Fern Assortment Group Buy from North Creek

So far those interested in Fern assortment are Terp. Greenthumb,Greenthumb's sister, Catmint. Critter, Yehudith, Aspenhill. and Holly and a second assortment for Critter.

If we get two more fern fanciers, our assortment would look something like this. Cost and # are approximate.


Fern Assortment split 8 ways Sample

1 Ostrich Fern (1.75) (3/4 flat AH)
3 Athyrium x Ghost (4.50)
4 Athyrium Regal Red (6.00)
4 Athyrium Branford Rambler (6.60)
4 Athyrium Victoriae (7.00)
2 Dryopteris goldiana (3.00) (1/4 GT, 1/4 AH. 1/8 Critter)
3 Dryopteris australis (4.50) (1/4 GT)
4 Dryopteris marginalis (6,00)
4 Dryopteris 'Briiiance' (6.00)

30 ferns (9 - 11 varieties) $ 45.00 (approximate) (Each fern costs between $1.50 and $1.75 each)

Split 10 ways Sample (3 of each with adjustments on Ostrich, goldiana, etc TBD) Varieties considered.

Athyrium felix-femina 'Lady in Red' (5,25)
Athyrium x Branford Rambler (4.95) hybrid spreader
Athyrium felix-femina Victoriae (5.25) 3 Prefer 'Lady in Red" a native fern
Athyrium x Ghost (4.50)
Athyrium niponicum Regal Red (4.50)
Dryopteris x australis (4.50) Greenthumb 8 plants
Dryopteris erythrosora 'Briiiance' (4.50)
Dryopteris goldiana (3.00) Greenthumb /Aspenhill will take unwanteds 2 per share
Dryopteris marginalis (4.50) native fern handles dry shade once established
Matteuccia Ostrich Fern (1.75) Aspenhill will take unwanteds 1 per share
Polystichum polyblepharum Korean Tassel fern ($4.50) non native beauty

Ferns can be added or dropped depending on our individual interests as noted in our discussions below.

Link to North Creek catalog
http://www.northcreeknurseries.com/index.cfm

This message was edited Mar 20, 2014 11:10 AM

This message was edited Apr 11, 2014 10:31 AM

Having lunch with my sister tomorrow. She may be interested in a mixed flat.

thanks, Coleup. Please go ahead and put me down as one of the fern supporters. ;-)

Coleup, are you "in" for an assortment of ferns yourself?

If we end up with more than 8 people, I'm fine with dropping numbers down... I know the math isn't as straightforward, but ideally I'd like to plant these in groups of 3 for a more "established" look (odd numbers make the best clumps/groups). If I get 4 plants of a variety, I'll probably plant out 3 and pot up the 4th as a "backup."

If there are ferns available, my sister will spring for a share. I can back off on my 1/4 flats if needed to free some plants up.

As long as all are OK with approximately 30 ferns for approximately $45 we can go several ways if more than 8 are interested. We can drop to 3 each or add a fern or two not on list...

Are all of the ferns on the sample list wanted in the assortment? Would we rather have Sensitive Fern, Tassel, Hay Scented, Maidenhair, Royal? Do we want Branford Rambler? Regular Lady Fern or Lady in Red?

I could use a "Rambler" spreading here & there under my trees... I also thought Lady in Red was gorgeous. Tassel ferns are really cool, too. You can see I'm easy to please! I love the ones on the list, too, although it'll be a challenge to find good places for the big/tall ones...

Coleup you asked for preferences in which ferns we get. I am pretty much fine with however they are divided up. I don't have much room for the taller ferns but can find a few spots or can find someone that would want them. These 3 are the ones that I am least interested in so if anyone would like more of these you can pass them on and give me the shorter varieties.
Ostrich Fern
Dryopteris goldiana
Dryopteris australis
Thanks Holly

I particularly like these 5 but would be willing to change varieties if there is a real interest in something else.
Dryopteris 'Briiiance
Athyrium Victoriae
Athyrium Branford Rambler
Athyrium Regal Red
Athyrium x Ghost

I'm not sure 'Victoriae' flips my switch, but it's probably really cool looking in person.

