Rockwool ?????

On the rockwool instructions as written on brugmansia.com, the writer says:

>>> Note the seed has been planted complete with the rockwool cube making root disturbance minimal. Never-the-less it is recommended that excess rockwool is very carefully teased away from the cube immediately prior to potting to ensure the tendency of the rockwool to retain moisture does not result in subsequent damage to the seedling>>>

I do not understand this. In the first sentence, he says 'note the seed has been planted complete with the rockwool...' and in the next sentence, he says 'nevertheless, it is recommended that excess rockwool is very carefully teased away from the cube, immediately prior to potting...' So, which is it, plant with rockwool or without??? If you plant without, how do you keep from damaging the seedling when it is removed from the rockwool??

Also, can I cut slots for the seeds with scissors??? In another seed thread, I noticed that Shirley appeared to have her seeds in a plastic bowl, and the rockwool appeared to sit on the bottom of the bowl, without a way to drain off excess water. Shirley's rockwool has a covering and mine does not. So, what should I place the rockwool in after I plant the seeds??? I don't have a wooden thingy to plant the seed, can I use my finger and how deep should the seeds be planted in the rockwool?? I really like Shirley's idea of using that plastic wrap that sticks together for a cover. Where should I put the seeds for growing, sun, shade, inside or out. If there is a thread where I can find the answers to these questions, please advise. TIA!!!!! I will become a brug farmer tomorrow am, wonder if I could get a crop loan, ha!!!!
SLike

Sherry, I'm not sure I understand all of this, but when your seed grows, you don't remove it from the rockwool. You plant everything. If you have the cubes it is no problem, they will break away from each other. If you use the slabs, I just scored them with a serrated knife before planting, down over halfway through, and they pulled away from each other just fine. I did cut the slab in half so it was only half the thickness though. As for the excess water...squeeze it out a little before you plant the seeds. You won't need to water the rockwool again until your seedlings are up and growing and even then, it will be a while. I just used a knife to make a little slit in the RW for the seed. I grew my seeds under lights. You don't want them to get hot, just normal house temps. There are probably others who do it differently. With brugs, I find that I can read a million things and I always just go back to what works best for me. Might not be the best for anyone else but for me, if it isn't broke, I don't try to fix it. There are lots of fertilizers, planting mediums, etc....and I sure can't take the time to try them all so I pretty much do the same thing over and over. The RW was new for me this year, but after I started sowing seeds in sterilized soil, I had even better luck. Now I'm having good luck with Rapid Rooters and other kinds of seeds. Especially Morning Glory seeds. This is just my opinion, but I don't think there is a perfect way to do anything when dealing with growing seeds. Just jump in and find what works for you best and stick with it. LOL!

Sherry,
Check out this link...http://davesgarden.com/t/426802/
it also has other links in it for the use of rockwool !
Good luck!!

This should give a link: http://davesgarden.com/t/426802/

Sherry...I just soaked my RW in the solution I made from the powder I ordered with the RW...a prep....I let the RW drain for a few min. Then I put in the seeds, so that you could still see the tops of them. Set the RW and seeds in a tray and into a plastic bag and secured. Any water in the bag from condensation, fall to the bottom of the bag, not into the tray with the RW. No brug or datura sprouts seen yet...but stringbeans and zucchini growing like crazy!

You just have to jump in and do it...it is really easy once you try !

I sincerely appreciate both you, Shirley and Margie!!! You answered my questions and I will post as soon as possible. Some times real life gets between m and my obsessions, ya know??!!

Happy Wednesday all!!! I have a quick question: Can SuperNatural, the rockwool soak or fertilizer, be used for anything but rockwool, like fertlizing plants??? After reading this a few more times and looking over the rockwool tutorial, yet again, I think I'm going to plant my seeds today. Not very many, 6, 6 & 12, tho the 12 naturally polinated seeds are much smaller than the others - wonder if I should plant two together??? BTW, the Dr Seuss JT sent should bloom within a day or two, wow, I'm a happy girl!!!! SLike

Sherry, some seeds are just naturally smaller than others. Don't think they won't do as well just because of size. Aurea seeds are large where suaveolens and versicolor, for example, are smaller .

