Yardening (#4)- in 2014

The whole marketing piece is interesting, Gita. I will definitely keep what you say in mind!

You just sold me on Milorganite, Gita, that is if I can find it at HD. A natural product that fertilizes lawns and shrubs while repelling deer and other critters sounds great to me!

The City of Milwaukee sure is smart to turn its waste water into $$$.

I have to back up Gita's exuberance about Milorganite. The first time I ever had an actual "Lawn" (as opposed to "front yard), what did I use as fertilizer? You guessed it; Milorganite. Used it early Spring, then got bored one day so spread it again in late July! (yes, you can do that with Milorganite; spread it in 100+ temps in glaring sun, and not have to water it in, it WILL NOT burn).

I have known for years that it can be a great deer deterrent, but I have no deer issues where I live, so I never thought of using it against squirrels. Great tip!! I think I still have 1/2 a bag downstairs, I will try that, thank you!

Milorganite really really works!!!!! Now this is so cool. I was reading a new gardening book "The Well Maintained Perennial Garden" great book, good read, lots of pictures and she recommends milorganite as a deer repellent. It doesn't burn so I just sprinkle it around the garden every couple weeks like fairy dust. Warning----it really stinks when its wet which suits me fine because the dew in the garden at night also occurs when the deer are feeding so they really get a good snoot full cause the dust from the pellets sticks to the plant leaves and the tiny pellets get stuck down in the leaf axils.
My zinnias by the way were 6 feet tall with 5-6 inch blossoms and all I used was the milorganite on them. You should have seen the butterflies!!! I had them right up until 1st frost.

Yehudith

Zinnias 6 feet tall!?!? OK, I'll need to stop by work and buy more Milorganite then, seems everyone will be wanting to eat this! =)

Can Milorganite be used in conjunction with a Scotts or TruGreen program?

I'm not sure how much my two cents are worth but here we go. I use milorginite as well in conjunction with a spray to repel the deer it is quite effective as long as you are consistent with your treatments. The desired effect is to make your plants less appealing than your neighbors. The grass is always greener nearby and plants less stinky. Squirrels are unaffected by the milorginite, at least my tough as nails park squirrels.

okay, you guys all have me *totally sold* on the milorganite now! :-D I am definitely going to ask about it at my gardening center.

I like the fact that it is essentially a recycled product. From Wikipedia: "Milorganite is the trademark of a biosolids fertilizer produced by the Milwaukee Metropolitan Sewerage District. The District captures wastewater from the metropolitan Milwaukee area, including local industries. This water is then treated at the Jones Island Water Reclamation Facility in Milwaukee, Wisconsin with microbes to digest nutrients that are found in it. Cleaned water is then returned to Lake Michigan. The resulting microbes are then dried at temperatures ranging from 900⁰-1200⁰F. Surviving pathogens are unlikely and daily tests confirm the absence of pathogens. The Milorganite program is one of the world’s largest recycling efforts; the low impact formulation was designed to recycle valuable nutrients for use on turf and gardens, reducing the need for manufactured nutrients or mined materials for fertilization. Milorganite contains virtually no salts, so it never burns plants – even in the hottest temperatures and driest conditions. You also don’t have to water it in; it will stay in the soil ready to work when moisture comes later. Each application feeds for 8-10 weeks, resulting in fewer applications."

Sequoia, yes, it can be used in conjunction with a Scott's or Trugreen program, absolutely... however.. a couple of points to note:

Combining an organic fertilizer with a chemical one sort of defeats the purpose of the organic one. Not sure how else to word that. =/

There is actually such a thing as over-fertilizing a lawn. The obvious thing is burning.. but, of course than only happens if you are heavy-handed with a chemical fertilizer.
Another thing is over-production of grass makes it harder for the dead/decomposed grass to works its way back down into the soil and incorporate back into it.

Considering where you live, I'm guessing your lawn is of a fescue variety? That's a cool season grass, so you've also got to consider the "When" of fertilizing. Early Spring and Fall are the best times, 'cause that's when fescues are actively growing. Feeding in Winter would be a waste, and to be honest (though I admitted earlier that I'd fed mine in July), Summer is a really bad time to feed. Cool-season grasses go dormant in the Summer heat, so feeding it, trying to force it to be green and pretty, when it wants to sleep puts added stress on the plant, weakening it. (like I said, yes, I admitted that I fed mine that one July, but it was only 'cause I was so excited to actually HAVE a lawn. I haven't done it again since). =)

So... in short: Yes you can combine the two, but why?

