How far apart should DIFFERENT morning glories be planted?

Does anyone know how far apart I should plant different species of morning glories to prevent cross pollination from one to the other? I have searched the web, but not found any info about that . .. . I have gathered so many different morning glory seeds this past winter and now I need to figure out where to plant them all! I would like their seeds to stay true to the original. Any ideas? Anyone with experience with this or seen any articles on the subject?

Thanks!!!

Onalee

I read on a post here someplace that you need 100 ft. between varieties of MG and I'd bet sometimes even that wouldn't be enough. LOL!! There is no way I can put that much distance between mine. Maybe I'll come up with something new and unusual from seed with no effort involved on my part.

Get up really early, self-pollinate, and tape the blooms closed to inhibit natural pollination.

:o) Judith

100 ft . . . . wow, that's gonna be a bit of a problem! Has anyone actually had problems with them cross pollinating and changing the seeds for the following year? I wonder how big a problem it really is . . .??

The best I could ever figure, my Star of Yelta crossed with Clarke's Heavenly Blue. They were easily 50 feet apart. The cross was lovely when I grew out the seeds. LOL

I am about to plant MG seeds in my yard to grow up trellis. any planting tips? HOw far in the ground, how much water?

nijoli,
I first soak my seeds 4-5 hours before planting in tepid water. Then I plant them by covering lightly with soil and watering in. I plant mine in the summer when we have rains at least every week, sometimes every day; although, I'm sure they'd like water more frequently (than weekly), they do fine with that.

enjoy!

Onalee

Badseed,

Thanks for the info - I guess I better figure out how to get these pretty far apart, then!

Thanks, again!!

Onalee

I know this thread is kind of old, but I couldn't help but reply to it...

"my Star of Yelta crossed with Clarke's Heavenly Blue. They were easily 50 feet apart."

This couldn't have happened because they're different species--I. purpurea and I. tricolor. If your morning glories were a different color the following year, it was probably because a pollinator visited your flowers and transferred pollen from another set of vines somewhere in the neighborhood.

QB

Well, that's an interesting question. Some plant species (and even genera) will happily hybridize, some won't. Can anyone list which of the morning glory species can be crossed and which can't? Is I. nil a species found in the wild or a garden plant of great age, or something in between? The reason I'm inclined to agree with QB here is that if those two strains crossed easily, we'd all be planting the hybrids by now. Wouldn't we?

Doesn't that happen anyway? I mean a bee or butterfly will go from flower to flower getting pollen all over the place. So wouldn't everything be a hybrid at this point? I was going to plant my SofY and SO'H seeds right next to each other so I can have both blooms intertwined. Never dawned on me that they might cross pollinate! I'm not much into hybridizing so I guess that sort of thing never crosses my mind. :)

The only thing I can think of that can cross with I. nil is I. purpurea. They're very closely related, and have been hybridized to produce the 'Mt. Fuji' series. Planting either I. nil or I. purpurea with other Ipomoeas is totally safe since there's no chance of them cross-pollinating. So, texasgarden, you were right not to plant 'Star of Yelta' (I. purpurea) and 'Scarlet O'Hara' (I. nil) with each other. :-)

This message was edited Feb 8, 2005 8:20 AM

Year before last, I planted all my morning glories on my fence line - not mixed together, but just one right after the other down the fence. This year, I noticed that some of my Star of Yelta blooms were shaped and sized just like my Scarlet stars, which are I. coccinea .. . I pulled off any blooms that were like that, but it made me wonder if these were crossing . . (not good!) the color was definately start of yelta, but the size and shape of scarlet stars!

I definately know that I. Nil's cross easily - how do you know which others will cross with what . .??

Thanks for all the input.

Onalee

Hi Onalee and all,

I received an email from an avid follower of Ipomoea regarding this topic, and he was rather emphatic that different species of Ipomoea do not cross-pollinate/hybridize...I think he said that within species hybridization of cultivars does happen as described in the above postings.

This is an excerpt:

There is ONE natural inter-specific hybrid known and that is between Ipomoea triloba and Ipomoea lacunosa...all other hybrids between different species were the result of a lot of focused effort by highly educated serious botanists,and the total known hybrids is less than 25...


Isn't this a fun group?

Joseph

Interesting !!! I hope that's true .. .I wonder why my yelta's started looking like scarlet stars . .. ??? only some of them - maybe just a coincidence . .??

Onalee

Ok, so does that mean Star of Yelta planted next to Scarlet O'Hara will NOT cross pollinate? I mean, according to this individual? I personally don't care if they do, but I don't want to save seeds and then pass them on to someone else without knowing that it has been crossed. I just don't follow the latin/botanical names of plants so I don't know which MG is which from an "I.this and that" perspective. I am now afraid that omission puts me at risk for losing my gardener card. Ha! :)

Jamie

Don't shoot me I'm just the messenger/piano man LOL!

