For Disney visitors past and present....

At the risk of becoming a lightning rod for this highly sensitive issue, may I make a couple suggestions?

In all probability, we will continue to have "refugees" (an uncharitable term, but I think you know what I mean) from GW....and some of them will have their own war stories of unexpected and involuntary visits to Disney.

Like those of you who experienced seemingly arbitrary rules at GW, these newcomers are looking for an alternative place to do their "virtual gardening". And initially they may also feel the need to vent.

Their healing process can be helped by us if we let them vent. If we post replies telling them (in essence) to "get over it", that will only add to their frustration. If we rehash our own horror stories, it fans the flames (for the newbies and those who feel it's just "more of the same old GW bashing")

All the threads with venting can seem very negative to newcomers, and to those who have "been there, done that." So here's my suggestion:

1. If you've vented, go back and re-read your own messages, and consider editing them in part or in whole. Let bygones be bygones.

2. Whichever side of the GW issue you fall on, when you see a new DG member venting, you can welcome them to DG and let them know they can have a very positive experience here. Or you can choose to ignore the posting entirely, and let it die a natural death.

Either action helps DG rise above the fray, and keep this garden a positive place for all of us.

Thanks, go_vols. The problem is, a lot of people come to Dave's Garden after feeling abused by "that other site". Their feelings are hurt, and they are not altogether certain that they didn't do anything wrong.

By coming here and telling their side of the story, I think a lot of folks are just looking for people to tell them that they are okay and that they didn't do anything wrong.

The good news is that Dave's Garden is quickly closing the size-gap between us and "them". Soon we will be bigger than them, and we will not have to deal with this issue as often. People don't get abused here.

About every 3 or 4 weeks, a new thread is opened on this topic, and it quickly escalates into a firestorm of opinions, stories, and raw feelings. This is healthy, in my opinion, for reasons stated above. However, when the thread has run its course, or it the thread turns away from a healthy discussion, I wil exercise my power as dictator of Dave's Garden to move those threads away from public view.

I did this a few minutes ago with the latest thread titled "disney???". It was getting out of hand.

Another thing... if you don't want to see posts about GardenWeb, just avoid the "General Discussion" area. That's the only forum where GardenWeb discussions are allowed.

Best,
Dave

This is me standing up and clapping () () () () well said. LIsa

[ Removed by member request. - Admin ]

Just "My OPINION",if it still counts.Dave the answer IS NOT TO AVIOD a forum,but just maybe a place so folks can vent on THIS subject.It continues to creep into your house,build it a room,and add an extra peephole...

A good name 'The Outhouse'!!!

kdc

It seems that more and more fuel is being added to the already blazing fire.

Making a special forum (or other area) for the specific purpose of discussing this subject would only encourage more of the negative kind of discussion.

Re-read the message I posted above. Discussing GW can be very healthy if done properly. When it gets away from proper, I will step in. The General Discussion forum is around specifically for items of discussion just like this.

Dave

[ Removed by member request. - Admin ]

Calm down, Karma. :) We're all adults here. Let's encourage proactive and positive discussion. I'll deal with negative and hateful discussions.

Dave

I really enjoy all of the different gardening forums I participate in, including GW, DG, Timeless Roses and a few others. I have never had any problems directly with Spike, nor do I have a problem with people venting about their mistreatment. I have used the 'edit feature' to remove remarks I decided were nonconstructive. I do remember some time ago a post with a link where someone had set up a website to discuss GW and Spike, shortly after that it disapeared, I assume Dave decided it was inappropriate. We don't need a new forum just for this purpose, that would be a mistake, it would be giving this situation more power and importance than it deserves, and quite simply, 'This too shall pass'. Its sort of like a divorce, its so upsetting and all consuming at the time, your so angry and feel victimized, but as time passes it just doesn't matter anymore, you get on with life. Eventually as the balance of power shifts thats exactly whats going to happen. It is disturbing that certain people from GW came over here and were 'trollish' Were they really trying to cause problems or did they just see things differently? Maybe a little of both. The difference is that GW is a struggling business, I can easily understand why the owner of that business would feel threatened, perhaps with good reason. Daves right, if you don't wish to read or participate in discussions about GW then just don't do it, censorship would be disasterous, and would only add more fuel. Its also one of the reasons so many are unhappy with the other site, you can't say this, or ask that, I don't think thats what we want here. I'm more than willing to smooth somebodies ruffled feathers, or lend an ear, I was slightly irritated that my main ISP was banned over there, but I have two others, so I just laughed it off. Eventually thats what all the 'refugees' here will do, with a little help from all of us.

