Thanks for the suggestions, Critter, and welcome back from Disney!
The soil is already pretty rocky; I don't want to use rebar because someone could fall on it! Anyway, the problem isn't that the drainpipe is moving -- it is that the soil on top of the drainpipe, that is supposed to hide it, washes off.
I can't actually say that I've tried any plants there because it is all so new. My neighbor grew Miscanthus very successfully nearby, but doesn't want ANY Miscanthus now because the variety she had before was seedy. I have some Veronica spicata 'Glory' ROYAL CANDLES ready to pop in at the bottom of the hill, close to the street, but I don't think it is the right plant for the drain pipe area -- the drain pipe area is not a spot that would grab your attention, and it is hard to work on, so I'm looking for something tough and that will cover a lot of space so I don't have to fuss with maintenance of a lot of individual plants. I had planned to put Echinops in -- until I realized it has a tap root, which is probably not the best form of plant to put there since we may periodically need to "service" the drain pipe. If deer weren't an issue I'd put some nice daylilies there.
I had thought that if I put the same plant going down the length of the drainpipe, I would remember where it is -- the plants would serve as a reminder -- but Sally is right -- that could look silly. So maybe I'll just extend the plants I have without looking for a single plant for that application....
Summertime plant shopping
Donner, I agree that repeating plants in large numbers is the way to go. I tried to plant single plants in large stretches, but even so I don't think I made the "runs" long enough. And I did use many different plants -- mostly because I wasn't sure what was going to make it. Most of the "runs" were 9 feet long. The hill is pretty much all planted now, other than replacing dead plants, so I can't re-conceive it, but where I have just a few plants of one kind is definitely not as effective as long stretches. As plants die (and I've had plenty of that), I'm trying to go for longer "runs" -- but that isn't so easy to do in practice because I need to have the right replacement plants at hand, and I'm trying to only use plants from super discount sales. So I'm resigned to a cottage garden look. Actually, I like cottage gardens, so I may be fine with it! My husband and I go on "tours" of the yard every day to see what is new and different, and if I had just a few varieties of plants there wouldn't be so much to look forward to. My neighbors across the street, who will look at this much more than I will, will just have to lump it! They may wish the great hill of vinca and ivy were back!
I was also chicken -- I thought it would be dramatic to have three 9' stretches of Penstemon Husker's Red, for example, and it didn't occur to me to make the runs even longer.
What surprised me is that the ornamental grasses had a much higher casualty rate than perennials. I put most of the plants in over the fall and very early spring -- maybe ornamental grasses need to go in during a warmer season. Previously I had had plenty of experience with perennials but almost none with ornamental grasses. I've never had a problem with putting perennials in late (with a few known exceptions like Japanese Anemone). I just assumed the ornamental grasses would work because they worked so well in my neighbor's yard -- but they same to need more time to get settled before the cold weather hits. I'm learning!
Happy, those are really great photos to show the area and the slope of it. (by the way, that clump of beautiful delicate grasses on your neighbor's side of the line -- is that Hakonechloa? So gorgeous!! You show them in photos #1 and #2 in your last grouping of pics)... anyway, just wanted to share some ideas, maybe one or two might work for you:
Aegopodium, Archangel, Creeping Bellflower, Rose Campion, Euphorbia, Purple Loosestrife, Lamb's Ear, Spiderwort, perennial Verbena (like Homestead purple). My own personal experience with the Verbena is that it spreads beautifully in my area, but NOT "thuggishly"; everything else I've got growing near/around/through it seems to have NO competition at all, it behaves very respectably while still smothering the area with lush deep green foliage AND a flood of rich purple blooms. I have never heard of a plant that blooms and spreads so prolifically, and yet still allows so many others in to share the spotlight along with it.
As for the Aegopodium, I only grow that in containers 'cause I'm chicken. ;)
Anyway, just some ideas for you to consider. =)
Great suggestions, Speedie! They all do a wonderful job of covering ground.
It's tough to find that magic line between covering ground and not being thuggish.
Yellow Archangel- Lamiastrum- spreads and covers- once established it sends out runners at least a foot every year and roots at the tip. BUT its not evergreen. Same deal for variegated Vinca. (If anyone wants to try either let me know!!)