Oh Joesph- I'm not upset over it... really! I just want to toss out my MG seeds and wanted the purty scarlet ones with the purty blue ones. Since that is my version of giving a botanical name! Ha! According to the person you quoted, it seems the answer would be "yes, plant them. They won't cross pollinate." To be honest, I would find a debate on the issue boring... I would just want a "yes" or "no" to the question. Of course that means some people would say yes, others would say no, then they would start a huge fight/debate. I did that once on my gardening club website by asking if Spider Lily and Naked Lady were the same thing. Good grief the drama that followed! I always feel like I'm not a "real" gardener b/c I don't get into the botany of it. I also don't get when someone says something is pink, then somene else says no, it's more of a salmon. Or "this plant has a slightly darker pink on the edging than this one." I'm like, "yeah, it's a really pretty pink flower." Done! Ha!

Jamie

I had the same question.
Thanks for the good information. I am just getting very interested in MG's.
Last summer I put alba & tricocharpa on my fence & I really enjoyed them.
Now, I want almost all the kinds I can get!

I just got half way through the PlantFiles vine category looking for ones I liked by choosing Vines & color in the advanced search.

OH MY!

My want list is soooooooooo long now. And I'm not even done looking!
Still got to look through Violet on down.

Addicted? Who said that?
Not me? You?

Okay, ya'll, I've been duly corrected on a point...

The crosses that Dr.Yoneda achieved... [when he crossed] these species [to create the 'Mt. Fuji series], were achieved only after very focused and exacting hand pollination methods. There are very few Ipomoea species that are known to cross in the wild. Ipomoea x leucantha is a cross of Ipomoea cordatotriloba and Ipomoea lacunosa. Ipomoea x peruviana is still debatable...All other crosses have been the result of focused hand pollination by very serious professionals woking for large agricultural univesity and/or research facilities."

SOOOO...you CAN plant your I. nil and I. purpurea together without any real worry about them crossing. I apologize for any confusion I've caused on this point.

Question:
So does that mean if you plant different colors of I. nil near each other that they would likely cross and you would not have the same individual kinds as you started with?

As long as you plant different species in the Ipomoea genus you will get true seeds?

Sorry for being so dense. I was thinking if you want to collect seeds to share, it would be nice to be able to be accurate in what kind they are.

Prism,

That's my understanding now. Have to be careful planting the Japanese morning glories I guess.

Joseph

Thank you Joseph,
That is good to know.
I guess they might be pretty even if they did cross. As long as you didn't trade them as the named ones, I guess you would be okay.

It is very interesting.
I didn't have a clue. I'm learning so much.
Prism

I definately understand that I. nil cross VERY, VERY EASILY - This is from Larry Smith, which some of you may know does a lot of work with MG's . .. so, if you want the seeds true, you have to keep them apart, . .. and we come back to my original question - how far apart . .??

hmmmm .. . twilight zone music needs to play now LOL!

Onalee

This is beginning to appear like we're in the 8th circle of heck in Dante's Inferno LOL!! Aieeeeee

Y'all want dense? Here goes-

So, Star of Yelta. What is it? Ipomoea? What about Scarlette O'Hara? And I'm with Onalee- I still don't know the answer to the question... hers or mine actually. :) If I plant both seeds in the same area on my fence and let them intertwine, will the seeds I get off each vine be true or will they/can they cross pollinate?

texasgarden,

Star of Yelta has the botanical name of Ipomoea purpurea. See this link for the particulars: http://davesgarden.com/pf/go/51638/

I think Grandpa Ott's mg is also Ipomoea purpurea.

Scarlett O'Hara, however, is Ipomoea nil; see this link: http://davesgarden.com/pf/go/74///

It appears that many if not all Japanese morning glory cultivars are Ipomoea nil too. http://davesgarden.com/pf/b/Convolvulaceae/Ipomoea/nil/

So Star of Yelta would cross with Grandpa Ott's, but not Scarlett O'Hara. OTOH, Scarlett O'Hara would readily cross with the JMGs.

That's how I interpret our discussion. As to how far apart they need to be, I can't really say... (sigh)

Joseph

Okay...I'll try to clarify this...

1. If you plant 'Star of Yelta'(=Ipomoea purpurea) with 'Scarlett O'Hara' (=Ipomoea nil), it is highly unlikely they will cross-pollinate. Chances are that your seeds will produce true next year.

2. If you plant vines of the same species, even if they are different colors, they are highly likely to cross-pollinate. Your seeds will most likely produce flowers that are somewhere in the middle of both. If, for example, you were to plant two kinds of Japanese morning glories with, or next to each other, you'll probably end up with a different color next year for each set of seeds.

What's really important to know is what kind of Ipomoea your seeds are before you plant them, so you won't end up planting two of the same kind together. I've seen more times than I can count seeds that are sold under the wrong species name, so it helps to familiarize yourself with what the seeds for each species look like. The four most commonly sold and grown as ornamentals are I. nil, I. purpurea, I. tricolor, and I. alba. Each has it's own particular shape, size and color. I'll try to post photos of each so everyone will know what I'm talking about.