D. 'Brilliance' is a stunning plant... picked up one last fall for my MIL, and we had such a hard time choosing where it should go that we went back for 3 more.

I'd be happy with as few as 3 plants of one of those taller varieties (ostrich, D. goldiana, D. australis), but I think those are all "in" simply because there's already interest in half a flat of them...

Is there any interest in ASTILBE to go with all these ferns? ADR has a pretty good assortment, looks like most work out to be $1.20 per bare root plant ("#1 division" which last year looked quite nice when we tried a couple). Although they're marked "sold out" on the website, Chis told me he could probably get us what we wanted. I think the compact "Key" series (Astilbe simplicafolia) are especially pretty, maybe also those newer "younique" hybrids (compact enough for pots). And you know I'm usually up for anthing pink or purple! https://www.adrbulbs.com/category/Wholesale-Bulk-Bare-Root-Perennials

I'm not trying to derail this thread... if there's interest, we'll take it to a new thread for ADR spring perennials. :-)

Thanks so much, Coleup! My interest is as follows:

Ones I am most interested in:
3 Athyrium x Ghost
4 Athyrium Regal Red
4 Dryopteris marginalis
4 Dryopteris 'Briiiance'

Ones I am less interested in:
1 Ostrich Fern
4 Athyrium Branford
4 Athyrium Victoriae
2 Dryopteris goldiana
3 Dryopteris australis

Coleup, I would be okay substituting with Tassel, Maidenhair, or Lady in Red.

Also, could I offer a general plea regarding how we refer to plants? I know there was some rumbling a little while back from some about preferring ordinary, common names to fancy-schmancy scientific names, and so maybe this is why people are leaning towards using only common names right now, but:
(1) Most plant catalogs are organized by scientific name. I just spent about an hour trying to match up the 'ordinary, common' name with the correct scientific name through google searches and catalog searches so I could look at the picture and determine my relative interest. If someone is super familiar with all the common names and their corresponding scientific names, then this is not a problem, but for a relative newbie like me, it would really have been helpful to have the scientific name to cut down on time and frustration in matching common name with a picture in the catalog.
(2) In general, as a newbie I have found that many common names actually refer broadly to multiple scientific names, so if someone tells me e.g., 'that's a daisy' I actually end up without a clue as to how I would actually go about obtaining the exact same flower because when I look up 'daisy' (just an example) hundreds of options appear.
(3) Without the exact scientific name, I often don't have enough info about a new plant to research it and figure out exactly where it might be happiest in my garden. E.g., one of the things I've found frustrating about buying plants from the big box stores is that often the plant id does *not* contain enough scientific info for me to go home and look the plant up and research its needs so I can find the best place to plant it.

So, not to be at all critical or a negative nellie, but just a plaintive plea from a newbie that far from being fancy-schmancy and unnecessary to common, ordinary, plain-spoken folk, the scientific names actually help me pinpoint exactly what a plant is and determine if I want it or not and also, once I get it, where to plant it and how to best care for it... :-)
I know for some who have years of experience with plants, this might seem pretty silly and unnecessary on my part (you know, useless book-learning compared to hands-on experience), but for someone like myself who doesn't yet have the hands-on experience, I do rely to some extent on what I can read and research...

okay, off my soapbox... but would it be okay with all those in favor of common, ordinary names to include enough of the scientific name so someone like me can easily look the plant up in the catalog?

Catmint, you make an excellent point -- and I've been on the same soapbox, although I think I was guilty of using a few variety names on this thread without the botanical name. :-)

See my DG article from 2008: http://davesgarden.com/guides/articles/view/707/

The North Creek page that Coleup linked at the top of this thread does have all the ferns by scientific name, as does her list.

