Need help from nice folks.

I posted this question at GardenWeb which I new better and I only got rude replys. First let me explain. I am new to gardening and trading so I will have many questions come next year.I have an area about 1400 sq.ft. cleared out and ready to be planted for next years vegetables. I am planting mant different varieties of tomatos, peppers and cucumbers (not sure what else). I wanted to trade some of the seeds but then I heard about cross polination and figured I can't because no one would want them. How can I do this so I can share my seeds if any way possible? Please help me find a way I really want to share.

That I know of, only heirloom or "old fashioned" vegetables have seeds that can be collected and planted. Last year a volunteer plant came up where I had seeds planted. I didn't realize what it was until tomatoes started, and by that time I thought I would give it a chance. Every tomato but perhaps 2 rotted before ripening enough to pick. Other years that this has happened, the plants only produced small tomatoes. I don't think you would want to share vegetable seeds from anything marked "hybrid."

Smiles,
Gabrielle

I am really not trying to be stupid but what you are saying is if my tomatos are heirloom then I can save the seeds. I have yellow and red pear I will plant, this won't be a problem. I get confused when reading all the different information. I was reading that heirlooms are open pollenated and I thought that meant they would cross. Please be patient with me I am the only one in my family that likes to garden so I have to turn to you. Thanks again.

I am not the best one to answer your question, but I will tell you what I know or have been told. If I say something wrong (anybody) feel free to correct me. It depends on what pollinates your plants. Corn is pollinated by the wind, therefore it needs a lot of room between varieties and hybrids have been cross pollinated to get the desired atrributes. Usually they may be second or third generation crosses and you may get any variety of plant that was used as parent. Squash and melons have separate male and female flowers and you can control the pollination by taking off (I think) the male flower and gently taping the female flowers shut and pollinating yourself. A lot more work than I have ever gone through. On tomatoes, we have mostly bought hybrids, but I have had volunteer cherry tomatoes that were better than the store bought this year. Plus I had one plant of yellow pear that volunteered, but I didn't pick any.

Basically leave enough room between your varieties. And know that hybrids are just crosses. Sometimes the offspring are sterile and others, there is no telling what you will get. Hope I didn't cause more confusion than help.

Yes, the heirloom plants you can save seeds from. I think they have pretty much stayed the same for many generations. Maybe I ought to try them sometime. I have always done "Better Boy." Anyone know of any that are similar in taste and texture (is that the right word)?

Smiles,
Gabrielle

You can save the seeds of heirloom and open-pollinated varieties, the ease of doing this depends on the vegetable. Tomatoes are self-pollinated so they usually pollinate their own flowers. For more absolute purity you may separate them by 6 - 15 feet. Peppers self-pollinate but insects can become involved and risk the seed purity. For the purest seed separate varieties 35 - 100 feet. Eggplant self-pollinates but again, it's best to separate varieties 15- 25 feet. Corn is wind pollinated and must be separated by 1/2 mile as does members of the brassica family. Lettuce self-pollinates but for best purity separate 12 feet. Common beans and peas are self pollinating and can be grown side by side for 99% seed purity.
There is a bit more to the technique when saving seeds such as tomato seeds should be fermented, this removes the gel sac and kills seed-bourne tomato diseases. There is a wonderful book called "Seed to Seed" by Suzanne Ashworth published by the Seed Saver's Exchange which I use that may be worthwile for you to purchase.
If you have any further questions don't hesitate to email me. I'm sorry you had rude replies to this question on Gardenweb, I think it's a great one as we all have to start somewhere and asking questions is the first step!

Casey, I have tried finding that book (seed to seed) online before with no luck. Please tell me where to find it. Mick

Okay...Now I'M CONFUSED.Guess I need to buy the book too.Mick,I found it listed in the new Pine Tree Seed 2001 catolog $20.00 list price (www.superseeds.com)
The suns out today!!!
KimC

I have saved seed for so many years that it is second nature to me. If I can help anyone out let me know. I have a library of books that I have collected. I can look up the answer if I don't know it. The main thing to remember is heirloom or open pollinated plants are the ones to save the seed from. Plant spacing is also important to prevent cross pollination. Its to bad that you were treated so rudely on GW.