Thanks, Shirley!! I have two sets of seeds that are HUGE and the naturally pollinated seeds are smaller, they look tiny compared to the other sets. I'll just plant 1 in each and see what happens. I'm doing them just like you did and the only difference would be that your little rockwool sections had a covering, mine do not. I'm going to use the smallest cubes. I guess I had spring fever yesterday, I could not get going, so today, I'm playing catch up. Later...SLike

Sherry...I would plant different size/types of seeds in different pieces of RW...just because if some come up faster than other you can remove them from the mini greenhouse without having to remove them all.
I found that with veggies...some were ready to be removed and others were not. It helped having them in a separate piece of RW!
I don't know if you can use the conditioner in other places.
Please post photos of your Dr. Suess!

Thanks Margie!!! The Dr Suess buds have a day or two to go, and they are small, and sweet and you can bet I'll photo them when they open!!!! Another question: I'm dying to try to root something. My original plant would probably be the plant to use. What type of shoot or cutting should I remove, or does it make a difference?? My barn is covered in aircon men, whew!!! SLike

Sherry, You can clone any part of the plant but it's best to use the new, softer green growth at the tips of the branches. I have much better luck when I use new growth tips, the cutting doesn't have to redevelop a growth site, it has a tip to grow from already. Does that make any sense?
On using the rockwool additive, I wouldn't use it on anything but RW. RW needs to be soaked to adjust the PH level, I forget where the PH is when you 1st buy it but it isn't optimum. That's 1 more reason I dislike RW. Plus any medie that has a warning label about handling it and breathing at the same time!LOL Plus RW makes awesome homes for many pests like fungus gnats and some other little worm that I forgot the name of. I used RW for a little while until I found those Oasis cubes I told you about. They are better at allowing water and air to mix when watering. You don't have to avoid watering the cubes and they disenterate much quicker than RW. OHBTW when you said it needed to be "Remove the extra RW before planting". They meant to strip away the outter most edges of the RW that don't contain any roots. You know how the fibers are vertically placed? You can "peel" away the outter edges by pulling from the top down and you'll have little RW strips. I guess they are afraid RW can hold too much water and cause stem rot. That's another benefit of Oasis cubes, when you water those, it brings oxygen in with the water and will drain out the extra which brings in more oxygen by displacing the water. I hope you can make sense of what I'm saying;). Some things are harder to describe in words, if I could show you, you'd go "Awww I see!". Good luck and please email or ask me anything you wish. Goodluck, JD

LOL! As you can see everyone has their favorite ways to start seeds. But since you have rockwool already Sherry let me tell you how I use it successfully with no muss, no fuss!

I do things the easiest way! I happen to love rockwool. I have over 300 healthy seedling this year I hate to admit! Some were just planted up to 5 gallon cans yesterday.

They are huge and healthy and beautiful!

I have never ever used any additive on the rockwool. I never squeeze out water after I wet it or cut any rockwool off after they have germinated and before planting.

I do not make it complicated in any way.

I take the rockwool and break it apart with my hands to fit into my tupperware. I then take it to the sink and fill it with warm water to cover. I then turn the container over with my hands on the rockwool to keep it from falling out. I drain all excess water out. I take my seeds and slightly push them into the holes in the rockwool so I can see see them. If I have more seeds than holes, I take a knife and make enough little slices in the rockwool to accomadate them all.

I then take a plastic bag and under the faucet and run a little water in it. I then swish the water around the bag and then turn it upside down and drain it. I then place my tupperware in it, blow some air into it, twist the top closed and secure it with a velcro tie. I put it directly under my lights on my seedlings rack.

I takes me about 2 mintues if that, to do it all!

When ready to plant in dirt, (WASH HANDS FIRST) I just open the bag and tear off the cube that has the seedling in it. I take my new pot, with dirt already in the bottom, place the rockwool cube in it, fill dirt around it and on top of it, press dirt firmly around. And water! I then prop up any remaining cubes not ready to plant up and blow air in bag and reclose! Then back under the lights.

I wish I had taken more pictures but here is one I took when I was first doing it.