Marlowe, That was everything I would have liked to have said, but just didn't know how! Great job! Lisa

Being banned from GW is a form of rejection and rejection stings. I do think it's quite therapeutic for people to vent, but after giving it some thought, I almost wish we could just let the GW/Spike subject drop.

Don't get me wrong-- I was furious at the time I was banned, and I vented on here as best I could, and I believe others should do the same if they feel so inclined. But being that angry at someone gives them a tremendous amount of power over you and your life, and I don't think any of us want to hand Spike that kind of control over us, do we? I imagine it inflates his sad little ego to know that we are all over here talking about him all the time. I have given this subject much thought over the past several weeks, and feel that I can put it into a much healthier perspective than I had at the time I was banned.

Dave, I am glad that you have given us the ability to edit our posts, and we can always go back and delete what we have written if we no longer feel that that type of post reflects our current state of mind. Perhaps self-censorship is the key. However, I trust that you will do whatever is necessary to keep Dave's Garden a happy and buoyant place, even if that means deleting negative threads that have run their course.

To All Members:

I was never a member of the other site. I don't know from personal experience what went on over there. But we have all suffered injustices in one form or another in our lives. But there are a lot of amazing dynamics we humans use to move forward in our lives. Sometimes we vent, sometimes we withdraw. But it is all part of the healing we need to go through. The important part is to keep moving forward. Go through the negative. Put it into perspective. And rise above it. It's how we learn and how we cope.

I know from experience just how hard this can be to do. Sometimes it's a daily process. For me, it has been since January 1997. The only words of comfort I can offer are the Serenity Prayer. It sustains me through my darkest hours. You have to draw upon the strength inside yourself, to heal yourself.

Sharon @--{--{----

The Serenity Prayer
God grant me the serenity
To accept the thing I cannot change
Courage to change the things I can
And wisdom to know the difference

[ Removed by member request. - Admin ]

Hello Dave and everyone.

I have been Disneyed a number of times and banned an additional 3 times. I am fed up. I am hurt. I vented privately. So get over it, marsh. At the urgings of several folks who have already moved over here, I just signed in after browsing a bit...my kind of place. I say let sleeping Dogs lie. ;=) Now if it would stop raining...

Welcome to DG, marshseed! You'll love it here. :)

Welcome Marsh! Glad to have you garden here. You're gonna love this place!

I too was hurt and angry when I was sent to Disney, for weeks I would lurk at the GW, lamenting that I could no longer participate in my gardening hobby.

Weeks later the hurt started to go away, the anger soon followed. I used to still lurk around the site.

It has now been months since I have bothered to go to the GW site.

I just love Dave's Garden and his laid back atitude of letting everyone who is hurt vent their feelings, eventually they will heal and get on with enjoying Dave's Garden.

Thank you Dave for helping the healing process, and for giving us a wonderful site.

Welcome Marsh! From the swamps! Lisa

This message was edited Wednesday, Apr 11th 5:53 PM

I have not (yet) been banned or "disneyed"... and am actually still classified as a member at "that other site"
And used to absolutely adore it. However, I've just lost interest. Its always the same stuff. DG is wonderful, and the members and dictators are much more involved, helpful, caring individuals. Ive said it before... its like family here!! Occasionally Ill go see whats going on at GW... but not much changes. DG is constantly diverse, lots of new, fun and exciting changes, and its member oriented. DG is unique and its numbers are proving that!!

