Would the double peach versicolor(fron Native Habitat) crossed with Ecuador Pink be the combination?Or is that just too easy? Sorry,I forgot,then cross those seedlings to butterfly?
This message was edited Friday, Feb 8th 11:51 AM
parentage
CC, gonna start you some babies rooting this weekend.....
I love you Arlene!!!I smell doubles!!!!!
I believe peach versicolor may not be the best one to use for a pollen bearer if you want one in color...I maybe wrong, but I would use the Ecuador pink, Dr.D, or Amber Rose depending on whether you wanted peachs or pinks. Perhaps Monika will step in though and give a bit more guidance. I say this as Dr.D and Amber Rose are created from hybrids that were both in color. On the other hand I have heard that peach versicolor throws out white seedlings. I have not hybridized with this hybrid so perhaps Kyle or someone else who has will step forward.
This message was edited Friday, Feb 8th 3:04 PM
I will try to answer all your questions. Only in a cross between aurea x versicolor can be plants with double flowers but there is no guarantee. For this reason I recommend to use a already available double instaed trying to breed one. The pollen bearer should have the wanted color. If you are lucky there might be colored singles and doubles in that batch, if not, pick out the doubles and cross them again with a pink pollen bearer.
I have two own double strains. One lineage carries only Pink, the other only Orange. I use these strains now to improve the colored doubles. That might be larger flowers; more flowers, longer lasting flowers and and and...... Any good double is good for the start. Make a cross with EP, pick out the doubles and breed them back to EP. You can use Amber Rose as a Pollen bearer but the mother plant must be a double. Pick the doubles out of this cross and breed them again to EP. This is the breeding pattern I would follow. - The B. suaveolens genes seem to be stronger as those of versicolor. It is not easy to 'hit' the hidden
versicolor - genes in a multihybrid. Using Rosabelle or Butterfly will be successful in obtaining doubles, either aureas or candidas, when the motherplant is a double. When using the peach colored double, you might get color. Butterfly and Rosabelle are Rothkirch x B. x candida Ocre kids. - I have one!! seedling from last year. The mother plant was S1, a crippled double (flore plena Tiara x Rosamond), the pollen bearer Rosabelle. The seedling will bloom this year and I am anxious to see whats coming . I think you will have a good start with the peach double.
So, in a word, Candida species x Frosty pink would not create a double pink easily as it has too much suaveolens in its genes.
Brugman, Take your candida species x ecaudor pink to start, then pick out the double seedlings ( plants when they bloom) and cross those back again to ecuador pink. That should give you the basic double pink. Then cross it to Rothkirch or Butterfly or Rosabelle to improve on the colour/ appearance. Have I understood this correctly, Monika?
Our Pink Lady, CC has donated doubles to brugman....double peach and creamsickle which i would love to see pics of! he will be getting this plants in a couple of weeks at least by March 1 when the growing season should really start. John Travolta and pink ladies, boy am i excited!
Monica you are a dream, so happy you are here!!!!!
candida x Frosty Pink will not produce doubles nor candida species with EP. - Yes crazy, this is correct. You have to make the base first. But if you have a chance to obtain a good candida flore plena from somebody, cross her with EP. Remember the double must always be the mother plant. Maybe you are lucky a have a double pink in the first batch. If not proceed as described above.
Monika,
I'm following these crosses very closely and making notes. If I am correct and wanted to try for a pink variegata double, I would start with a variegata and then cross with the color that I want. Sow those seeds and pick out only the variegated seedlings to continue. Cross the variegated plants with a pink pollen donor again.
If I wanted a double variegated I would do essenstially the same thing except use the double as the pollen donor. Do I understand you correctly?
If I wanted a shredded variegated the same would apply, right?
Joydie
the mother plant (the one that delievers the seed pods) must always be a double. The father plant ( delievers the pollen for pollination) does not have to be double but should be a) aurea or aurea Multihybrid, candida or versicolor. The mother plant (delievers the seed pods) is always named first ( flore plena candida Charleston x Ecuador Pink.) This is important to know.
Seeds of variegated plants seldom produce variegated offspring. Variegation is caused by )Mutation or ) a mikro-organism, sometimes a Virus.
So Monika... you think the best double to work with is Charleston? Anyone know where we can get that one? I think I've only seen it on the foriegn sites.
poppysue, I had it on my want list but after the Phyto news I threw my list away. My brain is on LOA and I can't remember who sold it.