JD, I beg to differ on the
~~~ Plus RW makes awesome homes for many pests like fungus gnats and some other little worm that I forgot the name of. ~~~
... One of the reasons we love RW is it does not provide an environment for bugz 'n wormz. NO FOOD !

My supplier gave me some oasis so I could do a side by side test and evaluate.
.....Everyone has thier own favs and what works for one will not work for all .
............I did not like the oasis at all.....
JMHO.....
Too many seeds rotted,
............ it was too hard to determine if Oasis needed water
............ The dark color of the Oasis ,I found , did not allow the light that many seeds need to germinate (brugs especially)
....and after it was wet it was too 'smushy' to handle w/o damaging the developing embryo/seedling.

as I said .. JMHO,



This message was edited May 5, 2004 12:54 PM

JT & Kell - I'm going to reply when I can, I have the aircon people here today.

This is not on this thread, but do any of you know where I can order Avid online??? I cannot find an outlet near me and I'm having to take my aunt to therapy several times a week and an online supplier really works better for me. I've searched but I don't want to buy the $191.00 size, if you might know of a place on line. SLike

$100 will buy 8 oz. at Rosemania. Just do a search for Rosemania and you will find it. That includes the shipping unless the price has gone up lately. 1/4 tsp. per gallon of water means it goes a long ways.

Shirley, I came thisclose to buying the $170 size, with a kicker in it, but I got the 8oz instead. I'm bad to over do stuff. And, I combined all the suggestions you guys posted and, for better or worse, I planted the seeds. The big seeds were almost too large for the small rockwool cubes, we'll see. My plastic bowl has a top, should i use that or the sticky handy wrap (that's some good stuff) - I assume I should use the handy wrap so that moisture will collect??? Since it's 82 degrees today, I have them in filtered sun, the last thing I want is for it to be hotter inside, OTOH, I don't want them to cook in the sun. I forgot to blow in the tupperware, so I will my first check!!! Thanks to all of you!!!!! SLike

You are so funny Sherry! You are kidding about blowing in the bowl aren't you?

Mine are under lights so do not get steam cooked.

All of my experience with RW was in hydroponics under HID lighting. Those RW slabs had atleast 2 different larvae/worm like things just weaving all over and the room was teaming with fungus gnats. I used to have photo's of a buddies growroom where he was using the RW slabs as his media. Oh it makes my skin crawl just remembering those nasty critters. You guys must not be keeping the RW around long enough for this to happen.I could see it being great just for starting seeds. I've never considered starting seeds in any cubes!LOL I saw Kell's pictures of her Datura's in RW, do you keep them in cubes until you see roots?

Scooter your point about there being no food in the RW to attract bugs. I wonder if these bugs I'm talking about fed on algae growing on the slabs or the plant's root's? Now that I think about it, 1 of the pests did do root damage, I sure wished I was in contact with this guy and the photo's I mentioned. You all would freak out. I've read and been told that seeds need no light to sprout at all. I know alot of people that germ. seeds in a dark, warm and moist enviroment. ie. Paper towels in ziplock bags.
Why do you guys use RW for seeds rather than soil or rapidrooters? I really like using my own soil mix or rapidrooters because they are just full of all the beneficial bacteria and micro organisms that are present in any good soil. I can see how cubes would make handling tiny seedlings much easier. Oasis cubes do make it difficult to tell if they are wet or dry, I don't know why they use that color. I think it's identicle to the floral foam florists use for flower arrangments and theirs is green. That would help alot.
I ONLY use cubes for rooting clones so we're kind of comparing apple and orange's. LOL Man I sure ruffled some RW lover's feather's. PHEW! You guys are passionate about your cubes and I say this with a GIANT grin on my face.

My experience with cloning plant's and RW vs. Oasis is well founded, I did a side by side twice with 2 different plant's each time. But then there are many variables there too. My tap water has a PH of over 8 and around 300ppm.

There are soo many different ways of getting the same great result's and I'm honored/lucky to be a part of this great group. You couldn't get this amount of quality information from 1000 books IMHO. I've learned quite a bit just from this thread today...

