Pinus Problems

Eau Claire, WI(Zone 4a)

I tredded through 2' of snow to get to check on these two little pines, and neither looks like they're handling the extended bitter cold we've experienced for what seems like an eternity. Both have what appears to be winter burn above snow line. The P. aristata, which I had posted about last fall, was in marginal condition when I planted it, so no great surprise if it doesn't make it. The other one (with cones) is P. bungeana. The needles look more gold than brown, and wondering if can't take some comfort in this?

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/1338108/

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Scott County, KY(Zone 5b)

I know what I'd suggest you take comfort in - which closely matches the color of those needles - and I'm sorry for your loss.

There's bound to be a recommended way to deflect the rigors of your winters from these poor babes in the woods. What have your MN friends done that works?

Eau Claire, WI(Zone 4a)

Quote from ViburnumValley :
What have your MN friends done that works?


Good question. I haven't heard hide nor hair from them in some time. Minnesota winters have a way of making people go into hibernation. I'm so glad I live in a more benign state.

I'm hoping the high snow line will allow one or both of these to survive, but I take you are not quite so optimistic. True?

Northumberland, United Kingdom(Zone 9a)

If the needles are yellow rather than brown, they may well be OK - it may just mean drawdown of chlorophyll from the needles without any damage. Both are very hardy species, well adapted to coping with extreme cold. Wait till spring and see what happens.

Resin

Scott County, KY(Zone 5b)

That which does not kill your plants makes you stronger.

Maybe all your pampering has just softened them up. At some point, they have to pull themselves up by their fascicles and make their own way in life.

Discolored conifer needles are quite common here as well, what with Juniperus virginiana and Thuja plicata bronzing annually to more or less extent. Other non-natives like Cryptomeria japonica, Cunninghamia lanceolata, and Cephalotaxus harringtonia might not recover as easily after extended brisk conditions - especially when wee and with limited root systems to keep up with dessication.

Darn thing about waiting for spring up there...half the year is shot by then.

Eau Claire, WI(Zone 4a)

Quote from Resin :
...it may just mean drawdown of chlorophyll from the needles without any damage.


Well then, that's what I'll be hoping for. My initial impulse was to pull the snow away from them to see if the color change extended below the snow line, but I thought the better of it knowing that deep snow cover is probably their best ally right now.

I find it interesting that some conifers turn yellow/gold in spring with arrival of warm temps, while others turn yellow/gold in winter with onset of cold temps. Is this caused by the same basic biological process, just in different seasons, or would these be two completely different causes?

Scott County, KY(Zone 5b)

That's outside my pay grade, but I'll offer some thoughts.

Mature leaves/foliage "turning" some other color due to temperature/exposure is qualitatively different than the emergence of colorful (other than green) new leaves/foliage in spring from dormant buds.

(Robin) Blissfield, MI(Zone 6a)

Sorry for your predicament Pseudo, I'm also hoping for the best for you...it ain't over til the fat lady sings. We sure got hammered with a savage winter this year, I guess we were due.

Global warming...my fragrant ash!

Eau Claire, WI(Zone 4a)

Quote from Mipii :
Global warming...my fragrant ash!


I might hug your fragrant ash, but I'm not going to kiss it...

(Robin) Blissfield, MI(Zone 6a)

Lol...excuse me while I blush...

Smart move not to remove the snow!

Scott County, KY(Zone 5b)

Maybe your lips could caress this conifer...

Abies firma taking one for the team this winter.

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Saint Louis, MO(Zone 6a)

VV, I'm curious about the shivering abies firma you posted.
He resides at the Valley?
Has he thrived or just getting by? Full sun or part shade?
I had one struggle a few years before being mercifully euthanized by deer rubbing.
I didn't replace it since it didn't seem at all happy.
I've tried other supposedly heat-tolerant species over the years
(nordmannii, pinsapo & concolor), but none fared any better.
The still have a couple dwarf koreana's going strong.
I think they survive by being partly shaded by larger conifers scattered around them.

Eau Claire, WI(Zone 4a)

Quote from ViburnumValley :
Maybe your lips could caress this conifer...


It looks like it's already had the kiss of death, but I could try...

