Tomatoes: Cross pollination??

I grew quite a few tomatoes this season and all but one were as expected. I got some seeds in a trade from a girl who told me that they were Valley Girls.A pink cherry tomato from what I can gather.I have not seen pictures of VG to be certain though.Efforts to contact my source are fruitless.All I had was an e-mail on file and she must have changed ISP's.You live and learn.

What I got was what I am calling a mini-beefsteak.They were 3" across and extremely uniform in shape.All slightly flattened.The 2 vines that I planted were identical in form and fruit.I wasn't planning to save the seed this season,just trial the tomato.

The fruits were a dusky pink.Almost muted in tone.I thought at first maybe that the VG's had crossed with a black tomato,but Carolyn,after seeing pictures of them didn't think so.And the more I thought about it,I'm sure she's right.These tomatoes are uniform in skin color with no streaks or off colored shoulders.They ripen so completely uniform they look almost plastic.A black parent surely wouldn't do this.

The interior gel is green and they have a meaty center.On top of this..they are absolutely delicious!My cousin's DH is a chef in Austin,TX and he picked this tomato out from the 20 or so that I gave him to sample when they were here this summer.

Anyway,I'm curious.This is the assumed product of F1 seed,so what I've saved is presumably F2.I saved seed from one plant only and 5 tomatoes from that plant.I want to stabilize what I grew this summer.I thought by saving the seed from one plant only,that the genes would be more stable than a series of plants.How long would the estimated stabilization time be,presuming that both parents were OP and stable themselves?I guess that's a big wish..but I'm an optimist.

Here is a picture of the tomato.I have dubbed it 'Mystery Girl' for the time being.One,to give a link to it's heritage and 2...I happen to love Roy Orbison.
http://davesgarden.com/plants/go/548.html

A few of you have seeds of this already and are going to grow this out with me next season so we can see what we get.
Does anyone else want to help??

Melody,

Presumably you received F1 seeds. All plants grown from those F1 seeds theorectically should have been identical although there's all sorts of reasons why they might not be which I won't discuss here.

You've now got the F2 seeds you saved from the fruits/plant you like.

You've got to plant lots of plants to have a chance at getting that same selection you like. Becasue when you plant the F2 seeds you start to see what is called genetic segregation and the chromosomes are sorting out themselves from the two parents.

The chances of anyone to whom you send seeds getting your selection is very very low unless they plant out lots of plants. That's a statistical argument and valid, but one can always get lucky. LOL

For instance, when I started dehybridizing what is known as Off the Vine, I planted out 12 plants and only one was the lovely red beefsteak, PL form that I wanted. Same story with Big Boy when I first startred dehybridizing it. I planted 12 plants and only one of the F2 seeds gave me a plant with pink fruits which suggested the Teddy Jones parent I was after.

So in order to genetically stabilize out this selection of yours it's going to be a matter of planting lots of plants each of the first years, selecting your fave again, saving seeds, replanting, etc.

And after 3-10 years, depending on the genetic traits being selected for, you'll have your OP derivative you want.

Carolyn

Thanks Carolyn,that is pretty much what I planned to do.I was planning on 12 plants for next year's garden and I didn't know what to tell the others who were planning to do this with me.I know that Dave is going to help and he has plenty of room for this many plants and I wanted to make sure that anyone else who is intrested to be aware of what is involved.I may put in a few more to be safe.

How long have you been working on Teddy Jones and what did you get the 3rd year?How many parents does the Big Boy have?Lots of questions,but this is facinating!

By the way,I'm not sure on the history of Valley Girl.Is it a stable OP,or one of these 'created'crosses like Joe Bratka makes? Wouldn't that give me some idea about what I'm up against?

This is new territory for me,but I thought it would give me an education in the actual workings of tomato genetics.Hands on is better when it's available,right?

I still prefer getting a baby food jar from an elderly person filled with their precious seeds.The look on their faces when told that people actually care about what they have been doing all of these years is priceless.Most have no one to hand these seeds down to,as so many people don't realize that history is being tossed in the garbage every time an old home is being cleaned out because the occupants have died.

Melody,

Big Boy, like all the earliest older hybrids has but two parents. They are all hybridized by doing a simple one on one cross compared to modern hybrids where breeding lines are used and a single variety may have up to 6-8 parents.

At the third year with Big Boy I had more pink fruited plants but then in talking with Dr. Schifriss, who hybridized it, he told me that the fruit size I had was too small. I had described the fruit size for him and he said it should be much larger than the fruit size of the other parent, which he swore me to secrecy on, but which I know. LOL Doesn't seem it matters that much becasue no one could reproduce Big Boy without having Teddy Jones and those seeds are not available.

So after the third year I went back and started over again and was at the F3 to be planted when I stopped after moving here to my new home.

With OTV Brandywine it took me five years to get it to a point where every seed saved gave the right plant and fruit. As I said, the time it takes to get to an OP varies depending on the specific genetic traits being selected for.

Twelve plants was all I was willing to plant. Had I planted more I would have had a much better chance at seeing the larger supposed precursor to Teddy Jones. And by dehybridizing I can never get a Teddy Jones that is 100% Teddy Jones; maybe 80-90%, but not 100%. That has to do with the phenomenon of genetic segregation which is never complete.

Melody, I know nothing at all about Valley Girl and haven't even made any attempsts to research it. Sorry.

But if what you have is a cross between it and something else it really doesn't matter what your Valley Girl was since you know it's supposed to be a pink cherry.

Carolyn

Thanks so much for all of this good information and for stopping in here. It sounds like I'm on the right track at least.

Should I save seeds from only one plant again,presuming that I get more than one with the traits I am looking for? That seems to be logical,but it may not be correct.

Melody,

Yes, save seeds from the fruits on just one plant and actually save seeds from just one fruit on one plant. LOL

Unlike the normal way in which one should save seeds to maintain genetic diversity, in the case of dehybridizing you want the opposite; that is, to concentrate or highlight or enrich ( having trouble coming up with the right word this AM, LOL) the genes you're after.

Hope that makes sense.

Carolyn

This information makes perfect sense.I understand what I am after. I want to take a perfect fruit with the characteristics that I want and inbreed it.(for want of a better word)
I am narrowing the gene pool available ,so that fewer possibilities for 'off types' exist.

Really,the whole process sounds simple enough.The only thing is, to plant enough plants to come up with the one with the desired traits.Then you have to grow it out enough years to the point where you get no off-type plants or fruits.

Keeping careful records and reserving seed from the previous season so if there are no desired plants in a season,all is not lost.