I like seeing both, There is a definite advantage to having the proper botanical names but I don't recognize them, so I find myself looking up plants that I would have other wise just known what they were. Then if I only have the common name I find myself finding 3 of them and wondering exactly which of them is the one I have. Having both when possible is great for everyone.

thanks, Critter. Great article! I hadn't seen it before but it perfectly captures what I struggle with--even down to using 'daisy' as an example! :-)

I agree, Holly. I usually use both, too. I have a plant database that I started last summer after I realized that it would be useful for me to remember the names of what I had planted--LOL! My plant database includes 3 'name' columns--one for common name(s), one for scientific name, and one for cultivar. It helps me to look at common and scientific names together, so I can learn to associate the two...

This message was edited Mar 1, 2014 11:17 AM

I generally put both names on my seed packet labels, although I'll skip the latin name for something like "Tomato" or "Basil" or "Sweet Pepper" bec. I don't think there's any potential for confusion there.

Ferns, on the other hand -- so many different genus names and corresponding culture requirements!

Oh Catmint, LOL I love having the names of my plants and quite often put labels with them when planted and take pictures of them and put them in my DG Journal. Then something always seems to happen..... I see little plant tags blowing across the lawn, I loose my list before I get them entered into the Journal or I find that the name that came with the plant couldn't possibly be right. But still I try.

Sorry, all, just laziness on my part as I have to type all of the names, scientific or common which I am least skilled at doing!

Adiantum pedatum (Northern Maidenhair) is not available til post Swap as is the case with Osmunda cinnamomea (Cinnamon Fern) Woodwartiana virginiana is sold out until 2015.
Phegopteris decursive-pinnata (Japanese beech fern) is also unavailable.

I believe that we have an outstanding fern assortment to work with under either of the Sample Assortments> outlined below. As for those not favoring the taller ferns like Ostrich or 'goldiana' I believe that Greenthumb and Aspenhill will absorb any 'unwanteds' As delivery time gets near, there will undoubtedly be some changes and adjustments of odds and ends. Until that time, the assortment below titled Sample split 10 ways will be the assortment being ordered for our group buy.

This message was edited Mar 1, 2014 11:49 AM

LOL on the plant tags blowing across the lawn and misleading ID tags from the store! :-D

When I think back on plants that didn't do well for me last year, a lot of them were my 'what are you again?' plants. ;-)

Thanks everyone. North Creek may have 2 additional ferns available by Spring Swap time that
I think would be good for our assortment. Athyrium felix-femina 'Lady in Red' and Thelypteris noveboracensis( New York Fern.) So, I made another sample assortment. including them, and split ten ways if others want to share

http://www.northcreeknurseries.com/index.cfm

On Order
>Fern Assortment split 10 ways

3 Athyrium felix-femina 'Lady in Red' (5,25)
3 Athyrium x Ghost (4.50)
3 Athyrium niponicum Regal Red (4.50)
3 Athyrium x Branford Rambler (4.95)
3 Athyrium felix-femina Victoriae (5.25)
3 Dryopteris erythrosora 'Briiiance' (4.50)
3 Dryopteris x australis (4.50)
3 Dryopteris marginalis (4.50)
2 Dryopteris goldiana (3.00)
1 Matteuccia Ostrich Fern (1.75)
3 Thelypteris New York Fern (5.43

30 ferns $43.13

thanks, Coleup. What a great assortment! Thanks for all your work pulling this together. BTW, I'm always happy to help with typing! One of the few things I'm actually good at--LOL. Maybe we could have a buddy system where you talk to me on the phone about it while I type it up? :-)

I love it! Groups of 3 are my favorite for planting out (or maybe potting up in a big container and planting in fall, not sure yet).

Thanks!

Judy, I personally would prefer Thelypteris noveboracensis (New York Fern) rather than two Athyrium felix-femina varieties. Of the two Athyrium felix-feminas, I think 'Lady in Red' fills space better and looks more robust.

David, do you mean you prefer the 'lady in Red over the felix femina Victoriae? I agree that Lady in Red has more substance than regular Athrium feiix femina.
North Creek should know sometime this week or next if any New York fern will be 'ready by our swap time. Weather is playing a role in plant readiness dates.

Yes, I personally prefer 'Lady In Red' over 'Victoriae'.

I'm confirming what ever I committed to. I'm in for so much now I don't remember anymore but I'm confirming anyway.