Speedie, nice suggestions except for the 'purple loosestrife' which the state of Md is trying to eradicate in this state and its invasiveness which we have discussed elsewhere recently...good choices for covering some ground. Personally, I'd like to see something more substantial there (like trees and shrubs or more grasses with some height.
Happy, what a difference to that side of your slope with your neighbor having removed those pines and grasses! I guess you get much more sun there now which has to have changed your planting plans. What will your neighbor be replacing the miscanthus with?
And, a crazy 'idea' (which I'm sure you have already considered and rejected) from the "if this was my problem, what would I do?" perspective.
The one plant that is 'tough as nails'. doesn't seed every where, can handle lack of water and tending, poor soil, able to hold soil in place. establishes quickly and reliably, is free and available in quantity on site is the ditch lily. I'd cover that 40'galvanized drainage pipe wash my hands and have a drink of wine while I no pressure contemplated a more 'uptown' solution when time, inspiration and funds or plants became available to upgrade a section.
Barring that, I'd save up for one of those pre-planted coir mats that I could just plant like a long rug that would hold the soil and plants in place until they were self-sufficient!.
Yes. yes, yes, I know that deer like ditch lilies, but for the time being I'd just trim off the flower stalks before sticking them in this year. Easy enough as they are about to flower now. Might also hire a local teenager to deter your neighborhood deer herd from using your yard as a major browse area, ie, Deny Access!
I also thought you might use ditch lilies as a place holder for 'plants that didn't make it'. So every square on your grid that has a daylily will need another plant or for the plants that do make it to fill in.
Might be easier than markers that get kicked around and lost.
Just me,
Judy
PS, I've still got six or more of those Knockout Roses if you'd like to try them! I'm trying to decrease my holdings of unplanted plants in anticipation of a move or at least a 'summer' in Vermont! Will be sending out a list of my plants that need new homes to all who will be at Casual Thursday this week at Sallygs.
This message was edited Jun 15, 2013 7:58 AM
I like the idea of using a tough & available plant as a "place holder" where plants don't make it... I think I will do that with tufts of liriope. If I see liriope, I know the spot is vacant, or at least just rented.
I was wondering if the soil was really washing off the top or if the pipe was migrating upward... we had one that did that, or seemed to, until we finally got it dug in deep enough.
Since the line for the pipe is curved and not straight, a stretch of plants that's all the same should look fine.
For the hill, I need plants that aren't remotely invasive, because it is very hard very hard work, to work on that hill.
Speedie -- My neighbor's grass -- there are a lot of clumps, so I want to be sure we are talking about the same grass -- is some kind of fountain grass (Pennisetum alopecuroides). I am guessing it is Hameln, but I don't know for sure and she didn't keep notes. I love the way it looks now -- I'm not as much in love with it when it "blooms" in the summer -- though I still like it then -- but I just love the way it looks when it is fresh and it appears to be running down the hill. It is maybe 2-2.5' tall. She is going to give me some divisions in the fall. It does look a little like the unvariegated Hakonechloa. I planted a lot of Hameln in the hope that that is what hers is, but it might be something larger. It doesn't seem to reseed.
I do have Lamb's Ear, Spiderwort, and Homestead Purple elsewhere -- Homestead purple might be just the plant to cover the pipe. I don't know how long-lived it is....
The aegepodium (unvariegated) I have tried to eradicate for 20 years without success -- I wouldn't wish it on my worse enemy. I've gotten rid of anything else I put my mind too, including bamboo (which was easy by comparison). So I wouldn't touch even variegated aegepodium with the proverbial 10-foot pole. Lamium is also too aggressive - the hill is too tough a spot to weed, so even if a plant is "easy" to keep in check, I don't want to take that on. My neighbors keep cautioning me that I am going to go rolling down the hill and end up as a speedbump in the road.
Lamium, rose campion and euphorbia are all pretty seedy as well, based on my experience in the backyard. I put one rose campion in the front just for fun, but I'm going to watch it like a hawk.