As for space between each, I don't know that bit of information, but I do know that it helps to plant a different kind of species between ones of the same. As the bees, bugs, or whatever transfer from flower to flower, they deposit the pollen on flowers. The flowers react by neutralizing the foreign pollen, thereby lessening the chance of transfer to like species. I was told that this could also affect the vines as a decrease in fertility (basically from reactions to the foreign pollen on individual flowers), but it may not be all that noticeable, I guess depending on how many vines you're growing.

Anything else that needs clarification? I'll try to find out about the planting distances.

Stacey

Ah, Joseph, you beat me to it, with a simpler explanation. Sorry for repeating the information...



This message was edited Feb 8, 2005 9:34 PM

Stacey,

I liked your groovy verbs too. Thanks!

Joseph

I guess the answer is - there is no answer - as far as a bee can fly, probably! I've asked this question to a couple of MG 'experts' and never got an answer - they simply ignored the question .. . probably because there is no answer. .

I think that I will plant a morning glory, then a butterfly pea vine, then a morning glory then .. .i don't know - I must have more vines here . .etc.

By the way, Jamie - if you plant two different kinds of morning glories twining together, you will very likely NOT be able to tell the seeds apart and will forever have mixed seeds . .. which isn't a bad thing - but may not be what you want.. . . I had some volunteer crimson rambler in with my star of yelta - absolutely no way to tell those seed pods apart .. .


Thanks to everyone for the lively discussion!! :-)

Onalee

LOL Woohoo, my verbs are "groovy"! LOL

*blushing* Gee, I've never been told that before!

Scandalous, QB, oy!

LOL I didn't mean it THAT way! Sheesh...

This is so interesting.

So, if I have the inclination to go out & hand pollinate the flowers, then would I get true seeds?

Is it kind of like, if you're pregnant, you can't get pregnant while you already are?

So many questions.

I want to try dozens of different kinds on my fence!

I would think that if you hand pollinate, your chances of having true seed are increased, yes, but that wouldn't really be necessary if you only have the one kind. I've been told the practice of pinching closed some flowers before any pollinators can really get to them has been successful, but I never had any luck with that. I would always mark the stem loosely with a little piece of string or yarn so I'd know which one I'd worked with. Morning glories can (and will) self-pollinate, so pinching the flower closed is great insurance that you'll get true seed. I'm going to work with this method some this year to see if I do any better with it. In not working for me, I mean that the pods never formed.

QueenB, that's a good idea to pinch them closed.
I thought noxiousweed was kidding when saying "tape the bloom closed".
What do you close them with, anything?

And an especially good idea to mark the ones you work with. I hadn't thought of that. LOL

This past year was my first with MG's (I. alba & I. trichocarpa), and I had hundreds of pods. I picked them off before it got cold but they hadn't dried yet. I put them in a pot and forgot them. They got wet & rotted. : (

Live & learn.

Prism,

Were the pods green when you picked them? I have found it best to let the pods dry to a paper texture on the vine, then you can pick them because they're ripe.

Joseph

Onalee- For my own purposes, I just sort of shake my vines now and then through out the season and let them do what they will. Hopefully, based on this discussion, I will get "true" SofY and SO'H vines the next year too. For trading purposes, I just mark a few blooms, as described above, and when the seed pod forms where that bloom is, I know what I have! I just use that green florist tape and randomly pick a few to tag. I had some blue unknown morning glory growing with another flowering vine that I have NO CLUE what it is (probably a weed- ha!). I marked those and it worked fine. Especially if you just want a few seeds to trade and not tons and tons and tons. Also, Any I don't tag can go in a "mixed" packet to trade. I'm sure there are others who wouldn't mind some Yelta and Scarlett growing together! :)

Thanks y'all for the simplified, "explain it to the blonde" descriptions! I think I get it now. LOL!

Jamie

QB- just read your MG seed picture thread. Great job! I just wanted to add another thought I had based on the info you provided. That would be that I have always planted MGs (just whatever seeds were around) with Moonflower and never thought twice about cross pollinating. It's just never been an issue. I guess that's why I wasn't even thinking twice about planting SofY and SO'H seeds together. So, just another light bulb moment for me! I didn't get into collecting seeds until this summer, so I never thought about what different seeds look like. I just let stuff self sow and leave it alone. Now that I am testing the seed swap waters, I am paranoid about giving people bad or mislabled stuff! But you gave great pics and explanations. Especially for someone like me whose eyes glaze over when I see a long post with a bunch of latin names and scientific info. LOL! I don't mean to knock it- I know some people are really into that. It just doesn't hold my interest. On the downside, my only 2 concerns had been that I would trade seeds from plants that don't come true from seed (like all the new hybrids I ordered) and that I would send a bunch of chaff since I don't trust myself to identify the actual seeds in a seed pod. I think I have a learning disablility in that department. HA! Now I have the added fear of unintentional cross pollination! But thanks again for all the info- it has helped a lot.

J

Just my 2 cents worth...Using the latin name ensures exact identification of a plant...using common names tends to muddy the waters on that issue...that's why it's good to use both when talking about plants.