Yehudith

Holly I'm more than happy to take your big ones and I can give you my little ones. How does that sound. I'm really hot for the ostrich ferns.

Yehudith

Greenthumb and Coleup, thanks for making it so easy for me to find these 3 varieties in the NC catalog. I also like the Athyrium felix-femina Lady in Red over the Victoriae. Thelypteris noveboracensis (New York Fern) sounds good to me, plus I found this about it in the native plant database:

BENEFIT
Use Ornamental: Foliage groundcover for shady woodland gardens in eastern North America
Use Wildlife: Provides shelter for toads
Interesting Foliage: yes

Toads, yes!!! :-)

Thanks Yehudith, Originally you spoke up for an assortment of 24 but we have gone to 30.
It is good to know you favor Ostrich ferns or other big ones.

Everyone
Please do not make arrangements to trade out ferns from 'your' assortment to anyone else.
Just list your preferences here so that I have best info and max flexibility to make up best assortment for all. I like to most interested in/ least interested in format. There will be opportunity to trade amongst us some time before delivery in April/May. Thanks

Those in for a share of fern assortment are: Green thumb, Green thumb sister, Umdterp, Aspenhill, Critter, Holly, Catmint and Yehudith. This leaves 2 shares available.

'Lady In Red' is a naturally occurring native variant from New England, USA. 'Victoriae' is a variant from Wales, Great Britain. Prefer to go with our local flora gene pool when possible.

Thanks for that info, Greenthumb! Good to know.

Anyone want to make a case for Onoclea sensibilis (Sensitive fern)
http://www.northcreeknurseries.com/plantName/Onoclea-sensibilis-

or Polystichum polyblepharum (Tassel fern) which is not native but tends to remain evergreen?
http://www.northcreeknurseries.com/plantName/Polystichum-polyblepherum-

Should we drop Dryopteris marginalis another Native fern that tolerates dry shade once established?
http://www.northcreeknurseries.com/plantName/Dryopteris-marginalis-

What do any of us consider the pluses and minuses of Ostrich Fern (Matteuccia struthiopteris)
http://www.northcreeknurseries.com/plantName/Matteuccia-struthiopteris-

Personally I like the Lady ferns and would like both the 'Lady in Red' and the Victoriae because they are more 'delicate' and they are clump forming rather than becoming colonies. So, for me they mix better with some other shade plants as companions. Lady ferns (Athyrium felix femina) don't entirely shade out what grows beneathe.

lol Catmint, I saw that comment about toads too!

Edited to note that Tassel fern is not native to US Thanks for catching that David!

This message was edited Mar 2, 2014 1:14 PM

David, I agree about the native gene pool. What are your thoughts on the Athyrium 'Regal Red', Branford Rambler, or 'hybrid' 'Ghost'?

Good questions, Coleup! Just looked up each of these on MOBAT and NPIN (some notes pasted in further below) and here's what strikes me:

Onoclea sensibilis (Sensitive fern): sounds cool, grows best in very wet conditions, best for rain gardens--how many of us have that?
Polystichum polyblepharum (Tassel fern): sounds nice, easy to grow, and looks nice with other common shade plants like carex and heuchera; might feel a twinge of guilt about its non-native status; still, just a twiny twinge --would be willing to endure the suffering LOL...
Dryopteris marginalis: cover for toads and lizards, yay! Likes it on the moist side but would probably do well somewhere in my yard
Matteuccia struthiopteris (Ostrich fern): sounds like a good choice for people who have a lot of space they want to cover or who like to eat the 'fiddleheads', but sounds like it's not a good choice for smaller gardens, plus it also seems to be more of a water garden plant.

My vote would be for Tassel fern and Dryopteris marginalis, but I can see the benefit of Ostrich fern or Sensitive fern for those who have water gardens and/or large spaces to fill.

