Yardening Fall 2013

I got all the weeding and planting done in the turtle garden yesterday. Will try to get the mulching done today.

WELCOME HOME HOLLY AND RIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Heh heh, silly me... first thing that popped into my head when I read your first 2 sentences... home from vacation and the word "bed" makes me think 'sleeping in ones own bed' and how nice it can be... then I saw the word "weeding" and my brain sorta just scrambled all up!! Hahahaaa!! Oooh, when you say 'bed', you mean "Bed"!! LOL!!!!!
Gosh, will you guys even unpack (then re-pack) before heading back out again!?!?

Bed? Did someone say bed?

Is that where YOU sleep on hot nights, Judy?

Beautiful! Where is that from?? G.

Now we have a big maple stump- I say it's crying out for a sunny bed around it....HA! After it it will not rot quickly and we don't want to fork over the $$ for stump grinding. THis also creates the question o f trying to recreate some shade for the nearby bed, or moving the few shade items there to another existing shade area. I should probably rethink my whole old vegetable garden area- a lot of it has become too shady for veg- but who's got the time? Maybe over winter when I'm itching for some outside work.

Congrats, Terri! That was a MAJOR effort, I'm sure. Good to look around and see it looking all spiffy.

Welcome home, Holly & Ric! Glad you missed a couple of really hot/humid days last week... I don't think it got much above 90 here, but the air was just awful, even when we brought out snowcone stuff the kids didn't last long outside.

I need to rethink my veggie location, too, especially the tomatoes... might make the bed behind the dining room into a tomato area next year, but if so then it's time to cut down that cherry tree that volunteered there. It's nice looking but totally in the wrong spot, and I missed my chance to move it while it was still small enough. I figured I'd let it go until it got in the way, and then chop it... it's time may have come.

I covered a tree stump with 2-3' of dirt and when planted it made a nice texture/feature in the garden. A small Japanese lace leaf maple was the focal point and it grew nicely.

I sure miss that garden although now I grow mostly veggies here, with just a few seed perennials for the birds (and bulbs which I love).

I got as far as getting 5 yards of mulch today, but my leg and lower back muscles are all cramped up and sore from the work I did yesterday, so I'll leave the mulching to another day. It sure does suck to be this out of shape. I keep putting off a regular stretching and work out regime, but I need to get serious about it if I don't want to feel this miserable every time I do anything in the garden. Oh well, it is about time for the Redskins kick off anyway...

Thank heavens for our neighbor Mr Chain saw ...he likes to refurbish any lawnmowers or chainsaws that come his way...he has mastered keeping these small engines running!

Sally---
Depending on how tall your stump is--I would put a 4' x 4' top on it,
or a round, old table-top from somewhere, and make a small table.
It could be handy when grilling or potting or just to put stuff on.

I always think that when people cut down trees, they should leave 2' or 3'
of the stump to do this . Very functional.
It would take YEARS for the stump to disintegrate--so, why not use it?

G.

I have read that you can dissolve a stump by drilling holes in it, filling them with powered milk (or cheap fertilizer), covering the stump with mulch or compost, and waiting a year. I am in the middle of trying this approach, but I didn't do a very good job of following the directions (didn't drill very deep holes, didn't use much milk powder, didn't put much compost on top) so if my attempt fails I can't blame the methodology.

---

I've been trying to ID a particular tall weed but haven't had any success yet on the plant ID forum, so if you would take a peek I'd be grateful. The problem is that the weed looks a lot like great blue lobelia until the lobelia flowers -- but I'd like to be able to pull out the weed early in the season and leave the lobelia. http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/1333465/

This message was edited Sep 17, 2013 8:20 AM

My grandfather used to burn the stumps down using hot coals. My mom has used this method even in her suburban neighborhood as it produces minimal smoke and has no open flames. I could ask her for the exact method if you are interested. It takes several days, maybe even weeks but it works. Might take longer since you are dealing with greenwood.

typwc -- that's fascinating -- I found a bunch of descriptions via Google. See, for example, http://yankeegardeninginsoutheasttexas.blogspot.com/2011/11/how-to-remove-stump-in-2-3-days-instead.html . I'd be concerned about pollution, so I don't think I'll try it. Plus apparently the roots can continue to burn underground....

My stumps aren't a big deal. Sally may feel differently about hers.

