Your Neck of the Woods Chat- Winter Solstice 2012

Farmer Style parody of Gangnam Style, by the Peterson Brothers. Take a look-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LX153eYcVrY

If you don't know that song try
Farming and I Know It by the same boys
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48H7zOQrX3U



This message was edited Jan 5, 2013 7:17 PM

Love the winter sweet!!! It is such a great shrub.

Great news about the addition to your family Jan!

I am getting really interested in the Wintersweet that you guys are raving about. Shrubs are among my favorite things in the garden.

Just Googled Wintersweet. Not good for zone 6a.

I think you would be surprised. You aren't that much further from me or Gita. I forget who said it but I never believe any of the hardiness until I have personally given it three attempts. You could always try a few seeds, although be warned it is not a fast growing plant. It does smell delicious but I believe other than that it isqquite useless. I yield to Gita as she has a mature WS.

Terp--

For once--you are right on as well.....
It smells amazing when in bloom--and each bloom makes a seed pod the size of a small peanut-in-the-shell which
holds 2-5 seeds---which are chesnut brown and the size of small beans. Collecting them on a shrub the size of mine
is downright dangerous--as I have to teeter on a 5' ladder to get to them.
Planting it from seed--you will have to wait about 6-7 years before you will ever see it bloom. A long time....

Roses---I am not raving about the WS--as I have had it now for about 13 years.
Other than it blooming in late winter on totally bare stems--(it is starting now) and having an amazing fragrance when it does--
there is nothing else beautiful or exciting about this shrub to me. Also--I think it will do Ok in your zone 6a. I am in zone 7a.

Maybe I just have had it for too long...the "glow" is gone.
Like the Olympic torch--I am happy to pass it on to those who still are looking forward to this "glow"...

Gita

What other shrubs bloom right now in the MAG and exhibit such a wonderful fragrance?!?

The WS still glows bright for me! While others are bare I love a winter bloom and sweet smell.

Terp you have a blooming size wintersweet?
Mahonia bealii, oregon grape holly, will bloom very soon and has a nice lemony sweet smell. I guess it is not as strong as wintersweet but i have yet to get blooms on my wintersweet so i don't know. M. bealeii is borderline invasive here. The nicer Mahonia might bloom in winter, not sure. But yeah the list is very short.
Check into witch hazel. are they fragrant? Good couple things to investigate at an arboretum in january.

Witch hazel is supposed to be wonderfully fragrant, but apparently that can vary... maybe with the cultivar? I planted one right by the deck, hoping to enjoy sweet fragrance in late winter... I have never been able to smell one tiny bit of fragrance from its blooms.

I'm hoping for blooms from my new hellebore plants, but they may need another year to get established. I do have one clump of daffodils ('Rjinveld's Early Sensation') that has put up a dozen or more fat buds already, on 3 to 8 inch tall stems... that's the one that bloomed Jan 31 last year. I could probably cut a few and bring them inside to force the bloom.

Gita, I put your clivia into the cool basement to let it go dormant... and just after Thanksgiving, I saw it putting out a beautiful bloom... so it got a good drink and came upstairs for a couple of weeks, and now it's back in the basement. I think I should probably give you the yellow one, if you want it, because it's just not blooming or even growing much for me.

Real quick--getting ready to go to work...

Sally! Paul's WS would not be blooming--it is just a tiny new plant.
He knows how it smells bc he swung by my place on his way to NJ before the Holidays--
and my WS already had a couple blooms open. I pulled one off and he put it in his pocket to sniff.

Sally--how old is your WS now? Is it 5 years yet? I am using yours as a gauge of how long it would take to bloom.
I always heard it would be 7 years....I think when yours blooms--we should all get together to sniff and celebrate....

Jill, why is your yellow Clivia not growing? How old is it? got a picture?
The yellow ones are 3x as expensive as the orange ones. You should keep it.

OK! Gotta get going.....G.

You are so right Paul, that's the magic of the microclimate. What may be too cold, too shady, too sunny, too wind-whipped.... in one place, may be perfect a mere 10 feet away. (or, a house away). It doesn't work well on the hill? Move it down into the little valley. It isn't thriving close to the house? Move it farther out into the yard. It's not working in full sunlight? Move it nearer a tree line for some dappled shade. All those little variations make up numerous microclimates, and can make the difference between "I can't grow this 'hardy to zone 9' plant!" and "I CAN grow it here in my zone 7b!!".

I have heard that the flowers of the Winter Sweet can be used in teas, but I've not tried it. Maybe Gita has? She probably knows more about that than I do, I've only heard about it being done. YoooHooooo, Gitaaaaa!!! You drrrrrrrink zeee chimonanthus teeaaaa?