Onoclea sensibilis (Sensitive fern)
BENEFIT
Use Ornamental: Bog or pond area, Water garden
Use Wildlife: Shelters salamanders and frogs
Use Other: Cut fronds good for dried flower arrangements
Interesting Foliage: yes
Attracts: Birds

Polystichum polyblepharum (Tassel fern)
MOBAT: Tassel fern is an evergreen fern that is native to Japan and southern Korea.
NC catalog: Meaning "many eyelashes" polyblepherum describes the fuzzy stems of this glossy deep green garden fern. Dependable and hardy, it lends elegance to the shade border and combines well with Carex, Heuchera and other ferns. Evergreen in warmer zones.
NPIN: Not in database

Dryopteris marginalis
NPIN: A well-behaved, non-colonizing fern for the cool, eastern woodland landscape, this fern never becomes aggressive. In snowy winters, it can be glimpsed protruding through blankets of snow, its blue-green coloration in stately contrast to the surrounding white. BENEFIT:
Use Ornamental: An evergreen, clumping fern for cool eastern woodland landscapes
Use Wildlife: Provides cover for toads and lizards
Interesting Foliage: yes

Matteuccia struthiopteris (Ostrich fern):
NPIN: Conditions Comments: Ostrich fern can become aggressive and should not be used in small spaces.
NC Catalog: Large, lustrous, dark green fronds arch gracefully and give the tropical feel of a palm. Happiest in a cool moist site, it will tolerate more sun at the side of a stream or pond. Emerging fiddleheads are delectable sautéed in a bit of oil.
MOBAT: These vegetative fronds usually depreciate as the summer proceeds, begin to look rather tattered by early fall and finally lose their leaflets later in the fall as the plant goes dormant for the winter. Mass in moist, shady woodland areas, wild gardens or wet areas near streams or ponds. Combines well with astilbes or hostas. Plant in conjunction with early spring wildflowers (e.g., trilliums, bloodroot, trout lilies or Dutchman's breeches) which will be well on the way toward dormancy by the time this fern reaches full size.

This message was edited Mar 2, 2014 11:18 AM

Polystichum polyblepharum is native to Korea, not North America. Personally, I have several D. marginalis already, so I'm not really looking for more, but it is an excellent, durable species that I recommend highly.

Onoclea sensibilis (Sensitive fern) spreads readily, an asset if you want a ground cover. It will not stay in one place, so if you plant it in with many other plants you will have to "weed" and bring to plant swaps.

Ostrich Fern (Matteuccia struthiopteris) is a great architectural plant, giving a lush look to the garden. If really happy, spreads fairly aggressively, so again choose location carefully and plan to share.

Athyrium 'Regal Red', is a cultivar of Japanese Painted Fern. While I generally prefer natives, it is a quite colorful fern and I grow it.

Bradford Rambler is a cross between Lady Fern, Athyrium felix-femina, and Japanese Painted Fern. A little dishonest for North Creek to claim it is NE US native. Shame on them!

The same is true with Athyrium x Ghost. I really like this very attractive fern and have several, but I am really disgusted with North Creek labeling this as"Native to Northeast". It seems that you can tell at their site which plants they are misleading on because they omit USDA Distribution Maps because they don't exist. Love this fern though.

Apparently one has to do their homework before dealing with North Creek.

Greenthumb, it looks like Branford and Ghost are hybrids that use the Athyrium niponicum var. pictum (Japanese Painted Fern) as half of its heritage? And Regal Red is a cultivar of Athyrium niponicum? Is that correct? So the Branford and Ghost would seem to be half-native?

I actually like the look of Ghost and Regal Red more than Branford. It's nice to have some color. Plus, it always concerns me a bit with my smaller garden space when catalogs use words like 'frisky' and 'vigorous' to describe a plant, as NC does with Branford...

Edited to say: Greenthumb looks like our posts crossed, and yes I agree it's misleading if NC is labeling them as native when they are not.

This message was edited Mar 2, 2014 11:37 AM

There is a reason that "Rambler" is in its name.

LOL Greenthumb! based on your very clear and helpful comments, I'm sticking with my votes for Tassel Fern, Dryopteris marginalis, Ghost, and Regal Red, despite my twinges of non-native guilt... ;-)