Seed starting MAF April !st 2014 Part 2

We came from Here: http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/1351920/#new

Ric--WHAT seed did the monster in your opening photo come from???

It looks almost Alien! G.

There's statice in the system!

Statice 'Royal Purple' germinated over warm shelf in less than 48 hours.
Also Celosia 'Coral Garden Mix' germinated in same time, same conditions.

wow typwc.
I am waiting for any new action here. Lettuce is getting a bit crowded. Do I up-pot, or start hardening in same five inch pot then go right in the garden- and when? I might try growing it in a plastic "window box " on the deck. Then when it starts getting hot I can move it under the deck where it is cool.

I am horrible with lettuce. I don't know why. Anyway, I shouldn't offer you advice on growing it :)

I've had good years and really bad years. TOday is dangerous be cause the sun makes me want to put things out, but the wind would be terrible on them.

GitaGal said:
>> talk about how Sphagnum Moss bits are a natural fungicide?
...
>> I smithereened (rubbing between my hands) a lot of it from my very dry, saved moss in a big bag, and am using it to cover all the surfaces
of all the seedling trays i use. Can't hurt!

I don't know either. I use screened, shredded pine bark somewhat the same way in seed starting trays. I used to have mixes that were too wet, even on the surface, so I had a lot of damping off.

(Now I miX a lot of fairly fine pine bark into a little ProMix-like blend to make it drain very fast and become very airy.)

But what I do that is similar to your smithereened-peat-top-dress method is that I save my larger bark shreds and chips, and lay a few of them them on top of my cells - like a layer 1-2 chips thick - so that my surface stays totally dry.

Now I never have damping off.

But you can't have a coarse surface or a coarse mix if you start very small seeds that need to be surface-sowed! I killed a whole tray of petunias that way. If your mix is chunky and "open", small seeds will will fall into crevices and never be seen again.

Now I spread a thin layer of pretty-fine vermiculite over any cell where I plan to surface-sow small seeds. AFTER they germinate and stick their heads up, I will lay a few pine chunks chips around the stem, to provide a drier surface than vermiculite.

Because I tend to overwater, I couldn't risk a layer of peat on top of my cells. It would probably stay too wet for me.

lots of seeds germinating now including heirloom tomatoes. New Quinoa Cherry Vanilla seeds are sprouting too... love love love their burgundy stems!!!

Sally, I'd start hardening them off and consider even nibbling a few trimmed leaves here and there in your salads

Rick, what does the pink bark do - keep the leaves from touching the damp soil? At what point do you put the pine mulch or nuggets on top of the cells?

My lettuce leaves are only two inches long at best. I divided them into clumps and made total of eight, 4 inch pots, giving them room to grow. Six of them I set inside a large styro cooler on its side, against the house, so they have shelter from wind and bright sun, but I can easily adjust how much sun they get, and put the open face to the house to keep them warmer. Always trying something different for kicks.

I thought we heard pine bark was bad for germination

I now have another empty wooden flat for lettuce, if I have space, that is. LOL
So far we have transplanted 1440 plants in 2 days, all that remains is 150 or so begonias. If anyone wants bronze angel-wing, pink flowered begonias or those wonderful huge cream marigolds think about it for the swap. I've used nearly a whole bale, 3.8 cubic feet of Pro Mix BX, in the effort. My seed for broccoli, cabbage and Roman broccoli must have been damaged somehow. I'll probably just buy plants at this point. I'm not sure I'll get it planted before we leave Friday AM, anyhow. I would like to plant my sugar peas and onions before then though. My garden soil is fairly well drained with all the compost I add so planting may be possible.

and folks, that is what it takes to create the wonderful blooming paradise that is Ric and Holly's place!!! Sorry about the broccolis though, that's disappointing.

>> Rick, what does the pine bark do - keep the leaves from touching the damp soil?

Semi-coarse bark on the surface (or other coarse topping) dries out quickly. (I mean shreds about as thick as a heavy toothpick or pencil lead up to the handle of a Q-tip. Not as thick as a soda straw.)

Damping off seems to attack seedling stems right where they enter the soil (I don't know why). If the soil surface is usually damp, that encourages the damping-off fungus. By providing a coarse surface, water runs right through it and then the bark dries very quickly. (It even turns a lighter color when dry, which is handy.)

Thus the stems touch dry bark, not damp peat. To prevent things from growing that you don't want, you have to provide an environment that they do not like: clean dry surface, moving air, not too humid air, and bright light.

Any top dressing that doesn't hold much water or wick water upwards much could do the same thing. Like coarse Perlite or very coarse grit.

That also keeps water from evaporating rapidly from the soil surface, keeping the air less humid and reducing your need to water frequently.

