PLANT PROPAGATION - THE BASICS - MARCH 2013

Pughbear7 must be blowing around Oklahoma because he left us here to fend for ourselves. We miss him and hope he soon lands and returns to his thread.

We welcome all new members as well as any old timers from DavesGarden.

Hopefully some of the lurkers will join in and help us find answers and share your propagation experiences with us. There is always something new to learn. What better way to do it than here.

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http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/1294079/

Please check in so we are sure you made the trip safely.

ok.....IT WORKS. I am here in windy old NJ today. Waiting for the nor'easter to blow itself out and head on North or wherever it is going.

It is rainy and very windy and the temperature here is about 34 deg. We are awaiting snow.

A good day to think Spring and plan for some new plants and seeds. Let's talk about your Spring plans for your garden. Let's talk about what you already have and what you want.

Since I am about the only houseplant person here, if you have any houseplants you want to talk about, now is the time. I am getting itchy to get some ideas for patio plants myself. The houseplants will soon become patio plants and I also want to do some container plants this year that are different. Any ideas? Please share.

I'm here but hubby needs the laptop, since I have not yet ordered a new modem for my desktop....

So I am just checking in. It snowed overnight, and rained as well. There is not much on the ground now, but it is too cold and wet to work outside. I have a quilt to finish and then I can get to seed-starting as I am very late with that.

I have ordered some plants this year. Most of them to go into my new shade garden...to go with the plants I already have and will be moving from the north side of the house. I also got another hydrangea. I should have pulled it onto the back porch, as it was in bloom, even though small. Yesterday I got a variegated ceanothus to go in front of the house. I will dig out the chamaecyparis as it is named threadleaf, but looks threadbare!

I am going to take cuttings of this ceanothus. Has anyone here done this? I want more of them in the landscape. I will have to drown it in deer repellant before planting it as they do browse on it, even though they are "supposed" to be deer-resistant.

I am only watching still have some things going , I would pic some of my efforts only that can wait , yes i have tried iris before too! My hopes at the moment are a couple of cuttings and a toothed Daylily..

You can't hide from me, I always find you ha ha Not sure what is going into the yard this year, but then I need to try to figure it out soon don't I. Hard to do at 20 degrees or lower with snow Anyway, I will be here off and on until my vision clears,. Huggs, Lee

I am here and brough my last message with me.

I came across information regarding pollinating irises that I saved in Word. There was a tip in there that I had missed. Instead of Peroxide, the writer who produces 1500 irises from seeds every year, uses bleach. It is 10 parts water to 1 part bleach .Here is how he does it.

"... the seeds are covered with a 10 % solution of bleach for 1/2 hour. (10% solution created by mixing 1 part bleach with 10 parts water) Pour off the beach solution and rinse quickly with water a couple of times. The bleach treatment is to reduce the mould population that will want to grow on the wet seeds during the next stage, which is refrigeration (stratification)"

I don't have any problems with iris seeds, just daylily seeds sometimes. The bleach bath would work with any seeds. I have a few seeds that hasn;t sprouted and they will have a bath tomorrow.

Blomma, hydrogen peroxide is a bleach too. It doesn't look like he was specific as to Clorox, etc. So I would think peroxide would be fine.

JB, No, I am still working with my houseplants. I just got a box of them from a DGer in GA. It is so much fun to get things like that. I hope they do good. I got a variegated Aloe, and a really cool plant that is like a Sansevarius, Snake plant, or Mother-in-law's-tongue? Remember those? Well there were about 7 or 8 of them in a pot about 4 or 6 inches and the tallest one was about 7 inches tall. They were so healthy and beautiful. They have to be the same family. Don't know if they are the same thing and were just that size because they were crowded or why. Then there were 2 different begonias that looked like Angel wings. But one was deep burgundy on the underside of the leaf. And then Alocaccia Black Magic I think she said. The cold ht hit and killed the leaves but they should come out of the roots.

All houseplants to me anyway. And then Bob told me that my little lace leaf green Maple in the pantry is getting green buds on the branches. It is too cold to put it out here, so don't know what to do with it. Hate weak growth.

Pretty good Blomma. We crossposted and I was responding to yours. Jen

Jberger
Have you considered Datura inoxia (moonflower) plants for your patio. Although there are several different types, according to the color of the blooms, none more fragrant than D. inoxia with white blooms. It has a heavenly scent. Open at dusk and remain open until the following mid-morning. It seem to glow. Remains open all day when cloudy. Once starting, it is never out of blooms except in climates that receive frost. Although a perennial in zone 8, and southwards, treat as an annual in the North. It will bloom first year from seed, often 8 weeks from sowing. Can be carried over in a greenhouse or dormant in a cool basement.

A great tub plant. My daughter grows it in a 14" tub near her patio so she can enjoy the nightly perfume. Grows to 3 ft, and as wide. It boasts stout branches with gray-green, heart-shaped leaves to 6 or more inches long. Fast-growing once it begins to grow. Bears 2" or more in diameter of spiny seed pods late summer.

There are also double blooms of yellow if purchased from a seed company, like Parks. Otherwise they don't come true from seeds if more than one variety are grown.

