Remember this?

I certainly do and with some misgivings I might add!! Reminds me so much of my old headmistress way back when. She just didn't read poetry at every chance but she made us learn it all my heart. The Ancient Mariner comes to mind!!! She must have had an impact on me no matter how strict she was because I really do love poetry. Anyway, this is pretty appropriate for now, especially for the folks up in Buffalo and Ohio too I think!!

When Icicles Hang By The Wall
William Shakespeare

When icicles hang by the wall,
And Dick the shepherd blows his nail.
And Tom bears logs into the hall,
And milk comes frozen home in pail,
When blood is nipp’d and ways be foul,
Then nightly sings the staring owl,
To-whit!To-who!—a merry note,
While greasy Joan doth keel the pot.

When all aloud the wind doth blow,
And coughing drowns the parson’s saw,
And birds sit brooding in the snow,
And Marian’s nose looks red and raw,
When roasted crabs hiss in the bowl,
Then nightly sings the staring owl,
To-whit! To-who!—a merry note,
While greasy Joan doth keel the pot.

Sounds more like Dickens to me!! Really down to basics!!

I don't recall reading that one by Our Bill, I wonder who Joan was?

Ah yes Baa - wouldn't it be just great to know where the bard found his characters. Certainly smacks of ol England, doesn't it! Alluding to the crabs - near the coast somewhere, perhaps Suffolk!!

What a gritty poem! I love Shakespeare.

I've just been scouring the net to try and find our elusive Greasy Joan, didn't find anything about her except that it might be something to do with wearing goose grease.

I wonder about his characters too, he often gives them descriptive names. I love some of his put downs too, Sonnet 95 is positively vicious LOL.

This is interesting Baa - I found Sonnet 95 hard to interpret and then did some research.

http://www.stockton.edu/~stk10756/meaning.html

Thanks Louisa that is an interesting interpretation. I felt he was writing about someone whom he admired but had a nasty, sharp tongue and he despised that trait, so the interpretation bore that out. I remember as a child often hearing the phrase, 'Your tongue is so sharp you want to take watch you don't cut your throat with it.' Which is similar to the warning last couplet of the sonnet.

Haven't heard that phrase but I'm sure this one has nothing at all to do with Shaky....I'm so hungry, my stomach thinks my throat's been cut"!....lol!! Hey, all those nursery rhymes we learnt and still use today - they too have sinister overtures and most were based on an actual events!! Horrid isn't it!! By the way, I found that link quite fascinating!!

I think the tongue one is a midlands expression. Oh yes my Mother likes to use the stomach saying too LOL.

Talking of nursery rhymes the one which always scared me (and still does) was:

As I was standing upon the stair
I met a man who wasn't there
He wasn't there again today
I wish that man would go away

Do you know that one?

I still like Goosey goosey gander even though I found it was really about Cromwell's troops. Hark hark the dogs do bark and Elsie Marley were others I liked. Can't say I've heard many of the nursery rhymes I knew as a child being used today.

No Baa I don't know that nursery rhyme but you're right, it is scary!! I remember hearing something about Rock a bye Baby that was also pretty awful but can't recall what it was now. Then there's Humpty Dumpty - knew the story behind this one too - but it's all gone - like the ever decreasing grey matter I call a brain...lol!!

You all are amzing!! I remember hearing about all the nursery rhymes hidden meanings when I was younger from my mother- a true librarian... it's not taught anymore in our schools here in the US- such a shame!!! What treasures of information it was!! And so much about history!
-JSS

Is there a link on the nursery rhymes? I've heard several of the meanings, Humpty Dmpty, and ring around the rosey. I'd like to learn more about them...Doris

Doris I'll see what I can find out soon - been pretty hectic here today. Church tomorrow morning and then I'll get to work on this. Jeanne I can't ever remember being taught any nursery rhymes at school. They were just passed on from mother to child and then children to children in the playgrounds of schools. Maybe they are not perpetuated any more because of their origins. Many of which were quite macabre!!

Arrghh

Apologies for previous post :) (I don't care I'm superstitious about some things LOL)

If I may step on Louisa's toes (I was never much good at dancing anyway *G*) I found a site about rhymes and their possible origins. Bearing in mind people interpret what they like into things and that history is just how the last person who wrote about it viewed the situation, its a fun site if not, perhaps, the complete truth.

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/3041/

One I found interesting was Hickory Dickory Dock and similar rhymes like Eeny meeny miny mo being associated with a shepherd's tally. The wool trade was incredibly important to Britain's economy for many centuries and sheep have to be counted, each area had their own strange words used for the purpose which may hark back to the Celtic language of the area. As close as 50 years ago a shepherd in Sussex may have counted thus; wuntherum, twotherum, cockerum, cutherum, shetherum, shatherum, wineberry, wigtail, tarry-diddle, den. Two sheep were counted per word and each Den marked 20 sheep and the tally (a finger or a piece of wood) was marked as 1. Making it possible to count as many sheep as 200 on both hands or a reletively short stick, I've met shepherds who accurately count 5 or 10 at a time for one tally mark, now they really are the experts but I digress!

This message was edited Tuesday, Jan 1st 4:31 PM

Nice work Baa - looked at it briefly but I know it's going to take a while to go through the link and want to check it thoroughly before making any comment. Loved the account about the shepherds - how clever of them!!