My squirrels probably wouldn't be deterred, either, but they're not a problem: in addition to deer eating my azalea buds, it's whatever ate my Virginia Sweetspire last year (I suspect rabbits) and the chipmunks that burrow under my shrubs. I've found a natural rabbit repellent sold by HD useful in deterring the chipmunks, and I think Milorganite would do the trick too, probably at a lower cost.

It should also be a good alternative for the natural lawn fertilizer I've been ordering from Gardens Alive, and it can't smell worse than the "top dressing" (read: ripened manure) that the company aerating my lawn spreads on top afterwards!

A short digression: if anyone's looking for a natural pre-emergent weed control product, I highly recommend Gardens Alive's "Original WOW! Pre-Emergence Weed Control", which is corn gluten meal. As a matter of fact, every product I've ordered from them has been outstanding. Don't order anything at full price; they have a 50% discount coupon in every catalog and online as well.

This message was edited Jan 20, 2014 10:22 AM

Thank you Muddy, for mentioning the squirrels again, I meant to reply to TERP about that. The squirrels rampaging my yard seem to be terribly tough as well, so I'll certainly take what you said with a few grains of salt. I figure what the heck though; I'll be buying and using the stuff anyway on the lawn, and it sure won't hurt to use it on/around the plants, maybe it'll surprise me. (forever living with hope, I can't seem to help it).

But, if it doesn't work, I'll take those grains of salt, add pepper to them, and roast the darned squirrels. =)

Muddy, you don't like the smell of the manure on your lawn? OK, I may be weird but, that's one of the things I love the best about driving past the Amish farms in early Spring; LOVE that smell of acres upon acres of freshly spread manure!! I roll down the windows and breathe deeply, Mmmmmm!!!!!
I'm not sure what the prices is of the fert. you're ordering from Gardens Alive, but I know for sure that Milorganite is very very reasonable. And an interesting note: At work we keep the bags of Milorganite piled up with all the rest of the fertilizers, and not too far from the grass seed. We have always had families of chipmunks living on the property -- and as much as they get into the bags of corn gluten and grass seed, they NEVER get into the bags of Milorganite. Just thought that was an interesting observation.

Thank you all for the affidavits---now I don't feel like the only "horn" in the wilderness.

Cat and Paul--I c/p your statements( above) and will print it out to pass out to customers.
We have a "kick off garden meeting coming up this Thursday.
I will pass this information out to everyone there.
Will give a copy of it to Curtis (SM) as well....

If "the powers that be" will not support this--I will promote it as often as I can by myself.
IF the customers like this product--I am sure they will spread it also by word-of-mouth.

Geez! I feel all motivated...Lawn season is coming....so exciting! G.

http://www.milorganite.com/Homeowners/Using%20Milorganite/Why%20Use%20Milorganite.aspx?utm_source=Website+Home+Page&utm_medium=Website&utm_content=Top+Right+SpiffImg&utm_campaign=Home+Page+Spiffs

Go, Gita!! :-)

Speedie, I'm still one of those ogers that uses chemicals and I don't go die hard organic although I do appreciate organic products. After a couple years of doing Scotts products myself, I'm going to leave it up to a professional this year. I just wondered if I might be able to get an extra feeding in there with the milorganite and make it pretty.

what a smart bunch of gardeners. Great discussion.

Just a note about libraries- or mine at least-
County public libraries may be cash strapped (varies) and space limited, so what is on the shelf may be mostly within about five years of publication, and what the local users like to use. Don't hesitate to ask staff if they can get you a particular book- they probably share between branches, and we all share many books across Maryland. You may even be able to get something from 'WorldCat' ; we can search far and wide and see if someone will lend.

That all applies to fiction as well as nonfiction.

Beyond that, our communiity college is an academic collection but any county resident can get a free card, or go in and browse.

Of course, despite all that, I go online most of the time. I sure wish Michael Dirr's expert tree and woody plant books were online. There are great things you won't find online.

sequoia--

I used a commercial Fertilizing Co. for 15 years....It was a good one--"NaturaLawn of America"

When they started using that "riding cart on wheels" to zip around my lawn, I felt that they were not as careful or as thorough as they had been when they used the hand pushed spreaders.
I have 2 trees, and lots of flower beds. They could NOT apply the fertilizer evenly--or
even closely to all my lawn. Once they burned my Vinca ground cover at the base of a tree
by zipping around with that scooter. THAT did it!!