Jnette
I would think that if he meant Peroxide, he would have stated that instead of bleach. I have tried it with Peroxide and still lost seeds so I am trying bleach as in Clorox. Hospitals used bleach to disinfect, not Peroxide so I have more faith in that. We shall see.

That is a beautiful datura option! I'm originally from Hawai'i, so I have a special place in my heart for fragrant white flowers; piikake, stephanotis, frangipani, awapuhi, and many more.

lanakila
And you left??? Yes it is beautiful. Thank youYou can grow it in NC. I had a stephanotis years ago, another that is fragrant.

lanakila, are you saying you started Stephanotis from seed??? I would love to have one of those. JB, those would be a great plant for you to sell. Jen

I love Daturas too, I have some seeds soaking now. Tomorrow they'll get the Deno treatment. Is the single white the only fragrant one? I have a double white, D Black Currant Swirl, and D Metel La Fleur Lilac. Am I completely missing that yummy perfume?!

Pam

Pfg
Daturas are the only seeds that do best sown in seed mix. I tested my seeds with Deno, no luck. I sowed them in seed mix. They sprouted in 3 weeks and now they are growing nicely. One is 5" tall. Will bring it over my daughter's who have a sunny porch that is heated. I don't have room with all the DL growing. They are beginning to graduate from the 6-pack on to a 3" foam pot.

Datura inoxia is the most fragrant of them all. My daughter's favorite that she grows every year. My favorite is a cross between D. inoxia x D. metel. "Yellow Ballerina" from Parks. They cross pollinate without human help. I also have D. metel "Purple Ballerina" from Parks, which I grew 1 year. I have no idea what it would look like since I grew inoxia at the same time.

1 to 3] D. metel "Yellow Ballerina". It can have both double and single blooms on same plant from seed.
4 to 5] D. metel "Purple Ballerina"

"Black Currant" is similar I think to my Purple Ballarina. My daughter grew D. Metel La Fleur Lilac one year and neither of us liked it. The double blooms are not as fragrant as inoxia.

I decided to grow the yellow and inoxia this year. I have a spot where I can plant them.

I have noticed that only D. inoxia will have all green stems. Yet some seeds produce plants that have the maroon color associated with the other 2 varieties. Still, others have maroon stems turning to green as it grows. I have seedlings that show that.

I love the Purple Ballerina, it's beautiful. You're right, it looks a lot like the pictures of Black Currant. I'm experimenting this year. I've only ever grown the white before, and last year was the first time from seed. I did soak and Deno, and got pretty good germination in 12-15 days. Maybe the other varieties are more difficult? Or maybe soaking makes a difference?

My one problem last year was that a few of the seeds got stuck on the seedlings and needed to be teased off before the seedling gave up and died. I read that spraying with water first would make it easier not to break the stem, and it worked.

I know what you mean about no room. I have so much more to get going over the next few weeks. I got a little carried away with perennials this year. I really enjoyed the challenge and the successes. The failures, oh well, just have to shrug it off and try again next year. Just as well, I'd have to move out if everything made it!

You can definitely start Stephanotis from seed. It is very easy when the seed is fresh. At the moment I have some old seeds sown and they aren't looking very promising.

w

WOW. SOME GREAT IDEAS. I am going to see about seeds. You all know I can not grow seeds. I need to buy plants or cuttings. Come on here. Help this old lady. Don't they come in pots of plants???? Must you always start them with seeds? Crap.

If you can grow cuttings-- I can't!-- seeds are easy. For me the self-watering setups work great, take all the stress out of it. Peroxide for damping off and cinnamon for gnats and I'm home free. Of course when you get into some of the more esoteric types the whole thing changes...

Pam

Pam, what is the self watering set ups? Where do you get them? Sounds like that is something I need. I always overwater since I usually keep them in the GH and water with the other plants. Maybe I need to work on changing that. This is a good time since I am just waiting for cuttings to grow before I add more items to my internet stores.

lanakila have you tried using peroxide on those older seeds? I think it was 2004 that I first found the thread where so many of really knowledgeable people were discussing the peroxide use. It was so interesting, and they were saying that it helped germinate old seeds.

I saw that thread bumped up a few months ago, I was hoping people would keep it going. But, haven't seen it in a while. Maybe I should have done it myself, but maybe I was the only one that was so impressed with it. :0)

lanakila have you tried using peroxide on those older seeds? I think it was 2004 that I first found the thread where so many of really knowledgeable people were discussing the peroxide use. It was so interesting, and they were saying that it helped germinate old seeds.

I saw that thread bumped up a few months ago, I was hoping people would keep it going. But, haven't seen it in a while. Maybe I should have done it myself, but maybe I was the only one that was so impressed with it. :0)

I am trying to add that it also was used to germinate hard to start seeds. Jen

Pam, I found the self watering trays. Thanks for telling me there was such a thing. JB

Oh good. There are several sources... I like the ones from Indoor Gardening Supplies, they have the Perma-nest trays I like, much sturdier than the standard trays. They sell ttays, grids and matting packaged together as a kit. Risers for the grids are sold separately, and are just 1.5" sections of PVC pipe you put in the tray under the grid. The matting hangs down into water in the tray, and can last up to 2 weeks depending on how thirsty the babies are and how strong the lights are.

http://indoorgardensupplies.com/product/watering-devices/self-watering-kit/

I also use some from Gardener's Supply, they come complete, also ver sturdy and a little bigger than the standard 1020 tray.

http://www.gardeners.com/Self-Watering-Tray/38-561,default,pd.html?start=1&q=Self%20watering%20trays

In the pic, it's on the bottom shelf, the white ones above are my new Perma-Nest.

