knows the source of the iron they are using.

I bought a 4-bottle offer about ten years ago (maybe more!) and have 3 bottles never opened and a 4th bottle with half left in it. Guess I never saw many results to continue using it, eh?

Shoe

There are several sources that discuss whether Spray-N-Grow is "organic." Here's one that is supposedly unaffiliated

http://www.planetnatural.com/site/xdpy/kb/spray-n-grow.html

I take a moderate stance on the use of Miracle Gro. I use it on my ornamentals exactly once a year, in Spring. I find the dose of Nitrogen is great for getting things off to a good start, and that the organics I use at planting time, and the rest of the year seem to give me longer term results. Just FYI, I use blood meal, bone meal, well-rotted steer manure, compost, and fish emulsion. On my fruit trees (or any other food crop) I do not use Miracle Gro, as it seems they hardly need it with everything else I use. The citrus seem to really like the blood and bone meal, but you really have to scratch it in around the drip line. Eventually, I hope to have CLOSE to a permaculture forest with the various layers and leaf fall creating the cycle of fertilization and growth. I'll have to intervene with my own compost in the mean time. . .

This is an interesting discussion about OMRI and other organic certifications, from Peaceful Valley Garden Supply.

http://www.groworganic.com/greybox.html?pBoxName=Organics

My 2 cents - a few years ago I bought Miracle Gro potting soil because nothing else was available at my local nurseries (we had no big box stores in my area back then). I transplanted seedlings into this stuff - bad mistake. They all shriveled and died within days. The chemical fertilizer in this stuff is just too strong for young roots.

I would prefer to patronize my local nurseries, but not one of them carries any brand of soil other than Miracle Gro. How did this company get a monopoly like this?

Winterrobin, mine do just fine in their "organic" potting soil.

It seems as though I've seen other brands around here recently; I don't remember whether it was in Home Depot or at Garden Road Greenhouse or Tractor Supply. If I see it again I'll let you know. I ran around this weekend looking for more marigolds, Victoria Blue salvia, and trailing lobelia, and finally went back to Garden Road for the latter two and found marigolds at Home Depot. Camp's Farm Market has a bunch of bedding plants, by the way, including some Pistou basil and other herbs.

Any good local nurseries to recommend out your way?

Leslie

Hi, Leslie! Where is Camp's Farm Market? Sounds interesting!
I haven't been out and about to the nurseries yet this spring. I keep hoping for improvements over the usual impatiens. And the big boxes keep carrying plants that don't even do well in the area, like leopard's bane (I forgot the Latin name). This HATES
humidity. Gosh I'm getting grouchy in my old age.

Camp's is in Port Elizabeth just past the PO going north, on the other side of Delsea Drive. They have a lot of flowers and vegetables as well as the herbs. They never used to do this but they've been expanding their offerings in recent years. I was tickled to find that they had Benary Giant Zinnias last year, so I bought several flats from them. I adore zinnias. Camp's also has great corn in the summer, and a nice mix of other veggies. We get sweet potatoes from them, too.

The big box stores have rather puny-looking flowers. I looked there for roses and they were in awful shape! We like to go to Bob's Garden Center near the Hamilton Mall if there are a lot of things we need; they have an excellent selection and their plants are usually pretty healthy. Last spring I got some great azaleas from The Flower Farm in Millville, but usually I find them frustrating to deal with; there's no one around to help and they don't sell many six-packs, just single plants at elevated prices. Garden Road Greenhouse is good, though. They're in northern Vineland.

For lack of alternatives (and being lazy) I bought Miracle-Gro organic potting soil and it's TERRIBLE. There are so many big wood chips it looks like mini mulch, the tops of the pots are hard as a rock and it pulled away from the pot so there's a gap that the water will just run through if I don't fluff it every day. Never again.

I'm not impressed with it either, but there are no other alternatives around here. I don't think my experience has been as bad as yours but it does have large wood chips and a chunky texture. I often set my pots in a pan that I can add water to, so they get their water from the bottom up and that seems to work fairly well.

I think next year I'll try to order organic potting soil online if I can find a decent price for it.

I had 2 bags of it, 2 cu. ft. each, that my sister bought... just 'garden soil' not a potting mix... I did mix it half with some good soil and used it in a new bed... it dries out quickly.

I saw their "garden soil," too, but I have plenty of my own in my beds. You're finding that it dries out more quickly than other products? Our soil is basically sand, so we have had to add lots of compost and mulch to build it up so that it holds water, but it's not too bad by now.

My soil is sticky clay and holds too much water! I should have mixed it with the MG stuff, but I used some already amended soil instead (lazy way out)... so maybe a bit too much of the bark chips, etc?

Oh well, they'll break down sooner or later and add nice organic matter to your soil.

We're in the Pine Barrens, so our soil is not only sandy but acid. It's a bit of a challenge! We had it built up nicely and then had to do a repair on our septic system about ten years ago, so all that nice amended soil ended up underneath and we had to start almost all over again! I don't know which is worse - too much sand or too much clay!

How about too much clay with a high pH? Constant battle here because we sit on a limestone shelf...

Okay, too much sand with a low pH!

new to the forum and thread but just wanted to add
- health issues forced me to realize:
I am no longer afforded the luxury (ha ha ha) of lifting and tugging the usual soil amendments. . . and fighting this Carolina clay!
(darius - the ONLy thing I found helpful with this clay is a product called 'SoilConditioner'. smaller than mulching chips, larger than soil - DOES help. 1/3 each of SC, purchased garden soil and native yard clay. - but the clay eventually wins.)

so i now use brick coir. found some relatively reasonable at instagarden.com (they are a DG member).

placed in a bucket (covered), hydrated and fluffed.
once covered stays fresh.

but JUST ordered some from another - MORE reasonable site.
($5.95 for an 8" X 8", -3.5lb brick that, alone, makes 5 gallons.
then add 20% perlite. )

will give an update on this cheaper source once it arrives.

will need to return to discover what all I need to do to correctly fertilize this coir!

thanks all for having this forum!

maybe i SHOULD sign up for that Master Gardeners course offered at our Local extension.

Glee, Thanks. I added SC to my soil in Asheville; it was okay for a time, but I found Greensand mixed with other amendments did a better job. I really don't understand how Greensand is able to loosen clay soil and also 'tighten' sandy soils so they hold moisture and amendments better... but it does.

Great thread, BUMP!

Darius, WOW. I have avoided MG for years now, since I was told by a trusted soul that MG is too full of salts and other cumulative stuff.
I really like the Espoma products. I am fortunate to be in an area with many nurseries, and also the Big Box companies. I rarely go into the Big Boxers though.
Why, at my favorite nursery, they know me by name! LOL! They have a great selection of organic items, and NO EVIDENCE of MG products except in small quantities.
I was at my local Southern States this weekend, and could not get over the bags and bags of MG-infused soil! YUCK! I ran in the other direction. Quickly.

I found the alfalfa tea recipe, looks like wonderful stuff. Now, I don't have pellets (gave them away after the goat died) but I do have half of a really large bale of alfalfa, and a 100 gallon stock tank, and epsom salts. For fish emulsion, pond goo or pond water is best? Have both... I'd like to make a batch of tea using what I have on hand. At least until I've used that alfalfa for something.

I have a couple of left over year-old alfalfa bales that I'm readying for straw bale gardening.

I don't know if that would work in Texas. I'd probably get a nice fire ant nest in there. Think I'm chunking some alfalfa in a stock tank with water later today.