(I know that it is best to buy fresh potting mix every year. People call that "sterile", but I bet $10 that if you put some fresh potting mix in a Petri dish with nutrients, it would NOT be sterile! I think what they mean is "relatively few microbes and fewer plant pathogens". )

Nothing is "sterile" after dust from house air settles on it, or after watering!

>> At what point do you put the pine mulch or nuggets on top of the cells?

If the seeds are big and sowed 1/8" or 1/4" deep, I add chips or small nuggets right after sowing, or even earlier while filling the cells with moist mix.

If the seeds are fine and surface-sown, I wait for them to germinate on top of a little fine or medium vermiculite. Then I sneak some bark chips in, under the seedling leaves.

>> I thought we heard pine bark was bad for germination

I know that few people use bark in seedling mixes, but it works 3-4 times better for me than commercial peaty mixes (with my over-watering fetish).

If it does impair germination, I haven't notice it. Of course, anything is better than having seeds drown in over-watered peaty mix.

If you can find links that explain why pine bark is bad for germination, I would be grateful. It might well be true - there are certainly things in bark that aren't in peat (and vice-versa).

Some people say you should use "composted" bark for some purposes. I assumed that was only to reduce the "nitrogen deficit" which I think is seen more in sawdust (wood) than in bark.

And I didn't want to carry huge numbers of microbes from my compost heap to my seed-starting shelf.

Me me me, Ric! I use those begonias in my strawberry pot and I always love the pale marigolds in my garden

It's beautiful, Roses!

Newbie question here:

Right now I have lots of tulips concentrated in one bed, and lots of daffodils concentrated in an area of my back garden, and other places where other spring bulbs are concentrated.

So my question is: would it work for me to plant seeds or small plugs on top and around the bulbs? It just seems very crowded in spots with the bulbs, and I'm not sure how it works to plant around them.

Cat--if i may jump in...

The problem of what you are suggesting is that--the foliage of the Tulips and daffs
HAS TO BE left to yellow naturally--you cannot cut it down. This takes ~ 6 weeks.

I struggle with this every year--as somewhere, in that 6 week time period, it is also
time to plant purchased. or seed-grown annuals. And--there is a conflict with space--
at least in my beds.

What I am imagining--IF you are planting plugs and seedlings among the BLOOMING
bulbs--which may seem nice at that time--they will be overtaken by the layers of
dying, limp foliage laying in heaps to yellow and die.

Of course--it depends on what plants you will be planting among them.
In those 6 weeks--some plants may sprout to be a foot tall and not be bothered by all this.

Just my 2 cents. G.

That is a good point, Gita--thanks. I guess what I am wondering is what plants *could* be planted among the swaths of bulbs, and also *how* they are planted. E.g., do I sort of dig in and move aside bulbs that I happen to find? Do I just sort of make room among the bulbs, moving bulbs as I go? I was definitely imaging plants that would bloom later in the season, but that's a good point that if they are seeds or tiny plugs, then the yellowing foliage from the bulbs could sort of drown them out.

agreeing with Gita, anything too small could be buried under dying leaves.
Plant between the clumps. Plant something big enough not to get easily buried. Gently fold the dying leaves down between the new plants as they wilt. It seems to take til nearly June for them to totally die on their own. But the books all say six weeks after bloom is enough time. Well, that is about June ....

thanks, Sally!

Cat--
Since i dug up and replanted some of my Iris last year--I will have some open space
between all of them.
My plan is to grow a lot of the tall Zinnias between the iris. I have seeded piles of them...
Of course--iris leaves never die--so tall with tall should look OK. As it is--the iris, after blooming,
IS nothing but tall leaves.

Behind them in that bed (remember it?) I have Monarda and some Alium I planted last fall.
Also--the big clump of Phlox. Some straggler daffs I missed digging up--and a few
I replanted. And--my 3 Roses.
I am excited to see how this long, side bed will look this summer...
G.

This is that bed from 2011. Only full sun and no roots bed I have.

The Glen BurnieAce did not carry the
gold
potting soil you mentioned ssg, but I told them about it.
My homemade mix with lots of rice hulls did well for the lettuce.

Contrarian Karen here....

Cat, I say do whatever you want. Plant petunias on top of your tulips. Pull up those crazy bulbs while the flowers are still on them, if you so please. Why do I say that?

If you dig the bulbs up gently enough, without disturbing the roots too much, and if you replant the bulbs in a sunny place in sort of a holding tank or nursery bed, then the leaves will still be able to get the energy they need for next year, then you can dig the bulbs up when the leaves shrivel, let them dry out in the basement all summer and plant them again in the focus bed in the fall. No need to worry about unsightly foliage if you do this. Also the bulbs will be happier than if you leave them in the bed with a bunch of annuals that will need more water than your bulbs (bulbs don't like to be watered all summer long). Although I know this takes a significant amount of coordination and memory. And I don't do it myself. I personally plant seedling annuals over the bulbs and the plants all seem okay with this. *shrug* If I lose some bulbs, oh well: an opportunity to buy new!!!

