Those of you willing to share, could you post some pics, and I can send you what you need (money, postage, etc....) to send them to me, when they seed? I already have Karyn Riggs and Isabella going. The others didn't make it (and are covered with a thick green moss now - think if I tried to pick it off, the seeds would be exposed, if they haven't rotted). I'd really like some of that Iocroma Flush, if at all possible (I'm truly in love with that beauty - WOWZA) but would like to see other options from those with seeds that can share. I have perennial seeds to trade, but no Brug seeds to trade yet, as I'm new at this. I'd even give the Iocroma Flush a chance at a cutting if that is the only way to get it.
WANT TO START SOME MORE SEEDS
Karrie20x, Karen Riggs is not a Brug. It is the name of a person,she goes by the name Crestedchick on here.
I think I read somewhere that you got cuttings or seeds from her,I have seedlings started from her Lake Effect cross.
Root.
Karrie20x,The seeds you have are suavenolens crosses I think...
so you can refer to them as Suavenolens X's or Suave X's or even Karyns's X's,or CC's seedling's if you like
But to refer to them as Karyn Riggs's means the brugs that were crossed were named Karyn Riggs...which they were not....It will confuse people,many of us are blond......
There is no brug called Karyn Riggs.....
YET
When some one breed's the first everblooming Purple Double brug, with pink picotte edges I'm hoping they will name it after me...LOL
Maybe I have the first KR Brug,LOL!! I doubt it is going to be a Double Purple,LE X PB, I sure like the corrugation and serration of the leaf.
MY babies!
You are such a good brug Daddy......
Lake Effect seems to have big seeds and big seedlings....
Karrie20x ,when I get more seeds from some other crosses I will send you some.....
I have 2 pods on Amber Rose that have got to be getting close.......
Well, if it isn't a Brug, then what is it? Mine sure looks like a type of Brug to me! :)
LOL Karrie! You are too funny!
http://davesgarden.com/t/430499/
This message was edited Jun 4, 2004 9:57 AM
Karrie...I think what they are trying to tell you that what you have is a brug...but its name is not Karen Riggs!
Noone named this Hybrid????? I can name them whatever I want, after they bloom? The reason why I've been calling them Karyn Riggs is because that is what it said on the seed packet sent to me, as well as "Suave". (actually I think Kathryn Riggs had been written by mistake, but that was cleared up a few weeks ago, lol!)
Karyn, I would love some other types! Then I'll start doing some crosses myself and who knows what I will come up with!
Brug etiquette 101
You NEVER name a brug without checking with the Hybridizer
The hybridizer is the person who grew the mother plant,and harvested the pod that contained the seeds you grew.
The Hybridizer has the right to name the seedling.......
You ALWAYS offer cuttings to the HYBRIDIZER FIRST!
99% of seedlings are not named because they are either not worthy,or look like something that has already been named....
These rules are not written in stone but if someone is found to be naming seedling without following these rules they will most likely never get anyone to send them seeds again.
So don't hold your breath waiting for a wonderful new hybrid to emerge from the brug babies cause chance's are that it will look like a frosty pink....if its a suave X
but there is that 1% chance you'll get something awesome....especially if a brug was bee pollinated ,cause hopefully the daddy was not a suavenolens
So are YOU the hybridizer of this Karyn Riggs Suave?
Also, what about the Isabellas I have?
I feel like the village idiot in Brugsmansiaville, lol! Gotta learn somehow!
This message was edited Jun 2, 2004 12:24 PM
It is not a Karyn Riggs Suave X
it is just a suave X hybridized by me
but just forget mine name in the whole thing....unless you end up with that double purple.....
Isabella is
Isabella X ?
so they are isabella mother plant
and the daddy is unknown=?
If there is a name after the X it means that was the daddy
if its a ? it means it was bee or moth pollinated
or sometime the tags fade and the writing is not readable so you can't tell what the pollen doner was.That happens to me a lot
Ya know, I'm going to have to get that information from ShirleyMD1, who sent me the seeds, as I lost the empty seed packets that have that info and I wrote very limited info on the markers, because I didn't have much space. I thought I'd saved the empty seed packets, to fall back on, but I can't find them anywhere.