WOW Just now I went over to my seed flats under the lights and I found myself wishing I could see exactly where these Datura/ Brug seeds are that haven't germed yet. I have some hybridized Brug seedlings that are very weak, they've popped up about 1 inch and totally stalled out wearing there seed shells. I also had some very high hopes for some Double yellow Datura's that won't do anything. I've never had germ rates this low with anything, maybe they just need more time. we'll see.
Thanks, Jeff

I didn't read the former posts real carefully, but I would just like to say, that this is my first experience with RW...and I had zucchini and stringbean seeds planted in it. When I opened it up...out flew gnats!

Rockwool is used to grow pot, grass, weed, 'gage'. It is supposed to be the best, I never heard anything about bugs being in it, but I suppose the source of purchase might be subject, if it is not steril, there might be bugs, etc. Is there a way to sterilize it prior to use?????

Jeff posted: Man I sure ruffled some RW lover's feather's.

Oh, I don't think so Jeff, not mine, for sure, just typical differences of opinions. If I was't into law enforcement, I never would have heard of rockwool. As it is, I hear it is the best! You cannot imagine how surprised I was to hear of it here, whew!!!

This message was edited May 5, 2004 8:07 PM

This message was edited May 5, 2004 8:59 PM

What I do is wet my rockwool with Gnatrol. No gnats or worms. Seeds germinate just fine and cuttings root okay too. I had some gnats in the rapid rooters and they laid eggs, but the hatch didn't happen until after my MG seeds germinated and they are doing well. I forgot to water them with the gnatrol because they were moist when I opened the package. Next time!!

Thanks so much Shirley!!!! I'm such a newbie that I assumed that it was required by who ever that all parasites, gnats, etc, would be removed from products. I should have known. Okay, I have learned, yet another, lesson!!! Nothing worth wild is easy and I don't have a clue why I thought brugs would be, ya know, LOL!!!!!! SLike

Okay, I'm going to add my two cents here, for what its worth. I started 100+ brug seedlings in RW. Its great, and I love it! I used the pre-soak to adjust the ph. I have some banana seeds that I sowed in January that are still in the RW, in a tupperware container, in a sealed zipper bag on a bench in the GH. They have sporadically germinated and as they do I remove and plant the individual seedlings. I did not have any bug problems with the RW. NONE... I also used a soiless seed starting mix for certain seeds and had good success with it, but also did have a few losses due to damping off. Like I said, it was just my two cents... Happy evening to you all!!! Gretchen :)

Edited to add: The best thing about it for me was: As soon as a seed sprouted I planted it in a 4" pot in regular potting soil, and replaced it under the lights. Much easier than pricking out seedlings.

This message was edited May 5, 2004 9:30 PM

Gretchen posted: As soon as a seed sprouted I planted it in a 4" pot in regular potting soil, and replaced it under the lights.

Gretchen, was this early in the season??? I'm in 8a and I never considered lights when I planted today. Do you think I should get lights for the seeds????? Thanks!!!! SLike

SherryLike: I started mine indoors in January. Are you starting them indoors? They will probably get leggy in a windowsill, but I haven't tried that so I can't give you a difinitive answer. Brugie taught me how to grow them under lights. I used fluorescent plant grow tubes placed within 2" of the seeds and seedlings. This produced very straight, compact plants with huge leaves. The trunks on them now are between 1 - 3" in diameter depending on the cultivars, and some are now 3' tall, with 2' leaves. If you are growing them outside in the ground, they will probably do fine. Someone that knows more than I will come along and answer this for you, I'm sure.

Gretchen, I didn't count the brug seeds I rooted in rockwool, but I had two flats of canna seedlings that I transplanted that were started in it. I got my leonotis to grow in it and several other things. I love it too.

Brugie: You started the RW revolution here! Thank you!!!

You posted ..........Why do you guys use RW for seeds rather than soil or rapidrooters? I really like using my own soil mix or rapidrooters because they are just full of all the beneficial bacteria and micro organisms.