My mom is sort of paranoid about fires so if she thought it was safe, then I think it's safe as long as one follows common sense fire safety rules. As one of the commenters said: fire can only burn if there is oxygen to feed it, so the idea of the roots continuing to burn underground seems sort of bogus to me. I guess if you consider wood smoke a pollutant then don't do it, but it's probably less harmful to the environment than some other methods. Just my two cents.

To each his own.

lol am remembering my Alianthus tree stump about 3' in diameter which was torn down when the utility pole it was growing beside 'snapped'. Killed two cars and damaged two others.

I sliced it like a pie, and carved it like a turket with a chain saw and small bow saw and as more dried out I cut deeper. Those things resprout like crazy, but I was deermined to deny this bane any future in my yard. I cut through feeder roots as far down as I could, even digging down to get at them. I used a high pressure hose to wash away as much soil as I could from under and around it, chopping roots as I went. And I left it exposed and tried to redrown it every chance I had!

The following Spring almost half of it gave way but those volunteer seedlings continued to pop up along the spreadin underground roots for several years. Then I planted a rescued laurel bush in its spot and haven't looked back!

Not saying anyone should try this at home, but it is a great stress releaser!

Of course!

I still have sooo much transplanting left to do. I feel like half of my perennials are constantly being moved around, and only about half are in their "final" spot.

When Catmint came to visit she asked me how I figured out the layout of the garden. I think the answer is that I never did!

I still have some shade plants in the driveway because I can't figure out where to plant them. They just may overwinter there. I have been getting some weeding done since we got home but we really need to start on getting the Tropicals back into the house and GH.

'figured the layout of the garden'- what foreign language is that??

COLD night coming up tonight! Mid 40's....got blanket on my bed already..

I grouped all my coleus and begonias on the patio floor up against my grill
(good for wind protection) and covered them all with an old sheet.
Best I could do on such short notice....It will be OK.
I really do not want to start hauling things in yet as:
1--I am not ready--not organized in my mind...
2--it will be 80* again before the weekend.
3--After all---It is STILL September! This cold snap is NOT permanentl!

In my garden--
--I am mostly cleaning things up and pulling out half dead annuals
and some non-producing veggie plants.
--Cleaning all the dried leaves off of the DL's and Iris clumps--been doing this all along.
--Still collecting a few seeds--half my DR table is full....
--Took cuttings of all my Coleus and the Acalyphas 2 days ago--
so the remaining ones are at the mercy of the eather...time to let them all go!
--Need to mow my lawn asap...

There are some bigger chores i need to do--IF I get to it...Need a Guy for one of them.
Hey YOU there walking by! Yooo Hooo--care to come and help me out? ...:o)

Busy time of year. Gita

OH--a question---

Since I have not really grown Caladiums before--when do they need to be dug up?

Do you just let the corms air dry and then put them in a paper bag or something?

Tell me what you do. Thanks...G.

Gita,

I was unsuccessful with mine last year. It seems that most people simply leave them in pots and bring them in during the winter to a dark above freezing place. I plant mine out though, last year I tried to put them in pete in a plastic woven grain bag. Perhaps they weren't dry enough. I didn't have one survive.

I'll have to try something different this year. It is always worth a try!

Paul--

I think treating them like any bulbs/corms/rhizomes that are to be stored is best.

Air dry--completely! Store in an open box with a bit of dry Peat moss or
crumpled/shredded newspapers on top in a cool, dry place and forget them.

Saving anything potted up--over the winter is asking for trouble...like rot.
Don't you think they need to breathe while resting?
That is what I do with all my Canna rhizomes and Dahlias as well.
Come early spring--I may spray a bit of water on them now and then to remind
them to "plump up" a bit. Get ready for the haul!
Also--i DO know that you need to start caladiums quite early if you want them growing
by the time planting time comes. They also need good bottom heat to wake up and grow.

I will have several to deal with this winter....hope they all make it--as they cost good $$.

What are YOU doing in your garden at this time--Paul?
Ciao! Gita...bedtime....

Gita, I think I was talking to SSG and Judy about this at the swap. I tried digging my caladiums last year exactly the same as my EEs and they all rotted. I am going to try this method this year for overwintering my caladiums:

"When the tops of caladiums and tuberous begonias are
injured by the first fall frost, gently lift the plants and cut
back the stem to the soil line. Leave the ball of roots and
soil intact.
Place the soil and root masses in a dry, cool storage
area, and allow the tubers to cure for 2-3 weeks. Then
remove the balance of the soil, stalks, and roots, cut out
any rotted spots, and dust with fungicide."