Scott County, KY(Zone 5b)

This Momi Fir resides at the Valley, yes. This is the first winter it has had this severe cold/wind exposure, which has resulted in the beige makeover. And while it may look forlorn...

Quoting:
Whoo-hoo-hoo, look who knows so much. It just so happens that your friend here is only MOSTLY dead. There's a big difference between mostly dead and all dead. Mostly dead is slightly alive. With all dead, well, with all dead there's usually only one thing you can do.

Miracle Max, The Princess Bride, 1987


I have had Abies firma in the ground since fall 2010, when I purchased it as a 5G plant from Shadow in Tennessee when the Holly Society of America 63rd Annual Meeting visited there. Always dangerous...

This fir has thrived, pushing decent new growth each year - but has only completed three growing seasons. It is in full sun except for the Viburnum trilobum Red Wing™ in the vicinity which would like to crowd it out. I may pop it out and put it in finer digs - like where the Eastern White Pines are cascading toward their mission of being totems.

I don't know why you should have difficulty with any of the firs rated positively for the middle part of the country. That should include:

Abies borisii-regis
Abies cephalonica
Abies cilicica
Abies concolor
Abies homolepis
Abies koreana
Abies nordmanniana
Abies pinsapo
Abies veitchii

A cool root-run may be worthwhile, but I don't think shading the foliage is necessarily required except for maybe the most northerly adapted species. I have some sloping ground, and that's where I have happy Nordmann Fir growing with a northerly to easterly aspect. That species is widely planted in Lexington and Louisville, with many old specimens to be found. I think all firs appreciate good drainage, and sufficient moisture during extended drought periods.

My only loss of Nordmann Fir is my first one which got planted in a spot that turned out to be excessively wet in winter. It did not like that, but I let it live out its life because it coned so heavily every year. We cut it down and used it as a "Charlie Brown" Christmas tree this year out in the front yard.

I had a decent sized Abies concolor as one of my original plants at the Valley, transplanted as a six footer from my previous residence. It grew here for about 14 years till the February 2003 ice storm tipped it over into my driveway.

My soil conditions are circumneutral clay loam, on the heavy side, reasonably well drained on high ground but denser/wetter as the ground slopes. As old farmland, it was not treated well and the sloped ground has lost most of the A horizon. We average about 40" rainfall, and I still rate my property zone 5b/6a because we can have -20F winters.

Thumbnail by ViburnumValley Thumbnail by ViburnumValley Thumbnail by ViburnumValley Thumbnail by ViburnumValley
Saint Louis, MO(Zone 6a)

Thanks for the info. Maybe I'll try again, though my yard is rather sun-challenged.
Most of my yard is forested hillside, but I have a stretch along the road with unadulterated sunshine. I have 4 berms down there with supposedly dwarf conifers. Problem is, not all of them realize they're supposed to stay dwarf, so things are getting a little crowded.
Here's a pic of one of my dwarf firs, a. fraseri Piccolo; he was tiny when I got him.
He looks happy so far, but just his 3rd year.
Here's one of my conifer berms from a couple years ago. More crowded now.

Thumbnail by Weerobin Thumbnail by Weerobin
Scott County, KY(Zone 5b)

That's a happy bunch there. How do they look this afternoon?

All these discussions of what lives, what dies, what do you have luck with, etc. - all must be evaluated in the sense of "what did we start with?"

You know you've learned a lot over the period of time you've gardened. So have we all. Key is whether we can remember how things were done as we were learning; what conditions plants were in when we got them; ability to admit wrongs or even unknowns; and willingness to do some forensics or autopsies when failures occur.

Otherwise, we spin wheels and are doomed to repeat errors of the past.

Below are some assorted images from around the Valley. Note extreme lack of detailed caretaking. Here, conifers must fend for themselves against the vagaries of Viburnums and weather...

Thumbnail by ViburnumValley Thumbnail by ViburnumValley Thumbnail by ViburnumValley Thumbnail by ViburnumValley Thumbnail by ViburnumValley
Eau Claire, WI(Zone 4a)

Mmm, what do we have here? Looks like Picea omorika does quite well in the OV.

Scott County, KY(Zone 5b)

We have:

**Picea omorika
**Picea omorika
**Abies nordmanniana
**Picea orientalis
**Picea omorika twice

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