Check out the future of GardenWeb Posting

This message was edited Jul 19, 2005 9:15 PM

Wow... That's the best thing Spike could do to ensure the continued growth of Dave's Garden.

Thanks GardenWeb!!

Dave

Given Spike's arrogance, this was only a matter of time.

I was amuzed as the suggestion that gardenwebbers post info on the site on other lists and forums they're involved with. Considering that one of Spike's many no-nos is....

Why would people pay when they could come here for free? I went there before I found out this site existed. I went in, signed up, was not impressed, and left, never to return. I like something simple and straight forward (like here). And I don't pay to visit web-sites. Do the people there think it is the only place to get information? Is it better (other than Spike) and I just don't know it? Guess it just doesn't serve my needs.

Hey, Hortisexual, are we talking about the same GardenWeb?

The reasons you list for staying are good ones. Except those are the very things that Spike would bump you for. So long as those diverse opnions, personal philosophies and eclectic ideologies are in 100% agreement with Spike's, then you can express them. Otherwise, it's off to disney.com

Gardenweb will die soon.

Four people have asked me for the address of Dave's Garden after reading the posts on that thread. Perhaps you could offer Spike a couple of $ to stick it up on the Seed Exchange to save me the trouble?

look at all those people licking his ... can I say it here? starts with a and ends in s and it's a 3 letter word.

what of those people who get kicked out? the banned list goes up fast and he keep the money.

or am I being nasty?

Mark
Northern Ireland - recently banned

I don't know how to put this but here it goes...
I really like the GW. I don't like the webmaster's attitude. My favorite site is Dave's Garden(DG). That said I would like to see Dave's response to these questions:

1) What plans if any do you have to increase the number of forums? Or do we even need to increase the number?
2) If the GW does go under do you have any plans to handle the influx of people from GW? Do you even want all of them and their forums?
3) How are you trying to find more members? Other than by word of mouth.
3b/4) Are you trying to get this site listed on all of the search engines? where does that stand? I am concerned that without GW we will have a hard time finding new members.
5) If the GW can't handle the cost how will you? Do you have any plans? BTW I have a super idea that I have been thinking about sharing with you personally that would improve the site and raise some money for you.
6) To be blunt I think that you are SUPER DUPER helpful!!! I hope you stay that way.....
7) What else do you have in the plans?

Wow, lots of great questions. Here are my answers:

1) What plans if any do you have to increase the number of forums? Or do we even need to increase the number?

We started with no forums. In October, I introduced a general forum so that the small membership (30 members, at the time) could discuss things in general, and Dave's Garden in specific. Demand for an actual general discussion forum led me to create a special forum for discussing the site. As I watched the traffic on the general discussion forum, I found that a lot of people were starting to trade stuff there, so I create a trading forum. I then noticed lots of requests for gardening advice cropping up on the general discussion forum, so I created the Garden Talk forum. And so forth, and so on.

The answer to your question is: Yes, I have plants to increase the number of forums. As the need for a new forum arises, it will be created - but not before. I won't create forums just so we can have a large number of them, but I will create them if people express a desire and need for them. This has always been my litmus test for the creation of new forums. (I wrote the word 'forum' 12 times in those two paragraphs) :)

2) If the GW does go under do you have any plans to handle the influx of people from GW?


Firstly, the GW is not going to "go under". They have been around for at least half a decade, and I think they will always have somewhat of a following, no matter what bad choices they make. On the other hand, they might simply close their doors and allow their domain name to expire... Either way, Dave's Garden will continue to grow. Do I have plans to handle the influx? Yes. I am experienced in this area. Throughout mid-1997 until late 1999, I built one of the largest computer news sites in the world - "Linux Today". When I sold the site, it had over 5,000,000 (that's million) pageviews, and over 50,000 unique visitors per month. These numbers are staggering, and I single-handledly built the site to support it. I have taken my experience with Linux Today and brought it to my true passion - gardening - with Dave's Garden. The site can continue to grow as large as it wants to, and I'll be behind it making it work.

Do you even want all of them and their forums?

Yes, for the most part. I believe that every single person can make contributions to the collective whole, in either a large way or a small way. There will always be 1 person out of every 10,000 who wants to cause trouble. These I am prepared to deal with with swift and just measures. The other 99.9% of the people will enjoy a community of gardeners, free from spam, profanity, hate, and so on. There will always be new people joining, and many of them will have to be taught the etiquette of Dave's Garden. Once they learn what's appropriate here, they will be contributing members of our society. One thing I've learned: never underestimate anybody, no matter who uneducated they appear at first.

