Here are a few pictures, the Goddess of all things Brug, sweet Monika has confirmed that this is Stanglebrand, what would we do without her kind advice??? I'm so glad we are all learning more about this disease and how to outsmart it!
stangelbrand pics
These rooted well, and they seem healthy otherwise.
I rooted them in clear plastic cups with no drain holes so I could see the soil and roots to help me control my terrible habit of overwatering, so there wasn't any soil contamination from water draining into the trays and being absorbed into other pots...so i'm pretty confident that it's contained to just these few plants. but all of my plants will be getting frequent inspections all summer long just to be on the safe side!
it's not sunken in, it looks icky doesn't it!
Excellent pictures!!Thank god this is something I have not seen.What Brug was this?did I miss that somewhere?
Caren, thanks for posting your pictures. I'm sure they will help others to recognize this disease if it happens to arrive at their home unexpectedly. It happens and I know we are running a little scared right now, but if we all do as Monika suggests, we should be okay.
I'm not the best photographer, I hope these pics are helpful !
Carena,I know you are reeling right now,but I must say,these are the best SB pictures I have seen.
I know I am breathing easier after seeing them,I just hope you are going to be OK.
it's on 3 cuttings. 2 Pink Favorite and one Janet Reno. All my others are doing fine. I wanted to show how it's really distinctive compared to just generalized corkiness or wood beginning to form. I know we all worry about our babies, but i think we will all be just fine if we are aware of what to look for.
I agree Carena and thanks for the photos. I am saving them in my SB file - - just in case so I can compare if anything pops up. I think with common sense there is no need to panic. The first pic i would have overlooked thinking it was just an injury. The rest look bad with that dark ring.
Caren! Thank you Thank You!!! I have to agree, these are amazing pics!
I am really proud of you! I wouldnt have handled it nearly as well as you did!
I have to admit that I was a little freaked for a couple hours after Monika confirmed it, but after checking my other plants and reading more about it I isolated the ones that are sick by sealing them in plastic bags and calmed down. I was going to have a nice little brug sacrifice and funeral this weekend, but now i'm going to call my local extension agency to see if any plant people want to study them.
I want to make sure no one worries themselves sick about it (you worriers know who you are!) and I sure don't want people to be afraid to trade and share cuttings. I received some very nice e-mails and was filled once again with love for all of you!
Sorry about your losses. I sure hope this doesn't start spredding around the country real bad.
The pictures are excellent Carena. When you know, what to look for and what you are dealing with, it is a relief. When it started in my collection, it was like a nightmare for me for two years.
Caren,can I ask if all of those cuttings are ones that I sent to you? If so I really need to let the people that I got those 2 plants from know about this.I got them from 2 different sources and I think they should also check their plants for this.
I talked to the person I got pf from last night. They no longer have the plant but I don't think it was gotten rid of because of stanglebrand. But if that JR came from me I need to contact the person who sent me that plant.
As of my inspection yesterday all of the cuttings look good. No signs of anything like this but I will keep my eyes open and they will alll be routinely inspected at least once a month from now on.
Thanks for the pics. Now at least I have an idea of what I should be looking for.
This is really sad. I am sorry this happened to you, but I am glad you are taking it to someone to look at. Keep us informed of what they say. I don't have PF, and with all the problems it is having I am glad I didn't try to get it. Monika I have never been a big fan of Suaveolons anyway, but do you think if we eliminated these genes from our collections, it would help control this? The only ones I can think of that I have to keep would be Gloria's, and those I will just be very careful with.
David, I sent you the Janet Reno, but I have never seen anything like that on mine. I can't inspect it now because that was one that was in the ground and has been cut down to ground level after frost. I will certainly watch the new growth as it comes up this spring. I think I have some cuttings I took before frost came, I'll go check them out today.
Yes Tracey, that is why Monika does not hybridize with suaveolens genes. They evidently can get SB just from being in close proximity to SB, while other kinds have to be actually infected by an invasive means (like infected pruners, aphids).
David I sent you an e-mail. I'm not sure where it came from, it's on 3 cuttings from two sources, so there's no way for me to know! I just wanted to notify everyone I received cuttings from just in case. I need to re-read Monkia's book, I have lots of questions, like how long it can be dormant in an affected plant before it shows up, can it spread from leaf contact, how it affects the soil in planting beds, do hard winter freezes kill it in the soil, etc.
I have seedlings and new cuttings which have been totally isolated from the others so hopefully I'll still get some blooms this summer. I will keep the others in pots this summer instead of putting them into the ground and keep them well away from the others just in case. If it shows up on any more I will let everyone know because I think it's important that we all learn as much as we can about it.
I checked all of the Janet Reno cuttings I have in the greenhouse, David, and didn't see anything on them either. I'll keep a watch on them.
just a few minutes ago I went back into the gh just to see if I may have overlooked something yesterday. Turns out I did.