Also--as the price per application grew to $45 per--and as they felt "compelled" to
do it at least 4 times a season--I dropped them. That is NOT necessary--
just a money maker for them. A good, properly mowed lawn (3"-4") will not have
too many weeds.

I just want to advise you NOT to go with a company that uses liquid Fertilizer on the lawn.
That is a quick-fix. BAM! You will gave a green lawn--and then it wears off....
Try to find a Company that uses granular, organic products.

I don't know how big your property is--but the hand-spreaders ARE more thorough.

Just my 2 cents.... Gita

thanks, Gita.

Can you or someone else share your thoughts on Hollytone? I've heard it's good for acid-loving plants like holly, azaleas, and dogwood. Would you use it on other plants as well? I've heard it's 'organic'. Is that true? It's also super expensive!!

I liked doing it myself but I haven't been able to control the weeds as well as I'd have liked. Our house was a rental property for at least 13 years before we moved in and there were at least 50% weeds in the grass if not more. I also hate that the grass has to be wet in order for the weed killer granules to be put down, that's very inconvenient and messy. I hope to use a professional for a few years and maybe take back over myself. My neighbors get theirs done and they always look beautiful so I'll ask them who they use and get a quote.

Cat--

All the "Tones" are made by Espoma and are Organic==slow release....
I use all of them--just not too regularly...Seems to be a bit time-consuming
and so it gets put off.

There are all kinds of "Tones". Each used for different plants.

http://espoma.com/p_consumer/tones_overview.html

HollyTone is for fertilizing acid-loving plants, shrubs and Evergreens.
These are usually fertilized only twice a year.
1--Late fall
2--Early spring

So--you can wait just a bit more and use the Holy Tone on all your EVERGREEN
shrubs and trees, as well as Hydrangeas, Azaleas, etc...Maybe mid February?

Yes! The "Tones" can be expensive. HD carries some of them in 8lb. bags.
I prefer to buy the big, 20lb. bags. They last a long time.

When we go to the Nursery after the Swap--you can buy all the big bags there.
I would take advantage of this.
Besides--Jill always works out that we can have 10% discount on these kinds of
purchases. The big bags are hard to find...seems only really lg. Nurseries and
garden centers carry them.

****************************************************
Sequoa--

The reason the weeds need to be wet is that the granules have to stick to the weed leaves
which will absorb the toxins and take them down to the roots.
The toxins have something in them that greatly accelerates the growth of the weeds
to the point that they self-destruct. That is why they all look gnarly and twisted afterwards.

If the lawn is nor moist or slightly wet from rain or the sprinkler
--this will not work. Or--you can get up really early when there is dew on the lawn.
****There cannot be any rain for the next 24 hours afterwards!!!

And--just FYI--there are ANNUAL weeds as well as PERENNIAL weeds.
Each has a different time of growing and treating.

Using "PREEN" can keep annual weed seeds from germinating.
Not sure if it helps with Crabgrass??? Usually a "preemergent--HALTS" is used
for those. Crabgrass IS an annual!!! Not sure if Preen works on it???

The perennial weeds grow later from roots. You would have to treat those
while they are in the "fresh growth" stage with a Weed Killer. Repeat as needed.

http://www.preen.com/

http://www.garden-counselor-lawn-care.com/when-to-apply-crabgrass-preventer.html

Gita

edited to add this site showing all kinds of pre-emergent products for Crab Grass..

http://www.domyownpestcontrol.com/pre-emergent-herbicides-c-59_188_387.html?gclid=CJS61cmpjbwCFStnOgodwlMAlA




This message was edited Jan 20, 2014 1:57 PM

Gita, I assure you I will be trying the Milorganite this year. There are local farms that inject waste solids in their fields, with outstanding results. I don't want a controversy here, I'm just giving my opinion. I know in some parts of the world it is a centuries old practice. I am looking forward to trying this, since I already use corn gluten for weed control in the beds and garden, it seems only natural to extend my "greener" ways to include fertilizer. I already use organics on somethings, like Hollytone, Plant Tone, and lobster mulch; but this would be a good addition and much more affordable. I want to try and do the lawn with corn gluten this year. There is a application schedule for lawns to reduce crabgrass and other weeds. Corn gluten is perfectly safe for aquatics, pets, and children. I do use chem fertilizers in the GH, on flats of bedding plants, and house plants, simply because it's so easy to use. I usually use something like Miracle Gro, or Peter's. At Big Lots last year they had 40# bags on clearance for something like $15, at Walmart 3# of Miracle Gro is like $19.63. I figure 40#s should last up 15-20 years.LOL
I may also look into buying some dwarf narciuss in bulk. I like the idea of the foliage not being as significant in established perennial beds and apparent benifits.