Karrie: I think what crestedchik is trying to tell you is that: She is Karyn Riggs aka crestedchik. She is the hybridizer. The seeds are from her plants that she raised. The flowers were pollinated by bees or moths, so she does not know from what brugmansia plant the pollen came from. She harvested the seeds and shared them with other people -- Shirley1md, among others (I have some of her seedlings from seeds that that someone else sent me). She "owns" the rights to the seedlings that you are raising, because they are "her seeds". When you receive seeds, the package is going to have what the cross is (Isabella X ?) and the hybridizer's name (Karyn Riggs), so that proper credit can be given to the hybridizer when the plant matures and blooms. With named hybrids and crosses, its real important to keep track of this information, if you want people that take this seriously to share future seeds and cuttings with you. I would imagine that when you get in touch with Shirley1md, she will also tell you all this. I hope this is helpful. Gretchen :)
THANK YOU!!!!
I couldn't have said it better.....infact you did say it soooo much better.....
anyone its ole me again cuttings anyone for?? blessings all.
You're welcome :)
Brug etiquette:
What if the seeds are purchased - for instance I bought mine from Cala's store. Does the hybridizer still own the rights to seeds that were sold?
Eileen
Believe it or not guys, I DID get that part of the message. What I am trying to figure out is where Karyn got hers from, to begin HER cross breeds, etc... etc...... How do we start generically so that we have OUR own?
I mean, Karyn isn't the actual PARENT - she made crosses, which I can do also, correct? Whether manually or with Birds and Bees, which I plan on doing both, when I am at that point. I do have some ideas, but NOT SHARING, lol! hee hee :)
I do not know what is considered the correct action, but I would think it would be a nice courtesy to let the hybridizer know what you got and offer a cutting. Just polite! If it is good enough to name and register, you do need to give the hybridzer credit but I would think you could name her and no feelings would be hurt.
The other reason to let the hybridizer know what you get is so she /he can decide if that cross is worth repeating or if it makes duds!
Gee Karrie, I did not mean to be flip earlier, I thought you were just kidding since on the other, earlier thread we had explained it to you. I thought you were being humorous! Sorry!
No, I just really don't get this, Kell, that's all! :) Didn't think you were flip.
I am completely new at this. Who hybridized what Karyn hybridized, I guess is what I am getting at. You know, the grandfather, great grandfather (and mothers) etc......
I mean, if I do a cross between two different plants, and come up with something cool, I think I should be able to name it, since I am the one that created it. As far as these existing plants, no, I didn't create them, I just planted seeds given to me. It sounded like earlier, I was supposed to let the original hybridizer name my new ones I create by crossing, and that doesn't make sense to me.
I have no problem giving Karyn credit for the ones I have right now. In fact - I PRAISE her for them. I love them, and they are doing spectacular for me - more than I'd hoped for.
Sometimes I think we (including myself) don't read these messages thoroughly, or read them differently than intended.
Or, sometimes, when we read things, they may seem clear to someone who's been there, but not to a newbie.
Anyways, I do appreciate all your help and your friendship. I'm just trying to learn as much as I can so that all this time and love I've invested in these plants pays off, and that they at least live, and maybe offer me something later, should I try to do crosses.
Wouldn't it stand to reason that if someone sold the seeds, that they sold their "right" to those seeds as well?
Just asking, because I don't see how someone who has already made a profit from the seeds can expect someone to germinate the seeds, grow them, and then give all the credit to the person who dabbed the pollen?
If someone is sharing seeds, I fully understand, but, seeds that have been purchased, I'm curious too.
these were shared, not sold
I understand that your seeds were a gift Karrie.
Eileen asked, and I am curious too, if the same courtesy
is expected from seeds that have been purchased.
I think if they are a cross from something, purchased or given, you should give credit by naming the crosses and the origins. But you should be able to give the new cross that you make your own name.
Mine, I think is a given: karebear dunno
that will be the first - and may it be purple! :)
Well Melissa, if I understand your question......... the hybridizer is the hybridizer whether the seed was sold or given. It never changes. The hybridizer always gets the credit for making the cross, dabbing the pollen on the stigma, and the grower of the seed gets credit for being the grower. The buyer can't take credit for hybridizng the brug for that would be a lie.
The only thing up for debate is whether the buyer of the seed owes the hybridizer a look at the seedling, a piece of the seedling and a say in the name. My view is that it would be polite to send the hybridizer a picture of the brug and offer a cutting. But I think if you bought the seed, you can name the seedling by yourself. Lets see what others say.