3) How are you trying to find more members? Other than by word of mouth.

I encourage word of mouth wherever possible. I also have the site extensively listed on most major search engines, which I'll describe in the next question. I do not pay for any advertising of the site.

3b/4) Are you trying to get this site listed on all of the search engines? where does that stand?

Let's look at where our visitors have come from over the course of the past 24 hours:

70 hits: Google and Yahoo searches.
31 hits: GardenWeb
10 hits: jb-forums (they're discussing Spike and a link to my site was presented)
4 hits: alltheweb.com (search engine)
4 hits: AOL search
3 hits: Message board on cuc.com
2 hits: Thetotalgardeners website
1 hit: backyardgardener.com seedexchange bulletin board
1 hit: dogpile.com (search engine)
1 hit: search.com
1 hit: lycos.com
1 hit: seed trading forum on boardhost.com
1 hit: ms_dragon's website

I designed the site to make it very attractive for search engines to catalog the whole site quickly and efficiently, producing more traffic (especially from Yahoo and Google).

I am concerned that without GW we will have a hard time finding new members.

In the beginning of Dave's Garden (mid August), this may have been true, but today it's a different story. Most of our new members are coming from other sources, including finding us through searches, being told about us from their friends, and reading about us on other (non-GW) forums.

5) If the GW can't handle the cost how will you? Do you have any plans?

I have low overhead, and don't have any employees to pay. Dave's Garden runs itself, thanks to my genius programming style which made the whole thing so smooth and automated. The only costs associated with Dave's Garden are the charges to my internet service provider, which currently are still only $150. I have experience running and financing large sites, and I'm not at all worried about continuing to pay for DG's existance.

BTW I have a super idea that I have been thinking about sharing with you personally that would improve the site and raise some money for you.

Please E-mail me your thoughts. I want to hear them.

6) To be blunt I think that you are SUPER DUPER helpful!!! I hope you stay that way.....

Blush.

7) What else do you have in the plans?

The overall plan is to make Dave's Garden become THE place for gardeners on the internet. I'll achieve this goal by creating features that solve real problems faced by gardeners. What's on the horizon? The Gardener's Journal is about to enter a beta test. This journal will be your electronic diary throughout the 2001 growing season where you will chronical all activity in your garden. At the end of the year, you'll be able to look back and see what worked, what didn't, where you went wrong, look at pictures from various stages of a plants life, etc, etc.

What else... I am going to re-work the signup process to make it more friendly for new members. Additionally, I'll be constantly tweaking the site in different areas to make it more solid, more pretty, and more friendly. I'll listen to suggestions, and implement most of them. In short, I'll make DG the site that all gardeners in the world will want to have.

By the way, I journal everything I do (for the most part) on DG on the What's New page (look in the menu box).

Happy gardening,
Dave

Dave,

I think that your response says everything I wanted to hear and more!

Thank you
Sari

As for GardenWeb... let's say that I've been banned by Spike several times for such things as telling a fellow forum member that she did a good job rescuing a kitten that she found almost dead, which came originally from a hosta thread and the topic turned to cats somehow. I've been sent to Disney more times than I care to count. I love GardenWeb and the forums and the people, that's what's at the heart of GW, but as for the webmaster, he needs to go find another group of people to bother and be rude to.

If you've been following the thread at GardenWeb in which Spike asks for suggestions on the future of GW, you will notice that he has deleted posts from many people who have commented on the Disney problem and who are generally against what Spike is trying to do, even though he ASKED for suggestions and comments. In my book that's called "hypocrite".

So... that's the reason that I'm a newbie HERE and not THERE. Nuff said... I hope by being this vocal I'm not going to get on all of your bad sides, I'm just speaking from personal experience, and from the experience of about 40 other x-GW members who have all been banned by Spike.

Glad to be a gardener,
Andi

I'd like to add a comment about the number of forums on GardenWeb that some folks over here don't seem to understand.

GardenWeb is strictly a commercial site. It exists so that Spike can make money. Nothing wrong with that, per se. However, most of the forums he creates are done so not because members want them, but because he thinks he can sell advertising on them---either for the specific topic, or because it drives up the number of false-hits he can report to potential advertisers.