Coleup: I don't want trees on my neighbor's side, because I am enjoying wallowing in the only bit of sun on my property. I am so grateful to her for taking out the pines.
I don't want to do any more ditch lilies. The entire length of the bottom of the hill is ditch lilies -- we had to pull out huge garbage cans full of it just to restrain it when we planted the rest of the hill. It is the orange bloom in the bottom of some of the photos. I don't mind it -- it lends a nice bright green to the area -- but we don't usually get any blossoms because of the deer (there was a controlled deer kill in the part near us the summer, so we don't have the deer population we usually do for the moment). (You had asked me for some last summer and I dmailed you several times about it but didn't hear back so I pitched those I had -- if you want any, I can bring you as many as you like, but you probably don't want them now because of your move.)
I'm looking forward to your list of plants! Roses aren't the right fit for the hill, though, because of the thorns -- I have to grab on to plants to keep my balance.
Critter -- you have a point -- I could put a row of liriope right on top of the pipe to mark where it is. Then any perennials I plant on either side will hide the liriope but we'll have a marker for the pipe. We just (yesterday) had the pipe dug a bit deeper down into the ground.
The big news (for us) is that my neighbor is hoping I can take out a tree stump at the top of the hill, because it is ugly -- but it is at least 3' across (we just took the tree down a year ago because it was rotting). She thought we could just burn it, but I'm sure Montgomery County wouldn't be keen on that. Professional stump removal will cost a fortune, and probably damage neighboring plants. We could try using saltpeter, but I think that is not a "nice" chemical and it would probably take too much and too long to get rid of it. If you want to see a photo of it (no reason you should) it is at the middle of the top of the frame in photo #3 (the middle picture) in the second set of pictures I posted. I am currently using it as a table for plants waiting to be dug in. I think I may plant a couple Lesperdiza "Gibraltar" right behind it to flop over the trunk and hide it.
Beautiful day -- time's a-wasting!
Maybe Nepeta Walker's Low to cover the pipe? Are both Walker's Low and Verbena Homestead Purple long-lived perennials? I don't want to commit to anything short-lived.
I'm both relieved and surprised that Tawny Daylily is only a listed noxious weed in one state (WI)
I hope we figure out a few good choices soon, so you can focus on getting and propagating those, and not have too many different things going on.
I'd view that stump as a focal point & an opportunity... I love stumps or big rocks in the landscape. Maybe a clematis or two to scramble over it...
I'd do something similar, given the prominent front placement. Grow things over it or placed on it for some years which will help it rot. Driiling holes into will help too, make channels for rain to soak it. Bear in mind ,when it starts going,I think the area will sink for years as the stump rots.
I remember Alan Summers--who was a local gardening Guru here on radio (still is).
Sat. mornings--I was glued to the radio from 7-9AM. I got to the point that when people asked
questions--I already knew what he would answer. His advice was pretty repetitive.
Here was his solution for letting tree stumps rot away.
Drill as many lg. holes as you can. Fill them with powdered milk and then cover the stump
with mulch. Then wait.....and wait....and wait....
Your stump, Happy, may be too big to cover up with mulch--but you can still drill the
holes and fill them with powdered milk....must be something that initiates rotting......
Just another suggestion....G.
Agree with Jill and Sally. I'd put some pots on the stump if the top is not sloping too badly. If it is hollow, fill it with soil and use it as a planter for annuals :o).
Oh Heavens to Betsy Judy, I had no idea that Purple Loosestrife is invasive in MD, YIKES!!! OK, I take it back, not suggesting that one. < =/
I hear around that the Purple Homestead Verbena is a short-lived one, and to be honest, I haven't had it long enough to know from personal experience yet in my bed. This is only the 4th season for mind, and so far so good. They would do PERFECTLY on a hillside (ie: erosion control) because they can't tolerate overly-wet soil conditions, however, there are a few "picky" points about them that you should know. They require LOADS of sunlight (6-10 hours a day), they do better drying out than constantly moist, and they bloom a lot better if you can give 'em a pruning during their growing season. A weed-eater works just fine for that, believe it or not.
I have wished I had a planter-stump.
8 ^)
The Verbena could be a good idea- to at least fill some area while the whole plan is growing in.