Great, Ric!!!

*****Lets all gang up on Scotts!!! Shame on them to have such high prices most people
MUST spend because they are brain-washed by the media.

*****Also--Lets all gang up on Box Stores and ask them WHY Milorganite is
stuffed into a corner where the sun don't shine! No one even notices it!
HD is so proud about their VOC (voice of the customer). Welll.............:o/
Their contact id on EVERY sales check you get.

I WILL have to buy a crab grass pre-emergent somewhere.
The link I just added (above--edit) shows all kinds of products.
I do not need one that has a fertilizer in it.
Also--do not know where to go to get some.
When we were talking about Southern States--I found out that there are two
about half hour away--in opposite directions.
Belair--and Glen Burnie.

I better get off this computer. Nothing else is getting done.

Thanks all for supporting Milorganite! G.

haaa...haaa...I am starting to sound like a politician....

Catmint, I had crocuses bloom in January the last two years, but so far this year I'm only seeing the leaves. It's a good thing, too, with more cold weather coming this week.

All of the hellebores have fat buds on them. I can't wait for them to open up!

I think there's published research out there about Milorganite being an effective deterrent for deer, but they say it depends on the density of deer population and availability of food. It doesn't work on squirrels, though. The only scent that works on them is capsaicin, which hasn't been all that effective for me.

For some reason, I'm really squeamish when it comes to handling hair. I don't think I could deal with a bag of human hair. I don't mind spiders or snakes, but something about hair (when it's not attached to a person) just freaks me out!

Muddy, I used corn gluten meal last year as a pre-emergent. I honestly can't tell if it was effective, but it's also a mild fertilizer, so I'll use it again this year. It's sold as Espoma Organic Weed Preventer, and *much* cheaper than Original WOW! Pre-Emergence Weed Control.

Catmint, all of the "Tones" are great, organic ferts. I use Biotone when planting.

Sally, does your library have a copy of that old Irma Bromback book

The Grass Is Always Greener Over The Septic Tank ?

When every any one in our little community had to move our outhouses to a new hole and cover iver the old one, it was traditional to plant a tree there and tomatoes til the tree grew up! Talk about sky high. I'm sure the multiple sprinklings of lime over the daily deposits to keep the flies down didn't hurt any thing either!

What gives me pause is what else is in there besides the good stuff?

Gee, Judy...

It IS a fertilizer....what would you be afraid of that might be in there?
This analysis was in the first link I posted above.

Post # 9751821---11:39AM

Typical Milorganite Analysis:

Primary Nutrients Secondary Nutrients Micronutrients
Nitrogen (N) 5% Calcium (Ca) 2.1% Iron (Fe) 4.34%
Phosphorus (P) 2% Sulfur (S) .58% Zinc (Zn) .045%
Potassium (K) .32% Magnesium (Mg) 0.68% Copper (Cu) .022%
Manganese (Mn) .133%
Boron (B) Trace
Chlorine (Cl) Trace
Molybdenum (Mo) Trace

Gita, think about it for a second. Someone in the household is sick, they get a prescription of drugs. The person either gets better, or (ahem) doesn't. Many folks go through old Rx's and ... FLUSH THEM DOWN THE TOILET. (must be safe now, keep them away from children's hands!). That's just one of the many "non naturals" that could get flushed. Cleaning products and other assorted chemical stuffs. Multiply that incident by literally hundreds of thousands of people doing it, using that same waste-water treatment plant, and it could be a slight problem. I can definitely see where Judy would pause to think. (where-as I try not to think too much, it gives me a headache)

Judy, I remember having that book when I was younger. GREAT book. Some library out there somewhere's got my copy now. :)

I loved Erma Bombeck. She was such a funny lady!