This is what I found and it is on whiskers. Here again i'm not sure how this is happening because the mother plant grew and bloomed fine with no sign of disease and when I took all of my cuttings the clippers got dunked for a minimum of 5 minutes in a bleach water solution.
#2
the brown part by my hand is soil reisdue .
This message was edited Feb 26, 2004 4:39 PM
#3
Monika can you tell from these pics if this might be SB? Sorry they are not the best pics in the world but I did my best!
David, it looks much like SB. Dispose the cutting but keep the motherplant and keep a close eye on her.
I have Becca Lynn myself. Besides an unknown yellow colored Multihybrid, she stayed free of it last year while the rest of the yellow US-Multis had it.
Thanks Monika. My mother plant is planted in the ground. This cutting was in a pot with some others.
The way I potted my cuttings this winter was to take a 35 gallon pot and section it off like slices of a pie with string. Only my "POT" pies had 4 slices.
Each section would receive 3 cuttings of a particular brug variety so along with the whiskers that I had to throw out today pride of hanover,jean pasko and a 4th that I don't remember had to go also as they were all in the same pot.
How can this just start to show up now though when none of those plants showed any signs of it during active growth this spring and summer? Had I seen anything like that on any of my plants I would never have shared them with anyone.
I wonder if the cool winter temps and the shorter days might weaken the plants and they become more suceptible to the disease? Making them easier targets in the winter.
David, when you take a closer look at all stems and trunks of your plants, you will notice all kind of scars from injuries, bruises etc, you may have never taken notice off before. SB is known in Germany since 1995 and I have for instance experience by now to differ harmless spots from harmful ones.
Between 1995 - 1997, I lost many hybrids to SB.
Don't know how many of you may have seen my picture of this Rosamond cutting I rec'd. It continued in this deteriorative state until I finally removed the trunk and kept just one cutting that had no brown spots on it.
I have no idea is SB could have been the culprit, but I eliminated every other bug possibility and tried to carefully monitor waterings and very low fertilization so as not to shock it. Also, I have varied it's lighting amounts with no change in the curled leaf structure. The cutting I took just this past week still has the curled leaves which I will continue to monitor.
Here is an interesting question for me. IF, and I am saying ONLY IF, this particular cutting may have had SB, and I removed the infectious piece, do you think the cutting would continue to host the disease?
Here's a picture I had posted when first struggling with this cutting.
Are there brown or black patches on the stem? It looks to me like it's just suffering from the winter blahs... and just needs some warmth and sunshine from mother nature.
I agree with what poppysue has said! You dont need to worry.
Removing the black spot doesnt help at all because it has already spread in the plant.
Deb, I had leaves that curled like that when they were infected with spider mites.
I originally posted this picture on 12/10 --> http://davesgarden.com/t/410869/
If there were mites, aphids or any other bugs (which I do not believe there were), I sprayed the plant with Avid in correct dosing to eliminate that possibility and also reduce potential bug problems with my collection of over wintering brugs. I also varied lighting & fertilization amounts in attempts to improve the plant.
Until this past week, the plant continued to spiral downward in its health. It continued in this deteriorative state until I finally removed the trunk and kept just one cutting that had no brown spots on it. It was much worse than this original photo indicates.
I totally regret not having read about SB and making the potential connection with this. If I had, I would have taken pictures of the trunk to help provide more data. It may have shown you that it has/had a strong influence on the health of the plant. (I may dig the stem out of the trash, but haven’t decided on that yet).
On another thread, I posted the question regarding the infectious nature of SB. As I understand, if my remaining cutting has SB, it will continue to host the disease although it may look clean and healthy. (Poppysue’s input). I have also received other input on potential deficiencies that I will be pursuing in hopes that this cutting does not have SB.
Updates to follow as I continue the saga of this particular Rosamond cutting.
This message was edited Feb 29, 2004 2:54 PM
I remember now. Sorry, Deb, for re-suggesting what had been suggested before. If the cutting has developed some good roots, you can cut it off just below the soil level to let it send up a new shoot from the roots. Then you can examine the new leaves, stems, branches, etc., but you are right that it will continue to have SB if that is indeed what it had to begin with. Let's hope that is not the case. I'll be keeping my fingers crossed for you. Rosamond is a beauty.
Morph, if you are really worried that it has SB... toss it. You can always get another some other time.
I would toss it in a second! no regrets! No matter how you look at it, black spots are not good! LOL
I agree with Kell.I toss anything suspicious without a second thought.I know I have thrown away some good plants but better that than have it spead to others.
I just found one today;0(,it is a KGW,I am not sure where I got the cutting,but it is a dark spot,and I agree with Kell,out it goes.
I got an ugly too!
I do think EVERYONE needs to check their babies, Leaves can cover a multitude of sins, as I found out.
Edited to add--I recieved this cutting of Day Break in November (for anyone who has gotten cuttings from me).
This message was edited Feb 29, 2004 10:46 PM
Mine looks like a dark bruise,I will get a pic tomorrow when the lights are on,I agree Vi,this was hidden by a leaf also.
OH OH OH DEAR!!!!