There's an illustration on the original PDF which is located here:
http://www.hort.purdue.edu/ext/HO-085.pdf

I've done nothing in my garden lately except admire it briefly from a distance. I haven't even taken the coleus in like I said I would! Things have been too busy with school stuff and extracurricular activities (yes, a kindergartener with extracurricular activities).

Speaking of EEs the deer ate the leaves off this little guy today. Second time this season. Lost the name on it too, if anybody can ID it please speak up.

LOL SSG and Sally! I also ended up doing so much transplanting this summer that it left me wondering about planning, so it's nice to hear that I'm not the only one who hasn't had much chance to do that! :-D

I've also been trying to decide which annuals to try to save this year... I think most of the ones I really like are easily obtainable again next year, although I haven't seen much of the Exacum affine around, and mine has done so well this year I'm tempted to try overwinter it.

Cat--

The only annuals worth saving are the more expensive ones--the ones
sold as "Premium Annuals" at about $4 each. $3 at the wholesale GH I go to.
Anything you can buy in a market pack is not worth saving..

Karen:
Thanks for your advice on the digging and storing. Read the info in the link too.
I differ slightly when it comes to cannas.
I dig up the HUGE clumps (2 of my Cannas--the red and orange ones) that
they can make DO NOT just have the new growth buds near the base of the old stem.
This DOES hold true with dahlias! Gotta have a bit of the old stem for the root
section to grow out.
The Canna "pips" can be anywhere--all along the dug up rhizozmes.
Also--because the Canna clumps can be pretty massive (see picture) too much soil
adheres to them. It is a good idea to try to remove the larger clumps of soil
and then allow the whole root mass to dry somewhere in the sun outside--assuming
it is still warm enough to do so.
I think drying them in a "cool, dark area where the temps do not go above 50* "
is asking for trouble. Cold air--NO sun--Damp clump of roots = potential rot.

I lay my Canna roots out to dry on my picnic table, turning them over to dry both sides.
I also leave some of the soil attached as they rest for the winter in my shop.
This (so I learned) helps keep the rhizomes from drying out too much.
Also--at this stage (as well as in the spring) the root-clumps are very fragile
and will break apart if handled too much. You want at least THREE eyes on each
division to plant out in the spring. They DO break apart easily--and many times I end up
with these single-eyed smaller sections. These are the ones I pot up (they WILL grow)
and share at Swaps.

What they said in the article (link) above is unrealistic--about having to have a section
of the old stem attached to each division.

Look at this clump! It is from the red Canna that "wind" passed along to many of us
This is the top of my big, concrete bird bath--and one clump filled it.
Behind it are smaller sections that broke off in the digging up process.

The second picture is of my neighbor's Orange cannas. Also massive.

Gita

I dug up my sad-looking Berry Smoothie heuchera to transplant it, and it was dead. The stem broke off like it was a dried up twig. Southern Comfort died earlier this year, and these two are supposed to be two of the best varieties for our region.

This only means one thing... I have to buy them again. And transplant 7-8 other plants to make room for them.

Camint, the Kaylen begonia I got from you is supposedly hardy only because of its tuberous roots, but mine's too young to have a solid tuber. That means I have to dig it up again, and it's coming inside this winter! The only tropicals I'm overwintering indoors as houseplants are the Angel Wing and Dragon Wing begonias.

I didn't like the caladiums I got this year from Bill (washed out pink, and not hot pink as I'd hoped), so I won't be saving them.

Typ, I did the exact same thing, and my caladium bulbs didn't survive either. I'm looking forward to hearing more about your caladiums' survival!

I saved my caladiums a few years ago and they all made it -- but they grew back so much smaller than the prior year that they weren't worth the trouble.

Happy--

That makes me wonder if they should be fed right now to plump up
the corms???? Maybe with a load of Bulb food? or--some faster acting
fertilizer? How does Fish Emulsion work on bulbs?

Just wandering....can't hurt. G.

I don't know. I only tried to save those I had kept in pots. I didn't take them out of the pots, as I recall; I think I just saved them, pots and all. And they did fine -- but weren't very big. I tried to dig up the ones I planted directly in the garden -- but I either pierced or sliced them in half. Very frustrating.