I like the stump -- I use it as a table -- It is absolutely level and huge and the spots of rot are quite small -- so I have no druthers to get rid of it. Critter, I agree with you! But my neighbor has been really helpful -- she just took out three trees at my behest - so I'll at least find the cost of getting it chipped out. I want to encourage the spirit of cooperation! Like all neighborhoods, there are some clashes in ours and I want to be part of the solution, etc., etc.
Gita -- the milk powder approach might work over a long period of time, but I'd rather either have a nice flat table or no stump -- I don't want a slowly decomposing mess there! I found this recipe on-line: http://www.viette.com/v.php?pg=135. and http://landscaping.answers.com/trees/natural-backyard-remedies-how-to-remove-a-tree-stump-with-milk Hmm, now I'm thinking maybe I will.... This recipe says just one or two years ... There are some smaller stumps in the back yard I'd like to get rid of -- I'll definitely try this approach on those. But the tree in the front yard that we took out was a huge oak.
Speedie -- I'm glad to learn that Homestead Purple isn't long-lived -- or to be more precise, I'm sorry it isn't long-lived, but glad to have that information -- I've got some of those plants in the front yard now (different spot) -- but I don't think I'll add any more.
Sally -- The stump isn't actually that prominent for me -- I think it is quite prominent for my neighbor though.... I didn't realize the area would sink as it rots, though -- the trunk is a significant part of what holds up that part of the hill, so that might not be a good thing. I need to discuss with my neighbor.
Happy Father's Day to the Dad's out there -- I'm off to get ingredients for dinner and to start getting ready! Last night we went to Baltimore for dinner at a really wacky and delicious restaurant, Papermoon - they have superb milkshakes -- Lee and Darryl each had a salted caramel milkshake to which they asked that espresso be added and it was the best thing I've had in forever -- but as an appetizer??? -- and then to see West Side Story with the Baltimore Symphony Orchestra accompanying the score -- it was a complete hoot. I cried, as usual.... We're having crab cakes for dinner.
oak- tree- GUessing it will be years before any significant rot. I'm talking wayy down the road, the root system eventually rotting slowly. Judging based on a maple stump in moms yard.
That's what I'm thinking too, even with the milk. And I'm not sure I want years of a decomposing stump. I wish I knew someone who had tried this approach (milk powder) on a huge healthy stump.
OMG Papermoon Diner! What a fun little place. I have some fond memories of late nights there. Haven't been there in ages though.
I have nothing to add to the stump grinding discussion, except that the ground up bits of an old stump did wonders for my clay when used as sheet mulch. The worms just gobbled it up and fluffed up the clay beautifully. I added some used coffee grounds to help it break down and add some nitrogen.
THe milk, or coffee grounds- would be for nitrogen. Cheap lawn fertilizer would be the way to go- but people like home remedies. You can get a hole bag of cheap lawn fert the same as I paid for a box of powdered milk- stuff seems kinda high.
OK- Leave the stump undrilled, keep it fresh as long as possible, and budget for removal years away. Done.
NEXT ITEM...
Maybe a few shrubby things placed to hide stump from the neighbor.
With all the perennials- do you think some low growing evergreens would be wise addition? I once read that front yard design 'should' include evergreens to keep things semi live thru winter.
I have a small 'sweet box' - Jill gave a bunch away once from ? , seemed like it makes a creeping low mat of nice fresh green.
Maybe it was my wintercreeper I wished I thought of for moms hill
I love sweet box - I buy it every time I see it at a reasonable price -- but it is very very slow growing. Glacial.
What about Lesperdiza "Gibraltar"? That is supposed to drape nicely, and I have two babies. I thought I could plant it behind the stump, and let it drape over the stump.
