I hate to see so many people that I like get so upset again.
I don't know all the legal going on's about the who, what, were and when of links and photos. I only want to ENJOY crossing and growing brugmansia.
My personal feeling is that ABADS is the "Official Recognized Site" and any links to sites can only help the person that owns that site in selling, trading or letting the world know who is the hybridizer / grower is. ( That's like any other Society that is recognized by the International Cultivar Registration Authority does)
I don't care who uses a photo of anything I raise. I am in this for FUN and PLEASURE. I sure as heck don't want to try to get a paten and make $$ lol yea right !
If your brugmansia is listed by ABADS in any way that says to me It has been recognized. with out having to go through the "offical process" that future plants
will have to go through?
I am only a member of ABADS and an "Honorary" member BGI. but would join any group of brugmansia folks. ( don't want to forget Datura) :-)
I would like to see any extra energy put into trying to get the laws changed so OUR wonderful flower is not known as a " invasive weed". and it could happen here in the States. Datura are already banned in some cities.
I have managed to get brug seed into N.Z. and Australia until the "plant police" delivered my last packages. (Datura are removed from any yard they are found in.) But they at least allowed the "offender" to keep the brug seeds. And now it's Africa I am sending seeds to. Even the folks in Brazil were very glad to get "new blood" so the Americans are doing something right. lol
love and peace to all
and as Forest Gump said "That's all I am going to say about that" :-)
Larry
ABADS
I just finished looking at the ABADS site and I wonder if Mrs. Harding by including everyone's pictures and also linking your sites on her site was not making a peace offering to you all. Her site is the first one that comes up on a brugmansia search and what great free advertising for all of you. Most people in the world that will look at her site will know nothing of all this controversy (thank God), but will think how nice all your brugs are and may even visit and join your sites or if you are a store, buy from you. I think she thinks she has actually honored you all by giving you all equal mention and treating your contributions to the brug world with respect and on equal footing with other brug hybridizers. And Tonny, she even linked your site that talks about the "Truth about ABADS" which if I were her I would find very painful to have everyone read. Obviously, you can fault her for not having an open and frank discussion before she did it, but perhaps her reasons are not as nefarious as some seem to believe.
Just think, if she chose to ignore you all, what would that say? I imagine equally sinister motives could be argued.
Thanks Larry and Kell. I hope these statements helps to ease everyones mind. I really hate to see this all happening but I do understand your feelings. I am new to all the varieties of brugs. I want them for their beauty. I have no plans of hybridizing as many of you do. I just want to enjoy them. I thank everyone of you who have been so generous with all the cuttings you have given me. My only problem now is to decide what I am going to be able to plant in the ground, keep in pots and what I will pass on to others. Thanks Everyone 8-)
Oh my God!!!! Kell's Girlie Girl is on the ABADS site. I can't believe it. I am thrilled. I do have a famous brug named after me now. I am so impressed with myself. Quick Cala, please give her a picture to post on that site, please make it a great one.
And I am not making fun of any of you, I really am touched and excited. Touched that Cala named this after me (even if it is not pepto pink- lol) and touched that it is good enough for it to be on a brugmansia site. WOW!!! I can't wait to tell my mother and sister.
Kell, that was the truth about what happened and as I mentioned before, if MS Harding didn`t act the way she did there would never have been such a website. I told her personally in December that I would not longer accept to be associated with their website on account what happened (see article). Anyway she link to the websites and put my name on the new site. BHGA is not only a hybridizers site. It is also a site that try to throw light on frauds in the Brugmansia world and where things can be said straight forward. I also have a problem with the link to my company website. It appear together with LBJ and K-A and I don`t like to be associated with any of these (see Monikas recent posts). I wrote the webmaster yesterday to remove any link and association. I don`t need "free advertizing" from ABADS under such leadership. I work hard for exactly the same goals as Larry, so reg. Ms Harding I don`t understand, why she did it, but her behaviour afterwards told me, what I need to know.
Thanks
Tonny
This message was edited Thursday, Jan 9th 6:48 AM
Larry and Kell, it's the STEALTH factor. they apparently scanned the internet, did not contact anyone for approval, and listed their brugs with inactive links.
Pink Floyd is another story. An insider had to tell VH that one as it is not in the data base, and another i named for Eric is not listed as it is not in the data bases either.
I should have the right not to be associated with her.
I am also curious as to how Eric will feel when he sees that Cala is selling Amber Rose for 19.95 a rooted cutting, when i sold Amber Rose for him for $2.00 a cutting.
I will be setting up my store, and a portion of what i make will go to the hybridizer when the money is received. This i thought was a major intent of BGI when we started talking about it a year ago.
This is really sad. i cannot say i am even surprised, those of us exposed to VH last year knew we could expect anything from her.
and sadly, i hear the snickers of some of those reading this, and feel very sad for the most serious hybridizers, Monika, Kyle, Ludger, Tonny, and our own very dear Eric.
This message was edited Thursday, Jan 9th 6:58 AM
Arlene, I love that you will practice the idea of a return to the hybridizer, then we will be two in this. *lol* Lene and I will do exactly the same by the start of the season. As for Eric we must wait and see. If the price is high and there is no return I would say: Oh, ripped off again and Okay, the same old story. Its not about the money, its about respect for the many hours of care and hopes layed in the creation.
Tonny, this was our goal last year when you came up with the idea of a brug group, and in my own silly moral view this is what should be done. so send me your cuttings!!lol, just kidding.
i am still laughing at JT's hybrid, which is listed as being a cross of Dr Suess and Arlene's frosty pink, lol... does that mean i get credit for creasing frosty pink? what a riot.
Thank you Arlene,
your words are great!!!