There are traces of hormones (from birth control pills) even in our drinking water, so I imagine the concentration of hormones and other drugs are even higher in sewage products.

The good news is that these chemicals do get diluted to very small amounts, but the bad news is that we don't know the effect of this "stew" of drugs in our system.

I think a bigger concern is the use of antibiotics in farm animals. Nearly 80% of antibiotics in this country are used by the meat and poultry industry, which has led to anti-bacteria resistant strains. This is the beginning of the end of the Golden Age of Antibiotics.

Hm, I think I'm officially off-topic.

Much as we love Erma, we have very few books over five to ten years old, THey don't survive the number of checkouts, or they don't stay popular enough.
For really old books try Goodwill;, in Glen Burnie Book Nook,; or in Baltimore, Book Thing
http://www.bookthing.org

I yardened a tiny bit today- pulling some gosh darn hen bit and spreading piles of pine needles that I hastily dumped in November and forgot.

Ric, and coleup, o thou of greenhouse experience- do chemical fertilizers last forever? If the blue crystal ones get wet, can I still dilute them and use them, or does the nitrogen drift off (for lack of a technical term); will the composition be ok?

SSGardener, thanks for the tip about Espoma Organic Weed Preventer. I haven't seen that in stores around here - I think I would have noticed because I buy other Espoma products - but I'll look for it.

I put Hollytone on just about every shrub in my garden. I like it because it works, and also because I can make my rounds and dump the same stuff on almost everything as I go. Any shrub that doesn't get Hollytone gets Plant Tone.

Muddy, I've seen it at a big box store, but can't remember if it was Lowe's or HD.

I got mine at a Southern States store.

Thanks, ssgardener. I'll check the HD website; I can always order it for pick-up at the store.
There used to be a Southern States a few miles away; it was a sad day when it closed!

Wrote myself a note. Will check it Wednesday if we (HD) has it.

Will check prices too....
Will also check to see if we have a Preen for Crabgrass pre-emergence.
Hope I don't stick it in my apron and forget it. Must wear pants that have pockets!

I finally brought hope the slip of paper I wrote all the data on for the Trimmer.

Torro 12" cordless trimmer: Comes with 2 battery packs.
Model # 201305-58-31
18 Volt
2 year Warranty
30 day risk-free trial

Price--still $59. Down from $99.

G.

Sally, So I'm chiming in waaaaaaaay off topic to say that The Book Thing is so awesome, great source for old gardening material. :)

I don't do anything to my lawn. In fact, I shrink back at the idea of fertilizing it because it will only grow faster and need more mowing. The ground under my lawn is so desperately compacted and not worth fussing over because it all turns brown by July anyway. :/

I imagine that instead I hit viewers with a "shock and awe" of color in the annual flower bed. :)

Thanks for the info Gita but I still think I'm going to leave it to a selected professional this year.

Sally, those blue fertilizers seem to last forever, if kept in a closed container they usually don't go solid. I've had some absorb moisture and form some crystals amid the blue mush but I just use a little hot H2O to thoroughly dissolve it before mixing. The ingredients should be nonreactive for safe storage. When I open my bulk bags I plan to store it in a sealed bucket, removing only about a quart jar at a time. Just don't store large quantities of any fertilizer with volatile petroleum products. Evil Grin

Thanks, Ric.

We are 'halfhearted ' fertilizers and no-hearted herbicides (weedkill/prevent) partly due to the size of the lawn. We have used Milorganite and other stuff. I bet we really need more lime and calcium, we have not done that with any regularity and we know that shallow well water down here runs about 4 pH before treatment.
Mark worked on a golf course in his youth, would like better grass, and sometimes suggest sodding the whole thing, and I just look at him to let him know that is CRAZY.

I hope no one minds if I go off topic and back to old gardening books and current Washington Post garden writer: when I began gardening in earnest (okay, like a fanatic, truth be told), I relied heavily on Adrian Higgins' "Garden Book". I have The Washington Star garden book too, but was influenced more by Adrian's enticing descriptions.

He made so many shrubs sound so beautiful that I wanted to try one of as many as possible, so I thought "harumph !!" when he recently wrote that "I've known plant geeks whose entire yards are random collections of favored flora. They are places that are wholly enthralling to their creators, but to no one else.".....but not so taken aback that I'll stop being a plant geek even if it results in a garden that's only enthralling to me...or so much that I'll stop being one of his fans!

LOL me too!