However, if you register it, you need to tell ABADS who the actual hybridzer was. I think they have a place for the grower if different than the hybridizer.
Thanks for clearing that up Kell I won't ever have to worry about it myself, but it's interesting to consider.
So if I take these Brugs that I have, and cross them with some other type, and come up with something unique, that makes me the hybridizer of what I come up with. Correct? I think I understand this, and I don't know how the confusion came about - I think with the whole Karyn Riggs thing that was written on that original seed packet, and I thought that was the name of the plant, although it was a Sauve.
So, if I cross this Suave with another Brug, I will mention BOTH crosses, as to what this "newbie" is, like we would in a family tree. (Grandpa Joe and Grandma Millie begat "Millers Joe Lovejoy) or begat "Karebear Dunno". Family tree is the key, correct?
Melissa, why will you not have to worry about it? It is so much fun to get seedpods. Try it, you will love it! LOL! I remember the first pollen I collected was for a lady named Glory. I remember she said to only send it to her if it was fluffy. I had no clue what she meant. I told her I would leave the seed making to her. LOL. Now a couple years later and I had to rent some land to grow my seedling on!
Kell, I bought seeds this winter and I killed them ALL! I am NOT a good seed germinator person!Daylily seeds I germ about 50/50, but those brug seeds didn't like me AT ALL! I probably killed a fantastic triple pink hoochie mama in that batch! I'm good with Morning Glory seeds, I've got them everywhere now because I figured I'd have my typical germination rate with them too.
I don't have outdoor space problem... but where in the world would I put 100 brugs for the winter? IF and that is a BIG ole IF, I got seeds to Germinate? Daylilies stay outside all year long... brugs gotta stay warm. :-)
OK, what is fluffy pollen? Remember I've only got 2 brugs, and I bought 2 more this weekend, expecting them tommorrow or Friday. They were supposed to be larger sized than the first ones I bought... ( I think) I'd REALLY like to have some blooming this year... they look amazing!
I was just thinking about your earlier post, Melissa, about the hybridizer. I see where you are coming from. Your description is somewhat accurate if it is a description of me. LOL!
I just dab pollen on here and there and everywhere but without much thought. I am just beginning to learn the parents and the gene lines. However, a real hybridizer like Monika, spends hours on her crosses. She takes copious notes every year about her crosses and what she got from them. She figures out who to cross to whom scientifically. She doesn't do what a lot of us do which is if 2 brugs are blooming in our yard, we cross them!
Monika starts with a vision in her head of what she wants to improve when she crosses 2 brugs. Each cross is done for a good reason. I imagine it can take several generations to get the characteristics she had first envisioned. It is like building a house. You needs to start with the cellar before you can put on the roof!
Plus the time it takes to study all the gene lines of each brug and know which characteristics are dominant. It really encompasses a lot to be a real hybridizer.
apparently noone is answering my question.
Oh Karrie, are you feeling neglected? LOL I think most people are asleep!
I will give you my opinion..... for what little it is worth.
I am copying your thread which I am loath to do. I apologize in advance for making anyone read a post twice!
? : So if I take these Brugs that I have, and cross them with some other type, and come up with something unique, that makes me the hybridizer of what I come up with. Correct?
My answer: YES!!! And even if you do not come up with something unique, you are the hybridzer. Well, all seedlings of this kind of brug are unique, but they may look very similar to each other.
?: So, if I cross this Suave with another Brug, I will mention BOTH crosses, as to what this "newbie" is, like we would in a family tree.
YES, it is so helpful to know where you came from to know where to go! You use different pollen donors according to the characteristics they may pass on to the offspring. So it helps to know the family tree.
Karrie,Sorry,this got so long I just scrolled to the end.Do you know how many Frostie pinks there are out there??
If every seed got named,you would never get one worth anything,you get the chance to grow seeds from CC(crested chick) Karyn,Karyn Riggs,you may get to name one,just follow the protocol.
Isabella is one of my favs,it is a slight variant on frosty,(suave)
someone got this as a seed and saw something in it that warranted the name,or naming, so be it,it is a great one,it is just you might buy 5 of these at one nursery with 5 different names.
