Red Sunset Maple seeds

My wife and I moved to a lovely neighborhood with Red Sunset Maples trees lining the neighborhood. This summer I noticed saplings growing in our much beds with the same leafs as the Red Sunset Maples. One was 31/2 feet tall. Not wanting to kill any of them I transplanted most to the woods and the large on to a spot that would be appropriate for the eventual size fo a Red Sunset Maple. I was then told on another forum that these cultivars are cloned through root cuttings and the seedlings would revert to a native Red Maple tree. If this is true I will have to also move the large sapling due the increased size of the native Red Maple vs this cultivar. Is this true? I have scoured the internet on growing seeds from Red Sunsets without any luck. Thanks so much

The seed of any plant, even heirlooms or open-pollinated, never come exactly true to the parent plant. That's where genetic diversity comes from. The offspring will be very near to the parents as the parents were very near to each other. Seeds from hybrid and cloned plants will produce plants similar, but not exactly, to one or more of their ancestors.

I thought I would chime in on this because I really like Maples. I would have to say that I tend to agree with DaisyPlantLady. I think your seedlings will likely be very similar to the Red Sunsets. However did you ever notice if there is a common Red Maple (acer rubrum) nearby? If so, they could also pop up in your flower bed, and likely have the same or similar leaves.

Somewhere I read that the fall leaf color is based on genetics. I can attest to that fact from my own personal experience with Red Maple. Some turn beautiful shades of red, while others simply turn yellow or maybe shades of orange. If there are several Red Sunset trees close by, I would think that there would be a significant chance that your little seedlings will produce good leaf color. I would think mature size would be similar to the parent plant.

Thanks so much. I have not noticed any nearby native red maples. There are some in the field about 300 yards away but are most likely from the seeds. We have lots of birds around here. Each house has a Sunset Maple in the front yard and in the spring there are so many seeds it is something to see. I am confused about the clonal propagation. I spoke to the company that developed many Red Maple cultivars including the Sunset and they told me that nurseries mostly propagate via root cuttings. Each Red Sunset is a clone. Now they told me that the original was from a intense growing of thousands of native Red Maples from different parts of the country. From natural selection of certain features they finally found a tree that had those characteristics that we now see with Sunsets. Now many experts have told me that all seedlings from cultivars revert to native maple trees. Others say that like children they will show characteristics of both parents or more of one then the other. If they are cloned from a selected tree then shouldn't they be exactly the same?

You are talking about two different things: Clones and seeds.

A clone is essentially a plant with only one set of genes from one parent - asexial reproduction. All clones have the same genetic makeup. Cuttings, roots or otherwise are clones - they look the same as the parent plant (and have the same genetic makeup). Go back and substitute the word "cutting" for "clone".

To develop the Sunset Maple, a lot of time was spent choosing trees with favorable characteristics. Those trees were crossed with other trees that were promising and eventually, someone developed a tree they liked.

The only way to continue growing that exact tree is to grow new trees from cuttings off the first tree. Somewhere, there's a first Sunset Maple.

Seeds are not clones; they are the result of the mixing of two sets of genes into a new unique individual. The seeds are carrying all those ancestral genetic characteristics - choices have to be made. It's the reason your child may have your eyes and your spouse's nose but really is the spitting image of great grandma Whoever.

Hope this helps.

Daisy

thanks. Just more familiar with mammal genetics not plants, I just assumed seeds from a cloned plant would yield another clone since there is no other genes involved and the cloned plants is developed through a process of choosing the best traits of natural red maples after growing countless seedlings to find the characteristics that fit the developer. Franks red folks told me that they raised thousands of red maple seedlings before finding the one tree that fit the bill. They then cloned that tree. They told me that the industry uses root cuttings so all Red Sunset Maples are clones. My children are a mix of me and my wifes genes. Easy for me to understand. Asexual reproduction by a clone via seeds only to get something else confuses the hell out of me.

Seeds are not asexual reproduction. My understanding, and most others, is the same as yours 88. Cuttings are asexual. I have taught genetics and flora and fauna are not that different except that the cells in flora have a cell wall.

Thanks. I think I get it now. Basically the seedlings are from a red maple that was developed for certain desirable traits . But that clone is really just the red maple that had the traits that the developer was looking for. The seeds would behave just as a native red maple. With the seeds having variablility like any seedling. The 3 foot sapling is turning yellow orange at the moment. Very pretty. Just cannot with certainty know how big it will get. My luck it will get as big as a native red maple.

This message was edited Dec 9, 2015 12:17 AM

No. You have to remember that those Sunset Maples in your neighborhood have spring flowers before the seeds develop in the fall. Where there are flowers blooming there will be pollen, and insects especially bees like pollen and nectar. Insects and possibly wind will cross pollinate your tree with other trees in the neighborhood and likely even some distance away. It's all quite interesting!