Most of his rules and arbitrariness stems from what he sees as denying competition. That's why he doesn't want other commercial web sites mentioned, for instance. If I tell you about X, and you surf over there, then their hits number goes up, and they can better sell ads themselves.

Just one example. He started a little-used forum called Garden Writers. One of the rules is that you cannot discuss markets. Let me tell you, as a freelance writer, that the one piece of information I most want from other writers is information about markets. That's what we live and die on.

However, Spike forbids them because it would subject him to the kind of competitive pressures he can't, or won't, handle.

Throw in his abrasive, arrogant, bloated with self-importance personality, and you have a formula for failure.

if i get the courage, later on, I gonna try and post a negative comment and see what happens

Mark

I used to visit the GardenWeb but have pretty much given up because of Spike's attitude - I once offered to go throw rotten tomatoes at his house because of the way he treated one of my web friends. By the way, Spike Hernandez is NOT his real name.

I was born in Africa, so am a great beleiver in sticking pins in people who annoy you, and putting a HEX on them!!! That's what I did to Spike, I made up a little fabric doll - called it "Spike" and have been jabbing pins in it everyday. Horay it is working!! Couldn't happen to a nicer rag man!

[ Removed by member request. - Admin ]

Yes Dave's Garden is a great site and is has only just begun to ROCK !!! Keep up the good work Dave and show the other elitist garden sites how to operate a web site :)))

[ Removed per member request. - Admin]

I just thought of something

does Spike come here for a look to see what's going on?

should we send him to somewhere else other than Disney?

Mark
Northern Ireland

I have been with GW for about 3 years now.My how time flys when one is having fun. So far I have only been chastised once and thought that wasn't exactly right but went along with it because I thought GW was a little bit better site than Garden Town where I had been for a year or two. Mostly that was because I liked the format better. However I do know of some persons who have been send to disney, banned either temporarily or permentently or at least warned not to talk about some topics. One was a dear lady who I will make an effort to find and tell about this site. She posted the name of someone who had not fulfilled a trade even after several contacts. This lady and I had sucessful trades and I would trade with her anytime. We also email personally for a while before losing contact because we both got really busy. She was allowed back on GW after about 6 months after repeated apologies and promises to never do that again.
I too am mostly a FarmLife Forum lurker/poster. I was so glad to see that one started and will really miss those I came to "know" thru that forum. I have actually met one of them and her DH and hope to meet Patty soon. We all live within 60 miles of each other.
I will be sad if GW closes, but I didn't know it was a commercial site. I do suspect that Judy Z. who was(I think)insturmental in getting That Home Site started is from Garden Town. Don't know why she changed affiliations. Maybe just wanted more involvement with a website.
Anyway, I know about DG now and will check in often to see how things are doing.

I've followed GW off and on for a few years. Didn't really care for the environment there and had pretty bad luck with swaps, too with beginners sending bad seed and lately more wanting something for nothing. Until I read the recent posts in the suggestions forum, I didn't realize GW was a commercial one-man show. The poor-mouthing plea for help was a big turnoff, so glad it led me here!

Mark
I have been banned also( ummmm surprised?) and I go over and post here and there. If its a pleasent post it goes on. If its not and I mention any key word ( Disney Land Micky mouse etc.) Then it dosent go on. I dont get sent to Disney but it never appears. It says that my message has been posted but it never shows up. BTW I have been posting under my sons addy.

HEY DAVE......... You are the newest forbidden key word. Tried to post to tell people to go to Daves garden ( thats all I wrote) and I got sent to Disney!!! I got a couple messages to supposidly post but I doubt they will show up. I had to leave out the first letter of each. Had much fun I have to say!!
LOL Dave.........have you thought "Wow would I get verbally stoned like Spike if things went sour"? LOL. You seem like a nice guy and I hope things go well for you.
This is my new site and it feels soooooo good to just say what I want to and not worry if I have infringed on your opinions if they differ from mine.

I just did a search on GW for any mention of this site on all forums.

not a mention!

Mark

EvaMae you there?
When you emailed about the post were you refering to the post about Disney where Spike was discussing why he does that? I did an awesome post and I am hoping thats what you were refering to. Please let me know.
Jane-Janice