We have tons of wintercreeper in the back -- I keep pulling it out -- I don't want to introduce it to the front. And vinca, but I like vinca.
glacial lol
Not familiar w Lesperdiza
Mobot says -- http://www.missouribotanicalgarden.org/gardens-gardening/your-garden/plant-finder/plant-details/kc/d760/lespedeza-thunbergii-gibraltar.aspx -- "This bush clover cultivar is a deciduous shrub or sub-shrub with an arching, fountain-like habit. When cut to the ground in early spring, it will rapidly grow up to 5' tall and 10' wide in a single growing season. Features trifoliate, bluish-green leaves and drooping racemes (to 6" long) of rosy-purple, pea-like flowers which are grouped into large, pendulous flower panicles (up to 2' long). Blooms late summer to early fall. In full bloom, the flower-laden stems arch downward with a fountain-like grace, often to the point of nearly lying on the ground.... Annual growth produces spectacular arching flower stems and late summer bloom for the perennial border or shrub border. Pendulous flowering stems display well when grown on slopes. Effective when massed, but needs lots of room." Aspenhill is a big fan of Lespedeza. I've never said the word out loud!
Got a surprise package in the mail on Sat. Dear Ric bought me 3 miniature heuchera. Blondie, Coco and Sweet Tart. Will post a few pics when they get a bit bigger too little to get much of a picture of them.
http://www.hostasdirect.com/mini-heuchera
Those are really cute!
My HD got in a slew of new hybrid Hostas....They are selling very well--
I picked up several and hope to take them to the "Casual Thursday" at Sally's this Thursday.
These Hostas all have so much white on them. Very pretty...
There are 4 different kinds.Attaching a picture of the ones I bought.
From left:
First three--"Fire ans Ice"
Next two--"Moonstruck"
Two smaller ones (they will grow to 15")--"Hotspur" and "Lakeside Cupcake"
They are on sale right now for $2.50 for a lg. 4" pot. teg. price--$3.98.
You may want to go get some......G.
I bumped into this on Amazon (I was looking for a new sprinkler). I don't need it because I don't have deer except in the front and there I have only planted plants that the deer don't like -- but it sounds like a great idea for those of you who do: http://www.amazon.com/Orbit-62100-Enforcer-Activated-Sprinkler/product-reviews/B009F1R0GC/ref=cm_cr_pr_top_recent?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=0&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending
Yeah, BUT......
Having all that water sprinkled on my garden after dark will, imminently, lead to a lot of
mold and mildew and rot of my plants.
NOT recommended.....not by me--anyway......but then, I don't have deer problems....
G.
The sprinkler might work if you have only a small area to protect.
My son and his family moved to a new home. I have begun plant shopping again. Lots of Clematis, Butterfly Bushes, Dwarf Reblooming Lilacs, Crape Myrtles, Red Java Weigela, Quince, and other shrubs. Of course I'll be digging up plenty of stuff from my garden to bring over. Almost all of the on line rose vendors are finished for the season except for Chamblees. They have just a couple that we'd be interested in. We'll have to wait for spring for Palatine and Reagan.
Gita: The sprinkler is motion activated -- it only comes on when something moves. It doesn't run all night. So I don't think it would sprinkle too much -- unless you had a really big animal problem. I have heard that deer learn where they are repelled by netting, etc. (and maybe by the sprinkler), and they don't return even after the netting is removed, at least for a while.
I've heard that same thing Happy -- about deer not returning to an area from which they have been previously blocked off. Sort of a "muscle-memory" type of thing, like tying a horse (or was that an elephant?) to a tiny tree-branch or stick in the ground will hold it after it has learned that the "tied off" feeling will keep them from running away.
Not that I've tried it or anything, but I would tend to agree about the intermittent spraying, even at night, not being enough to cause major mildew problems. I think of it this way: God waters our gardens for us plenty, with rainfall at night. If we're not afraid of a little night-time rainfall, then the occasional squirt from this thing a couple times a night shouldn't pose a big problem either... I wouldn't think.
Quite honestly, I think it sounds like such a good idea that I put one on my wishlist, 'cause I am really tired of the neighborhood cats and dogs using my 'Big Bed' as a litter box! (and a side note: I recently saw a "For Sale" sign in front of the house where lives the worst perpetrators of letting their little dogs out and roam freely, to use other yards as a potty... tsk tsk tsk, and yet YIPPEEEE at the same time.) =)
Seriously need a new thread- since we can't stop shopping, give me a minute
New thread
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/1319491/
This message was edited Jun 19, 2013 6:46 AM