This message was edited Jun 3, 2004 3:16 AM
Karrie,
If you yourself take 2 brugs,no matter what their names are ,and no matter who the hybridizer is
and you pollinate them or even if the bees pollinate it
you wait the long ,agonizing months of waiting for the pod to ripen
you grow out the seeds
the seedling's grow and bloom
then YOU are the hybridizer
You name it
You make the choices
compost or keep
Of all the seeds I've harvested there have only been 1 keeper
Susie grew it out
I do have one of Susies
EP X CG which bloomed last year that I like and kept
but it looks simalar to many other brugs so it remains un named (except to me) I kept it to use for breeding
I also have some of Monikas that are blooming size but are not something that is up to Monikas standards.(She culls HARD!)
I too am keeping them for breeding.This will be their second season ,maybe one of them will be special enough this year.They bloomed late last summer and sometimes the later blooms are different.But they come from good genes so even though they are un named ,it does not make them un suitable for breeding
So everyone should remember that you don't name and release every seedling you have.If one is a personal favorite ,keep it,use it for hybridizing or just for your own pleasure
Lake effect is one that was a seed sent to me in trade years ago.I finally started it,grew it out,and loved it
I have tried to find out who the hybridizer is...
all that was written on the seed pack was
Aurea cross with some numbers
it came out of California
about 5 years ago
( thats why I put my name on the seed packs)
Its a wonderful plant,huge leaves,tons of white blooms ,big flushes,resists wind damage,when brugs all around it were aphid infested it resisted them better,sets pods easy,and the seedlings that come from it are large and healthy.Ith also took heat and cold well,and bloomed in the GH in the winter.
I still have not released it ,because I want to make sure it really is something special,This year I will probably send cuttings to certian people to see how it grows in other parts of the country.
I would love to find who grew the pod
But I can't,Whe I first started it I posted the numbers to see if anyone recognized it
They deserve the credit for it
I have mixed feelings about naming it but I have not released it,and if I find the person who breed it they have all rights to it.
Very pretty, CC.
On the subject of if you buy seeds.... should the hybridizer have rights to resulting offspring? In ideal world ... yes :-) But I think it's unlikely that most people would notify the hybridizer of any worthy plants from the cross. Of course it would be nice, and it would be the "polite" thing to do... but I still think it's a fat chance in most cases. All of us here know Susie and will be eager to show her the babies we get from her seeds.... but I'm sure that there several customers that stumbled accross her website and have no idea how to even get back there.... Let alone notify her of any worthy plants that come from the seeds. I think it's just a risk you take when selling (or giving away) seeds. You don't give up yor right to the resulting hybrids but there's a good chance you'll never see what they'll turn out like.
To name and register a seedling I'm pretty sure you must be the hybridizer... period.
So sorry Melissa, I missed your second post last night I guess. I literally was falling asleep at the computer. Do not feel bad about your brug seeds. Maybe something was wrong with them or your technique just needs a little help. Just 2 years ago I had no clue how to peel a seed. Susie had to peel them and send them to me. And she did!! What a friend.
Do you peel them? I do. Then I soak in a 10% bleach solution. I tried using Physan20 and not one germinated. Then I used that rockwool and that really increased my harvest. If you want I would be happy to email you how it works for me. The first year I was not fancy though, just put them on window sills in enclosed containers and I did OK. DO NOT GIVE UP! Once it clicks for you, you too can become a seed hog like me! LOL Maybe it is the dirt you are using?
People in cold zones like you put them in their cellar. They go dormant! Lots will be discussed about that in August. Some just take small cuttings of their favorites and overwinter them in their house on windowsills. Where there is a will there is a way! LOL.
When pollen is new it has a fluffy appearance, it sticks to your brugs easily and is a delight to work with. As it ages it gets dry and flaky. It is not as easy to use and I bet not as successful.
What 2 brugs did you buy? Isn't this fun?
Well, thanks for answering the question about seeds that are sold. I've always enjoyed growing things from seed but I was never aware of the formalities of naming and registering plants. I guess if I want the really spectacular brugs, I'll have to wait for them to come over from Germany and get shared/sold. Meanwhile, I've got my babies to play with!
Eileen
OHHHHHHHHHHH I forgot to say Gee Sue, I had no clue that you could not register a brug unless you were the hybridizer. So a hot brug could go unregistered if no one knows the hybridzer?
And CC, I just love your Lake Effect. I really do! Release it girl!