Perhaps this is a question to pose for Bill the caladiums for less guy?!? Bill where are you!!? We need your input.

I have saved a few caladiums by just letting the whole pot soil and all dry out.

I don't think you want to feed NOW, you'll be putting nitrogen around them as they are going dormant- not good. WHat the plant doesn't use, the soil orgs will= fungus and rot.

I agree don't feed them. I either leave them in the pots or I take them out and store them in brown paper bags or cardboard shoeboxes.
For cannas I just knock some of the dirt off, don't wash just remove most of it and set them in plastic open trays. I use the ones that I use to carry the large soda bottles home from the store.

That's an interesting idea about premium annuals. These are annuals that either cost a little more or they are propagated only by cuttings, is that correct? I've been looking at my list of annuals, and also some perennials I have that seem borderline in zone 7, asking myself whether i should try to pot them up for the winter. A few are easy--e.g., I don't think it makes sense to overwinter the ordinary snapdragons. Others I'm not sure about. E.g., some of my herbs are annuals, but these seem easily obtainable in the spring and grow easily, so maybe I should harvest them and then get them again next spring? The celosia and cleome seem to grow like the dickens in my yard as volunteers so maybe they don't really need my overwintering help. ;-) Some seem to not overwinter well from what you all are saying--like the caladium. Others seem borderline for our zone and may not overwinter reliably even though they are supposedly zoned for us--e.g., the Begonia Kaylen that SSG mentioned. Mine is so beautiful and full and I would hate to lose it--although it has been planted since the spring and should be well established now. So how to make these decisions? Here is my list of annuals, and also some of the borderline zone perennials (I think I have more than this--I need to add 'zone' to my database).

ANNUALS
African Blue Basil Dark Opal Ocimum kilimandscharicum × basilicum
Alyssum (Sweet) Lobularia maritima
Asparagus Fern Sprengeri Asparagus densiflorus
Basil (Sweet) Ocimum basilicum
Basil (Variegated) Pesto Perpetuo Ocimum x citriodorum
Caladium Florida Sweetheart Caladium
Celosia (Cristata) Amigo Mix Celosia argentea var. cristata
Celosia Century Mixed Celosia argentea var. plumosa
Celosia Volunteer Celosia argentea var. plumosa
Cilantro Coriandrum sativum
Coleus Inky Fingers Solenostemon scutellarioides
Coleus Mocha Mint Solenostemon scutellarioides
Coleus Wasabi Solenostemon scutellarioides
Coleus Careless Love Solenostemon scutellarioides
Coleus Honey Crisp Solenostemon scutellarioides
Coleus Unnamed Sport Solenostemon scutellarioides
Daisy Million gold Melampodium paludosum
Dianthus Ideal Select Mix Dianthus chinensis x barbatus
Dianthus Floral Lace Crimson Dianthus chinensis x barbatus
Dill Anethum graveolens
Impatiens (NG) Divine Orange Impatiens x hawkeri
Impatiens (NG) Divine Mix Impatiens x hawkeri
Kalanchoe Calandiva Dark Pink Kalanchoe blossfeldiana
Lantana Landmark Citrus Lantana camara
Lemon Verbena Aloysia triphylla
Lobelia Laguna Sky Blue Lobelia erinus
Marigold (French) Durango Yellow Tagetes patula
Ornamental Pepper Chilly Chili Capsicum annuum
Ornamental Pepper Black Pearl Capsicum annuum
Parsley (curly-leaved) Petroselinum crispum var. crispum
Pentas Graffiti Lipstick Pentas lanceolata
Petunia Madness Rose Petunia x hybrida
Polka Dot Plant Rose Splash Select Hypoestes phyllostachya
Sage (Scarlet) Vista Red Salvia splendens
Snapdragon Snapshot Burgundy Antirrhinum majus
Snapdragon Snapshot Yellow Antirrhinum majus
Snapdragon Dwarf Magic Carpet Antirrhinum majus
Snapdragon Archangel Raspberry Angelonia angustifolia
Spider Flower Cleome houtteana
Vinca Titan Icy Pink Catharanthus roseus
Violet (Persian) Exacum affine

POSSIBLY BORDERLINE IN ZONE 7?
Begonia (Wax) Kaylen Begoniaceae
Sage Black and Blue Salvia guaranitica
Vervain Lollipop Verbena bonariensis
Wandflower Pink Lady Gaura lindheimeri
Canna lily from SSG
Ice Plant Tiffendell Delosperma
Ice Plant Ribbon Pink Delosperma

This message was edited Sep 18, 2013 7:06 PM

Catmint, it looks like some of the items on your list are true annuals (they die after about a year, even in tropical areas), and others are tender/tropical perennials.