Also, why did I buy bulbs from Cylburn Arboretum in May last year without foliage if they aren't going to bloom this year? I'm not sure I buy the whole 6 weeks thing. I usually do let the foliage die back naturally, I'm just saying that I don't know if I agree that it's absolutely necessary. 6 weeks is probably just good for bigger/better bulbs.

I've transplanted daffs in bloom and they bloomed the next year.

Just try it, see what happens.

As Ms. Frizzle says, "Take chances, make mistakes, get messy!"

Good points Karen

Sorry Sally and Gita, I'm really not trying to be a troll. It's a really good question from Cat and Sally and Gita provided really excellent answers.

Hey Karen, no problem, you offered another way to deal with it!

Natural consequence of my crowded shelves, dumped a pot of lettuce seedlings down the back of the shelf. Lot of dirt will stay back there until all the plants are outside.

Oh that is such a bummer :(
One of my shop lights is out. Kind of an inconvenient time. Won't be able to replace the lights till the w/e. But I have lots of seedlings growing.

Karen---

I just dug up a clump of almost-in-bloom daffs as it camr up right below
one of the Iris sections I planted back in.

I am not even sure if the iris have dine any rooting in over the winter...
how could they" Everything was frozen solid....
Most of the iris divisions were so heaved up--I gently stepped on them to re-settle them.

I sure hope they bloom this spring--if not--"there will always be another spring for me"...
(last line from my Poem--Spring"...)
G.

Typ, you renegade! ;-) I enjoy hearing all the perspectives! :-)

When daffodils are growing where I want to plant something else, I dig up the whole clump. They have to be divided at least every other year anyway. If I have another spot for the clump, I plant them there; if not, I separate the bulbs and set them to the side. Just before I'm ready to put the new plant into the hole, I put the bulbs back in at a depth of about 5-7", move the foliage to the side and put the new plant right on top of the bulbs.

It doesn't look great, but it's easy, and the foliage turns yellow faster than normal so you don't have to look at it for too long.

Going back to the question of whether or not pine mulch inhibits germination:

The caladium bulbs that I potted up recently are showing signs of *mold* on the soil! All that light, fluffy soil. :-( Any suggestions for how to get rid of the mold and not have it come back?

thanks!
Catmint

Better air circulation? I don't know. I have a couple moldy seed pots.

Found my Sungold seeds and just started them. And a week or two will be time for cucumbers- but I best not rush it with this cold year.

well, is the mold on the soil going to affect the growing plants? Should I scrape off the moldy part and putting pine fines down? (I think Greenthumb said the pine inhibits fungus.)

I had mold on some self-watering seed starters, so I scraped off the mold and sprinkled cinnamon on top. I also started using the fan more regularly.

Thanks, SSG! That's a good tip about cinnamon.

Cat--

Did you winter over your caladiums in the pots they grew in?
Did you keep these pots totally dry and cool in your basement--OR--
Did you keep the pots somewhere where you were watering them AND cool?
...see what i am getting at?.....

Just asking and thinking what may lead to mold. Are you SURE it IS mold?
Could it be the salts deposits one sees on clay pots that get a bit old?

I had all my caladium bulbs planted in beds. They all got dug up--spread out to dry (totally)
and then stored hanging in mesh bags, like onions come in, and hung in my cold Shop.(58*).
It may be a bit and soon--but I am thinking that maybe I should pot them up to start germinating.
I know they take a while to do that.....

Lets face it! We are JUST 6 weeks away from our Frost Free date...(May 10th)
Warm weather better get here soon!

G.

thanks, Gita. These were brand new pots, brand new soil, new bulbs that I planted a couple weeks ago in the new pots with the new soil. The fungus is on the top of the soil itself, not on the pot. At least, it sure looks like fungus--it is sort of fuzzy and greyish. The pots have been in my dining area.

Here's the best I could do for a photo. The greyish splotches are the fuzzy grey fungus/mold.

Well---
I can come up with new thoughts--maybe one of them will hit the "AHA"
strings in your situation.

Is the soil you used old? as i am thinking--the fungusy strands may have
formed in the bag--was the soil wet and cold?
Was it a "mix" or was it "soil"?

Here's a crazy idea......get your hair dryer and blow it on the fungus and see if it
gets killed..Shield the plant..

In the long run--I don't know what to tell you. I am sure someone will.
G.