((HUGS))
Ludger
Ludger, big hugs back to you across the pond! I am very glad you kept hybridizing information to yourself! and am waiting to see the best pics!
Yes Arlene
mee too.
And always we have our " privates "..mails...lol lol
GL
I think in general ABADS and whom ever was in charge of the site should have asked everyone for "WRITTEN PERMISSION". In every website building book I've read there is info about copyright infringement. It could have just been a mistake or not I don't know enough about VH. I don't know how long the new site has been up but if anything good comes out of it some people may be mor famous now. Arlene, Ludger, Eric, and Monikas can I have your autograph and a piece of your clothing or hair....grin And where is Bruno has anybody emailed him? Arlene did you get my email?
This message was edited Thursday, Jan 9th 9:37 AM
Desert-r,
do you want to make voodoo with us? lol.
As soon as my first double orange seedling will flower I will mail a picture from this flower with a autograph to you.
Will use the snalemail...lol lol lol
GL
Ah Ludger my heart is pounding! I'm so excited I can't wait! I'll frame it and sleep with it under my pillow....grin
Sprouted 3 days ago
you will have to wait some...grin
Here`s wishing you luck with your new sprouts, Ludger. Isn`t this just a great time of the year when all the new come up? *lol* Growing them large and all the time wondering, what they will be like in bloom? I would like to compare it to creek fishing, because of this kind of fishing takes lots of patience, but I no of no fisherman, that had patience to cast out the bait and then wait for a year or more for the salmon to bite. *lol*
I do feel it was wrong for them to use picture links in there site without permission,I would have been a professional courtesy to ask permission
I also feel that you should be flattered that you would be credited with the hybrids you created on a site for the whole world to see,they have been accepted as yours and you have been honored.
As for the info on what went into the crosses
We all know that when you make crosses ,even the same exact cross,you don't always come out with something special,and most end up as compost.Odds are even if someone makes the exact cross as you ,they are NOT going to come up with a duplicate of your hybrid.And say they do,well yours is already pictured ,and a duplicate will not be accepted or named.
If we are to get more people interested and growing brugs this info should not be kept in secret.
the way I see it you all are getting credit where credit s due.They may have gone about it the wrong way,but I wish I had one listed with my name.........
I aggree CC.
Everyone seems to have an opinion.....personally, I don't think VH should be praised for doing something wrong....oh well.
Enjoyed reading everyones posts. There is some good and some bad, in what has happened.
Um, guys, everyone seems convinced that VH has a mole here, feeding her info, because she was banned. It wouldn't be too hard for her to join again, using another name. You make a new e-mail address, send a friend or relative's physical address, and mail in a money order to pay for it. I guess I could register my dog, if I wanted to.
Hi, I'm Jake. I'm an almost 4 year old german shepherd, and I love plants!
Hi Jake
me is Duke
LOLOL!!! Ludger, he is so cute.
Ludger--you make me laught. Snickers says hello to Duke.
Hi, Duke! Hi, Snickers!
Well, Nick is not sure he likes all these big dogs at all!!!
Oh...........there he goes under the bed..................
I was here when VH was banned from DG and the trouble that was caused in the short time she was here was unbelievable.If I thought for one minute that posting our crosses and names was done as a peace offering then I would be honored. Unfortunately I don't think this is the case.
We started BGI to try to keep some control of our Brugmansias. We didn't want to have a group of strangers growing our seeds and then deciding if they were worthy of naming or should be destroyed.We started BGI to keep our new and older hybrids in one place that gave us some control over what happens to the plants that we put so much time, effort and love into.
VH was well aware of our feelings and of BGI and to post information of the BGI's officers and members Brugmansias along with their names on a site that she knew we did not want to be a part of was not done as a peace offering or she would have asked permission to do so. In my opinion it was done to cause more trouble when things were going smoothly, and to cause a rift between members and mistrust in the Brug world. I sincerely hope that she does not get her wish. JMHO
Snow,
she never will get...
I am shure: Davers together with BGI will become better and better because we trust each other.
Next months or máy be years the better flowering brugs will show it.
Now back to my seedlingsbed. Today eaxch hour there have been new babies sprouted. It´s a good sign.
All this babies belong to Daves and BGI.
GL
I can't stay long as I am supposed to be in class right now, but all I can say is that I am in this to see new improved hybrids. I love Brugmansia and I dream of seeing many new improvements as each of us works toward our own goals. I don't mind if anyone sells any of my hybrids as it is an honor to me that someone would even think they might be worth hybridizing with or to simply enjoy for their beauty. I try to hybridize for first year bloomers that are vigorous and easy to root. Monika and other hybridizers here have shown me that goal is simply not enough. I look forward to seeing some trully outstanding hybrids from everyone here as well as from the other groups. I don't know whats going on all that much as I don't get in to see or hear as much as I used to, but I would like to see everyone enjoying Brugmansia hybridizing or simply just growing them. I continue to learn from everyone here and I hope that the knowledge we have all shared will go on to help others.
Sincerely,
Eric
Get a grip!!!
"eyes"
got one eyes, do you?
I have got to get a kitty, my seeds are not "hatching"!!!!!
*lol* Hibiscus :)
Tiger would probably tear them all down on the floor. Good these weren`t sowed. We had them in small ziplock bags prior to sowing and the cat loved to sleep in the box *lol* Every time we change something or put a new thing into the house, the cats come to sleep on them *lol
Murph wants to say Hi too to jake,duke,snickers,nick and terry
Peanut wants to play
oh gross tonny! a real rat race! (they are rats aren't they, i can't make myself enlarge it).....lol. when i get time i'll post a pic of my critters, lol.