As far as GW... and ill feelings, I applaud Dave for his professionalism and maturity in handling this situation in such an appropriate manner. It is helpful to vent... and lot of DG members can correlate with such feelings. Im happy that Dave allows the venting and support within proper means! Who knows, I may need that support some day. Thing is, I dont think Id be upset. Theres always candy in other candy stores. If you know what I mean.

And Im delighted with this one!!

Ok, i have ended up on the disney site twice in the last couple of weeks, but only as long as it took to hit the back button, how long is a normal trip to disney, then, but what got me, i was i think sent for the use of one word, but i have seen that word twice since in another thread.

Alan.

Hi all,

The latest! The American Rose Society decided to advertize on GardenWeb. Dr. Tommy Cairn, president of the ARS and a major lite in the gardening world, posted a message about a new ARS publication. Several people took the opportunity to suggest that an ARS ad on the GardenWeb was inappropriate due to Spike's moderation practices. Guess what?

Spike removed the thread, thus erasing his latest advertizer's first posting.

Real smart!

Da Kernel

Lol. I have nothing against Spike because he's never done anything to me. But he's just soooo stupid! Gotta laugh.

Mike

Well,I have some things to say.That's no surprise to anyone who's met me in the chatroom ! lollollol
I wasn't disneyed,but I was a refugee - there's nothing wrong with that term as long as you get let in wherever you've gone to- and I've received a very warm welcome!I don't know what trollish means,I hope I haven't been it.It's dave's site,he has the right to put in and take out what he wants,if you disagree with something he's done then at least you can talk to him about it.I found spike too similar to Big Brother,some characterless hand swiping things away from on high.
I think one of the reasons that gw gets discussed here is because you can - it's open here,you won't get disneyed for it and you don't feel that you have to watch what you say in case.
So there ! :-) lol

It's one thing to vent but it's another to denigrate another human being. That seems to happen a lot here too. It's what many accuse Spike of doing and then they turn right around and do it here to a seemingly appreciative audience. Unfortunately, that same behaviour once tolerated just spreads. It's a lot harder to create Eden than it is Hell.

What I most enjoyed about DG when I got here was that the posters seemed to value the difference in others opinions even as they debated them. I am seeing that erode as many posts become very personal in nature. It's one thing to post to let people know of personal catastrophes. When somebody has been a major contributor to various forums, their disappearance is disturbing. It's another matter entirely to elicit comments about a person who isn't even a member here and can't defend themselves (and I'm not even referring to Spike at this point.)

On the positive side, the benefits of being able to discuss plants with people who are truly experts in their fields who welcome a newbie's enthusiasm are priceless. I see many forms of generosity everyday here.

Thanks for letting me rant and get that off my chest,
Sheila

Hope you enjoy this note of love and caring......























Moments in Life


There are moments in life when you miss someone
so much that you just want to pick them from
your dreams and hug them for real!


When the door of happiness closes, another opens;
but often times we look so long at the
closed door that we don't see the one,
which has been opened for us.


Don't go for looks; they can deceive.
Don't go for wealth; even that fades away.
Go for someone who makes you smile,
because it takes only a smile to
! make a dark day seem bright.
Find the one that makes your heart smile.


Dream what you want to dream;
go where you want to go;
be what you want to be,
because you have only one life
and one chance to do all the things
you want to do.


May you have enough happiness to make you sweet,
enough trials to make you strong,
enough sorrow to keep you human and
enough hope to make you happy.




The happiest of people don't necessarily
have the best of everything;
they just make the most of
everything that comes along their way.


The brightest future will always
be based on a forgotten past;
you can't go forward in life until
you let go of your past failures and heartaches.


When you were born, you were crying
and everyone around you was smiling.
Live your life so at the end,
you're the one who is smiling and everyone
around you is crying.