In the winter a sterile RW cube is good for starting our brug seeds,.......... we do not have professional GH conditions......... A way to avoid fungus gnats ............we grow the seedlings in the cubes as long as they are thriving.......Some with roots crawling up the sides of the containers we use........My en kitchen potting shed for the winter ........a lot cleaner than using soil .........

Ask any of our Nationally recognized Brug Masters ,,,, brug seeds DO need light to germinate.

LOL! I do believe we all can be right about our preferred methods. All it takes is a small variance between people in technique and disaster can strike. I tried Rapid Rooters and it was a sheer disaster for me. I had 2 seeds germinate out of 30 and lots of fungus hit.

I have never had fungus with rockwool and I had gnats just in just one bag out of 100. I am sure one flew in before I closed it then laid eggs. As a rule, no bugs at all! I keep my brugs in rockwool just long enough that they have 2 to 4 sets of leaves.

I say whatever works for you, use it!

Jeff, they were brugmansia seeds not datura and Gretchen, your seedlings sound just awesome!

Kell: They are growing so well (thick, tall and straight with lots of leaves) but unfortunately the bugs are munching on them quite a bit, so they're not very pretty right now. The test though will be when it gets really hot here.

Which bugs? You try to be organic don't you? I was going to say use Bayer tree and shrub systemic! lasts a year and no spray.

I'm posting here because I do not think this is worthy of being a new thread. Something intrigued me today. I have a single trunked tree that is loaded with blossoms and I will send a photo, but I'd like to wait until it is a little further along. What I noticed is that every place there is a bloom and there are at least 25 or 30, the leaf 'in front' of the bloom is oddly shaped, one side of the leaf, right near the stem that connects to the plant, is shorter than the other side, on each and every one of the blossoms. Is this because of the kind of brug it is, and of course I have no idea what it is, no tag, and that was a question. What ever, it makes a precious leaf, to go along with the wonderful flowers. So far, this brug yellow and the smell is so-so. But we all enjoy the blossoms...

Sherry, I think this was mentioned in another post lately, but the sub-equal leaves are a sign that the brug is going to set buds. There have been comparison pictures posted in the past, but I don't remember who posted them.

Here is a picture of Monika's showing the sub-equal leaves of the flowering region. http://davesgarden.com/fp.php?pid=26594

This message was edited May 6, 2004 6:47 PM

In a post on In the Greenhouse, monika posted this about asymetrical leaves....

"The leaves of the flowering region are smaller and the leaf halves are asymetrical.
Most hybrids form two or three Y and then continue to grow straight"

Sowbugs, pill bugs, leaf rollers, leaf hoppers, grasshoppers, slugs............ I've always planted a little for the bugs and deer and a lot for me. I've never really minded when they chew here and there (other than the year we had 10000's of grasshoppers!), but the brugs are all looking really ugly! Those little demons are eating me out of brugs quickly! They may be worse because we had a mild winter and very wet spring. I am going to try one more organic remedy, and if it doesn't do the trick, I'm going bite the bullet and try the Bayer. I hate putting chemicals in my soil, but it may be that or lose the brugs, and I don't want that!!! The funny thing is that they aren't bothering the few that are potted. Only the ones in the ground...

Shirley posted: There have been comparison pictures posted in the past,

Well, blow me over Shirley. Now, I must confess that my understudy, Madeline, 9, noticed the difference in the leaves. I'm so embarrassed, I thought they were deformed. I know you master gardners are borded with we newbies. Do NOT say you aren't, becasuse Goldens are my trip, and newbies can be a PITA, I know that as well as you guys do. I'm just happy to have all of you and Madeline here to guide me.

Sherry, I never get bored with new brug lovers or old ones. I looked and looked but couldn't come up with the picture of the two different kinds of leave, but glad you understand what I was trying to say. LOL!! I'm so tired that I'm not sure I'm saying anything right at this moment. Another two weeks and I should have everything under control.

Shirley, you must be working as hard as I am. LOL I don't know if I'm ever going to get caught up. LOL I was almost ready to kill one of my dogs today, she dug all my seedlings (not my Brugs or she would have probably died) out of nine tin foil pans. I was so upset with her. She's trying to hide a rawhide bone. The seedlings look so bad, I doubt they will make it.