Hope this helps!

Pam

Gardeners supply is where I found them and as soon as I return from town (in this snow storm) I will order the APS starter kit for $49.95. That way it gives me everything I need and although I have trays here I doubt if I could put anything together that would do as well. I may as well spend the money and see if I can do it if I do it correctly.

APS is also a good system, some people here swear by it. I used it many years ago successfully. When I was setting up here after a long hiatus I didn't find it right away and ended up with other options I like as well. I've always been a weekend gardener, and in the old days I did a lot of traveling for work. Self-watering has always been a necessity.

Peg. once the seeds sprout, how long do you leave the dome on them. I have some little seeds in a plastic container that I never thought would sprout since they were old, but they did and now I do not know what to do with them. How do you know when to remove the top?

I always use the dome type of starter for mine, and I just watch the plants. When they look good and sturdy, with at least 4 leaves (2 sets) I remove it during the day, and put it back on for the night,. Then after a week or so of that, I take it off completely. Kinda like hardening off inside,. Works for me anyway,. Huggs, Lee

Thanks Lee.

I'm less patient. Once they're up for a couple or few days, they're out. Mainly because I have something else waiting in the wings for the space, but I also think ambient temps are a factor, and it's not all that cold outside the dome here in the city. As long as the babies don't dry out or catch a chilly draft, they're OK.

Thanks Peg.

JB, I had another thought about your watering--maybe a spray bottle would help. lightly misting and then water from the tray. Overwatering is worse than drying out. I found that when they get dry and I then water them, they stand right back up, yes it stresses them a little, but overwatering kills them. Spray a little a couple of times a day. Greenhouse watering with a mister on the hose will also work. When they are under the dome, you don't need as much water because the dome holds moisture kinda like a rain forrest. Sometimes I tap the top of the dome and it is just like it is raining on the babies. At least this is what I have had luck with. I also use peroxide when spraying and watering from the tray, I have been told it adds oxygen to the soil, don't know, but it does work. Hope this little bit will help,. Huggs, Lee

HAPPY BIRTHDAY JEN

I am going to plant some pepper and turnip seeds in my starter kit and also some in the soil. We will be in the mid 80s by the end of next week. Just an experiment to see what happens. I purchased some seeds for those lunch box peppers. Yellow, red and orange small. I love them. The turnips are the snacking turnips. Once I purchased them at a farmers markets and I thought they were white radishes.

We had rain today. Tomorrow I am planting my tomato plants but they are being purchased from the nursery.

Good luck everyone with your seeds. Hugs, Sharon

It's too soon for tomatoes here...much too cold. The big box stores have them, but I can wait. I did not start mine from seed this year. I MAY just buy some starts as this year got off to a rocky start.

JBerger.
The dome is only needed for germination to prevent the soil from drying out and keep it evenly moist. If seedling are under domes too long, it takes time for them to go without. They have to be acclimated indoors to dry air. I tend to think they get spoiled and won't use their roots to gain moisture since they can absorb moisture through their leaves when under a dome. I stopped using a dome longa ago for that reason.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Your 2 cents are worth more than mine. I just said what has worked for me and how I did it. Didn't mean to step on anyone's toes. I have just experminted over the years. Some things have worked, some haven't. Has anyone visited Charley's Greenhouse? That is where I got my starters and my lights. Located in Wa state, but they have a website. I have done business with them for about 10 years or so and am very happy with everything I have received from them. Lee

It is almost laughable that all the gardening I have done over the years I still can not grow plants from seeds without killing most of them. I am determined to learn since there are some plants I really like and seeds seem to be the way to go. With my neighbors having a farmers market we share a lot of things. So, she usually does the seeds and I reap the harvest when the plants are already grown. I just want to learn myself ....that and starting African Violets are my two projects for the Spring. I planted three leaves. Each one in a different medium and we will see what happens. They are all in the same plastic covered container. I sit here with my instructions and patiently wait my results of my labor. LOL Have a good day and do not stop with the advice.

I think the more input we have on ways to do things the better because then people have the opportunity to try the different methods and use what works best for them and their zones. So, keep the information coming please. Thanks. Have a good day. JB

I have always read that once the seeds have germinated and leaves appear, to take the dome off. However, I also believe that everyone's area is different. Humidity wise. Not only where you live, but how warm you keep your house,(or wherever you have them) type of heat, etc. All make a difference. I like Lee's idea of spraying with a mist bottle and watering from the bottom. However. I still use peroxide in the water. Think it helps keep the over-watering and rotting down.

JB ~ There is also a seed germination forum with many experienced seed-starters.