Alyssum, basil, cilantro, etc., are annuals.

Parsley is a biennial. Dill is technically a biennial, but an annual in our climate.

Ice plants are hardy down to zone 5.

This little write up might be helpful! http://www.provenwinners.com/Overwintering

Cat--You sure have a "plethera" (an abundance of...) many plants.
I did not know what some of the are--but here is my suggestions for the ones i do know.

Scatter seeds now (Biennial)
Alyssum
Celosia
Dill
Cleome

Take cuttings of and root: (or treat as a houseplant)
All Coleus
Lantana (Ric does these in "Oasis"--used in fresh flower arrangements).
Most "Premium Annuals"--check out individually...
Begonias (which one do you have that you say is perennial???)
Other than "Begonis Grandis"--no other begonias are perennial.

Seed inside and grow until planting time
Basil
Cilatro
Ornamental peppers
Parsley (cheap to buy starts at veggie stands).
Snapdragons (a pain to seed and grow. Tried it this year--aand nothing
was worth the time and effort.)
Dianthus???? Do you have annual or perennial ones?
Melampodium (BUT--you can buy these in 6-packs for $2)

Bring in the whole plant and keep it as a houseplant all winter
Asparagus fern (VERY messy! It sheds needles indoors!) Needs very high humidity.
Kalanchoe--a good houseplant--keep on the dry side--and give full sun.

These are perennials--do nothing
Black and Blue Salvia (a bit tender--cover w/ some leaves)
Gaura

That is all I know from your list.

**I would never try to bring in perennials--as they need the cold to thrive next year.
**I also feel that hardly any annuals would do well indoors..seed or cuttings--maybe?

Gita

Gita, I really love foxtail asparagus fern, but you're right, they shed leaves ALLL winter when indoors. It got very messy.

I think alyssum is considered an annual.

Catmint, a lot of these herbs will also be offered at the spring swap, and seeds will be offered at the winter seed swap. :)

I agree with Gita and ssg- most of the things in your list are annuals - do NOT try to overwinter. Those they point out as possibly hardy, yes you might do something with. Asparagus fern, lantana, kalanchoe, wax begonia are the items I see you might bring in.
Melampodium self sows very easily.

thanks so much, SSG. Gita, and Sally!! That is all very helpful, as I have been sitting here feeling very puzzled by it all. This will be my very first winter with my garden and I'm feeling a little anxious about how things will do. E.g., should I mulch everything, or only some things? So, that's helpful to narrow down my list of annuals to overwinter. About a quarter of my plants are listed as annuals (the rest are perennials, shrubs, trees, vines, etc)--I did not realize I had acquired so many of them until I counted them out!!

SSG, thanks for the distinction between true annuals and tender perennials--that makes sense now that you explain it! :-) And thanks also for the link--it's good to know that some annuals just won't be able to make it indoors because of the difference in lighting conditions.

Gita, thanks so much for your very helpful and thorough list! The Begonia Kaylen is supposed to be hardy to zone 7, but maybe I should take a cutting for indoors (to be safe) plus leave some outside and see what happens. It is such a beautiful plant and has loved the spot it's in. The dianthus has been a little confusing for me, since some (e.g., 'firewitch') are marketed as perennials and others as annuals/tender perennials. But they are easily available, relatively inexpensive plants. That is also a good idea to allow some of them to seed inside for sowing again in the spring.

Sally, thanks for this very helpful summary: Asparagus fern, lantana, kalanchoe, wax begonia. I have really enjoyed all of these plants. The coleus is already potted up, so I'll focus next on potting up the asparagus fern, lantana, and kalanchoe, and take a cutting of the begonia Kaylen, just in case. I'm also glad to hear the melampodium self-seeds easily, as it's been such a bright spot in my garden all season. I also think I'll bring my ornamental peppers in to seed inside as Gita suggests (the Black Pearl especially is so pretty), and maybe also my angelonia Archangel Raspberry --which has grown to be so big and beautiful, looks wonderful next to my begonia Kaylen, and seems in a different category from the ordinary snapdragon I have.