Monika,
Thank you for the information. I have that in my notes now. I'm so greatful that you are as kind as to share your knowledge so freely with the group.
Joydie
Its loaded under: Ch. x L'A seedling
I'm bringing this back up because although long, it is one of the very best threads we've ever had on this forum. So much to learn, so little time.
Monika, how did all those crosses come out that you mentioned on February 6?
They came out in many large plants, some are over 3m tall.
Several have small or larger buds.It seems to take an eternity for them to grow and open. It becomes very exiting over here.
The most important seed pod, Rosa Zauber x EP, fell off. The seeds didnt germinate.
Two seedlings of the candida flore plena x Carmencita cross flowered already. One has beautiful shaped single and double flowers, the second had singles in its first flush, now the second is coming. All were whites. They flowered in versi-habit, many buds opened all at one.
So how many flushes of blooms should we go through before they become their final color and shape?
I was wondering what Liz asked.
They will stay white Liz. mother x candida plena was white, color of parents unknown, father (or Pollinator) Carmencita is out of a >Charleston x Rothkirch cross. I made it to see, what type of flowers this cross would bring. Important to me is the Carmencita x EP cross. But I am afraid, most of them must overwinter again.
Awesome reading ~~ tons of information
Thanks for bringing this up Liz, I wasn't at Dave's when this thread came up. Thank you Monika for being so helpful.
bumping for newbies and those who missed them before.
Thanks for bumping up .
I have 2 books on Brugs there must be more out there but I don't know there names .
There are only the 2 books, so far that I am aware of.
This is such a wealth of information. I am a sponge!
I tried to post several times last nite - but couldn't get in --
The 2 books I have are
Brugmansia and Datura
and
Engelstrompeten -- with english translation .
There are a few listed on amazon - but are out of print and mostly just papers college students have written . You have to look under "Liliaceae" and go thru about 1000 books -papers that are out of print / unavailable .
I have between 50 to 75 books on plants , propagation , bugs , medical plants , herbs - mostly english but a few Spanish and German . Most just have a line , paragrafh - maybe a picture .
I am a sucker for bargain bin books and used books . Most don't know the difference between Brugmansia and Datura and Iochromas and sanguinea .
I have learned more since I found Daves .
I only knew of 5 - a single white , double wite , yellow and 2 frosted pinks .I was proud that I had 4 of the 5 . Right now I have between 20 to 25 different ones with extra's of 4 or 5 .
Engelstrompeten -- with english translation I believe was written by Monica, the lady that started this thread. I have that book and found it very helpful.
*bump*
I would like to add the information, that one seedling out of the Carmencita x EP cross mentioned above was named Carmela and pollinated with Rubirosa became the mother of the double Pinks Carousel, Cathinka and Susie Underhill. All three were grown out of the seeds I had send to the US.
Susie Underhill has very large flowers. They have a length of almost 40cm.
This message was edited Jul 16, 2009 10:44 PM
Let me add to Monika's post, i am fortunate to have all three of those Beauties, Carousel a triple, Cathinka dbl and triple and Susie Underhill dbl, all are doing well even in Florida.
Of the two blooms, which is the older one? I love the darker inner skirt on the left handed bloom!!!
They always seem to have the darker inner skirt on Susie Underhill, it was just not so visible on the right bloom as she turned her blossom the other way.
She is a beauty,love the dark pink.
Monika, congratulations on obtaining such outstanding seedlings from your cross of Carmencita x EP.
B--- Susie Underhill has exception blossoms and tendrils. Lucky you! Glad to hear she and siblings do well in Florida! ~Brenda B
Monica
those Blooms are amazing, the length of the Bloom & that Georgeous color, Congratulation on a great cross
Elizabeth
Monika, thank you for the Brugmansia & Datura books in English & German, they have helped in many ways,
The flowers you produce over the last few decaides are AMAZZING, and is there any way of getting some seed from you versicolor range that would improve the breeding stock here in Australia
thanks you again will follow this post & any other post that i find
Shaun
Shaun, thank you for the kind words about the books and my hybrids. :-)
Once in a while I do have seeds left to share with seriously interested Brugmansia friends in oversea, but not each year, because the success of pollination depends here much on the weather in the climate zone I live in.
Are any of these plants,or cuttings available.
I too enjoy your books.