I'm posting this
to those who have touched my life in one way or another;
to those who have made me smile when I really needed it;
to those who make me see the
brighter side of things when I am really down;
to those whose friendships I appreciate;
to those who are so meaningful in my life.


Don't count the years-count the memories...........

Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take;
but by the moments that take our breath away!

Thanks coco, I enjoyed your 'moments' very much. As a newby here I find the comments about the "other place" disconcerting, perhaps not counterproductive, but still disconcerting. Free discussion is paramount, provided it is contained within the parameters set by DG. I thoroughly enjoy DG for all the great information on gardening and the caring so many of you exhibit for one another in some of life's daily turmoils. Getting over being 'rejected' isn't fun or easy,but please use as much restraint,courtesy and forgiving as you can.

I do like all the different discussions here at DG. And the people are great. I've met many wonderful people over at "the other site" as well.
This topic keeps coming up because people keep getting sent to Disney over there. As long as that keeps happening then I think we will still see it over here. But then I never would have known about this place had I not been sent to Disney! Eventually, we all get over it, each person has a different time period where they get tired of discussing it so it will die down on its own - until the next time....

I know it did me a lot of good to vent and get that web site off my chest. Now I'm done and feel very much at home. I sure an glad folks listened and helped talk me through it. I sure am glad I have a new home. LOL Thanks, Jody

What is this site's mission statement? It begins with, "To nurture and support, in a Christ-like attitude..."

I respectfully disagree with you, Terry, that venting should be allowed and is a natural part of healing. Perhaps it is a part of healing, but allowing it to flow freely on this site goes against it's mission, in my opinion. Yes, Christ was gentle, compassionate and kind, but He was also self-controlled.

Jesus would not come to this site and slam someone else or their site. Regardless of what someone does, none of us has the right to talk badly about another person. What I have read in this thread and others like it borders on gossip and that's not appropriate or effective.

If you want to get something off your chest, write it in a letter and tear it up or share your frustrations with friend or family member without mentioning names/specifics.

It simply doesn't belong here.

I guess I'll have to disagree with the last statement. I think it's fine to vent and know that others have experienced the same thing. Gossip? Perhaps, but more like feelings and also facts. One of the best things about DG is that we can discuss things like this! I don't know this Spike personally but I can certainly say I don't like his/her behavior. Besides it doesn't seem so bad when you can joke about it. I have MY Mickey Mouse ears!

Carla, my message that starts this thread was written exactly three years ago, when I had been a member of this site about a month. Three years later, the same issue still periodically surfaces, as it has now. (The only reason this thread was resurrected was because I referred to it in another post where I was trying to pour some oil on troubled waters.)

Please bear in mind at the time I wrote the above post, I wasn't an administrator, but simply another member trying to help bridge the gap between those who had "been there, done that (and got the ears to prove it)" and those who suddenly found themselves ousted from a site they had called their gardening home.

Everyone handles frustration differently - it would be great if we all handled it perfectly, but we don't. I think what gets a lot of people riled up is that they tried addressing the issue diplomatically and directly with the person with whom they had a disagreement, and they weren't given the courtesy of a reply, or the reply was rude and cruel. Should one simply walk away and shrug it off when that happens? Probably - but most of us haven't reached that level of self-control.

If you read Dave's followup to my original post, we are still doing what he explained back then: when a thread goes too far astray, it is removed.

You're free to disagree, but I'll stand by my post in its entirety: my intent then (and now) was to let people know that they've found a place where they can sort out their feelings and hopefully we can help them quickly move on from a rough patch in their life's road.

I guess I just can't imagine getting so riled up over something that matters so little when compared with eternity. Life's too short as it is. That energy would be better focused on something useful.

I don't re-live unpleasant moments. There's no point to it. It's a waste of time. Write it off as a life experience and be done with it.

You and Dave handle things differently than I would which is probably good (as I wouldn't want that responsibility). I understand why you feel the way you do and I believe the majority of the folks on this site would agree with you. Count on me to be the lone dissenter. :)