This would make a good new forum. Or better yet, could you make a page that tells you the specifics of growing each type of plant, like how far apart varieties should be planted, how to save seeds such as tomatoes. We could all contribute info to help others.

This is an excellent thread - thanks everybody for chiming in with your useful information (Especially Casey2!)

I think a forum for this type of discussion is actually just what we need as we begin planning our gardens for the upcoming spring.

Dave

Here are a couple places to buy "Seed to Seed" by Suzanne Ashworth.

$18 at BN.com:
http://shop.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?userid=1OP5P0UPD7&mscssid=RV5DSV03T5PK8NA452Q3DXVGGJJJ05S6&isbn=0961397772

$16 at Amazon.com:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0961397772/qid%3D977072308/106-8967265-4566033

The ISBN number is 0961397772.

I'm ordering it this afternoon. :)

Dave

http://www.anet-chi.com/~manytimes/page52.htm

Thanks Dave for posting the purchasing information for Seed to Seed, it is a great book!

A forum on seed saving techniques and seed starting would be wonderful since so many have special requirements. I look forward to it :)

Some basics.

1 Heirlooms are varieties that have been around over 50 years.

Example. Brandywines about 1850.

All but 1 or 2 heirlooms are OP's

2. There are 3 basic types.

Op Open Polinated, Self or insect.

F1 and F2,

These varities are a cross breeding ~~for disease resistance. However saving seed from an F1 or F2 hybrid rarely produces the parent plant. It typicaly is a stunted weak plant with a few small fruits. These are 99% of the not worth the time and the garden space to grow them.

Cross Breeding

Sometimes plants are cross bred to make a new variety.

IE If you want to make a green Brandywine, Start with a Red and a yellow and cross bred. This may or may not work.
Seeds saved from this cross needs to be grown for 6 generations to prove that the new strain is true.

The simplest method of saving seeds for the home gardener.

For tomatoes, peppers and eggplant, Find a cluster of developing flowers. Just before the first flower starts to open, cover the whole cluster with a small chunk of panty hose.

When the flower is fully open, for about 3 to 5 days, vibrate the branch, several light taps with fingers, electric toothbrush or other portable vibrating tools.

When all of the flowers in that cluster start to form fruit
remove panty hose, once bred you is, and can't be done again.

Mark this cluster, string, garbage bag ties, thin strip of panty hose.

Allow these fruits to go into a slight over ripe stage before picking.

Pick, remove seeds, place seeds in a jar of water. A jar that you can tighten the cover.

About every 12 hours, for 3 days, tighten cover, shake the jar well, lossen cover slightly.

End of day 3 or day 4, Carefully remove cover. Take a spoon and remove anything floating. Any floating seeds are immature and odds of germination or good plant growth are reduced.

Pour rest of contents thru a small strainer and rinse well with cool water.

Dump seeds onto a dish, Start with all seeds on one side.
Underneath that side place a pencil. This is to help drain off excess water.

Allow to sit for 12 hours. Wipe up and excess water with paper towel.

Spread seeds around plate, Ideal is no 2 seeds touching.

Allow to air dry for a week.

Place in paper envelops for storage. ~~ and mark of course.


Soaking kills many pathogens,
air drying reduces possibility of mold and mildew forming
Paper envelops, Seeds are a living oragnism, they too need air.

For other plants, I would like to refer you to "Seed Saving" by Rob Johnston Jr. Owner of Johnnys Seeds.

Price is a whopping $2.95 order from www.johnnyseeds.com

Byron

I want to thank everyone for your help. I think I have decided that for the ones I know are heirlooms like Brandywine I will try to share but everything else I'll eat. My husband doesn't believe any of this about cross pollination so I told him that he can save all the seeds he wants and make his own garden the followning year (away from mine of course). Thanks again everyone.