This message was edited Jan 6, 2013 8:20 AM

I think that I'll try the Winter Sweet when I figure out where to put it. I'd like the fragrance near the house, but I'm not sure that it would be attractive enough right up front. Lots of other places where I can place it. Gita, I have your Brazilian Plume Flower in an upstairs bedroom that is not heated above 55 unless we get guests up there. It is in a window with a little north east exposure and is doing fine so far!!

Thanks, Gita , mystery solved about terp-pauls WS.
Gita my WS is more like three or four years old.
Yes Teri I doubt it is a front house bush. It would fit in with a natural area where you don't expect so much prettiness. I plan to trim one long stem and will stick it in a pot in case it roots. Get you one year closer than seed.

Gita- my first encounter with a winter sweet was at the national arboretum on a full moon tour. Which led me to look for it on DG and ultimately getting another smell of yours mid December. I can't wait for the plant you gave me to get to be the size of yours.

Paul--and I mean this----

IF you could arrange for someone with a back hoe to come here and dig the whole thing up'
ball it up burlap for the trip back to your neck of the woods--I would gladly get rid of it.
I have seen it through the years and it really does not do much for me any more.
I know one thing--it will be loaded with seed pods this year--as it has so many blooms coming on it.

Then I could plant something prettier there--or just grow my Dr. Seuss in this small bed--
that would free up the bed it usually "colonizes" and I could plant some nicer flowers there.

The shrub I have is about 16 or 17 yrs old--or so. I got it from a customer when i was working
in the garden dept, which would have been from 1998-2003.
Don't know exactly how old it was when I first got it. It was in a 2 or 3 gal. pot
and seemed to have been pruned back--not too tall at all. kind of stubby....


Give it some thought????????????? Your dreams would come true....
Gita

Sally--

The man that gave me this shrub--Bernie--a customer here---told me that this shrub can only be
propagated by seed. There are other varieties of the WS that can be grown from cuttings.
However, Sally, what do you have to lose??? Go for it!

Bernie and I actually traded tit for tat--I gave him a start of a Tamarac tree (Larch)
which has NO business growing in this zone--it usually grows way up North--
but my friend had one and it always dropped the cones and they rooted.
She had one dug up and in a 2 gal pot--and she gave it to me.

Bernie was quite the horticulturist and wanted my Tamarac--and I got the WS in the trade.
Bernie was diagnosed with cancer 2 years later and died within 6 months.

I have always called my WS--"Bernie's Tree".....in his memory.
I am sure Bernie would not mind at all if it was moved to grow somewhere else....
Gita

Seriously considering it Gita!!!

Good! Keep considering it!

From what i can tell you--the roots, at least the surface roots, are fine, brownish, and spread out.
I cannot dig in that small bed without tangling up with the roots. They have a wonderful scent
when crunched--kind of anise-like.
What kind of a root system lays below--I have NO idea.

Perhaps you can inquire in Lg, Nurseries or Arboretums....or Google it.... .
Just for fun--I did some Googling for you.
********************************************************************************

This is from Garden Web. Lots of discussion on the different WS's by members.
I think mine is the Chimonanthus Praecox "luteus". Not sure....

Garden Web:
http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/fragrant/msg121432421098.html

Fromm "Hortipedia"
http://en.hortipedia.com/wiki/Chimonanthus_praecox

How to prune WS--
http://homeguides.sfgate.com/prune-chimonanthus-praecox-29875.html

from the below link--these blooms look the most like mine:

Quoted: Dog paw Lamei (Var.intermedius): also called dog teeth or red wintersweet plum,Gou Yingmei, Gou Yingmei. Leaf wolf, flowers small, perianth narrowly pointed yellow, outer, inner wheel purpura, light incense. Strong resistance. The original place of Qinling Mountains in Central China, Daba region and other regions, with Shaanxi and Hubei as the center of distribution.

Link to this very extensive information--Chinese Wikipedia:

http://www.wiki86.com/view/16139.htm

Have fun--you may want to copy some of this out.
This is what I Googled for: Wintersweet Shrub root system

I am sold. I don't think it'll be that hard. I'm not going to use a backhoe, just good old muscle and a shovel. Hahaha I look forward to it. We can work out the details on DG mail.

Yeah you can do it paul.

Photos please!

Paul! You think you can dig up and lift a 17 yrat old shrub by yourself?????????????????
Just think of all the dirt that will be clinging to it! At least bring a burly buddy!
Even just all by itself--(No soil) the shrub would weigh about 70-80lbs.
Add over 100lbs to that.....

I think it would not be so hard to ask someone HERE to mousy over and dig up a shrub with a backhoe.
I can ask around.....May cost a few bucks--BUT...please! Do not injure yourself!!!

You have to lift.drag it into a truck as well to get it home....Don't be a fool!

One option is to seriously cut back the Shrub by about 1/2. It will help anyway to compensate for the root loss.
Then it may be more manageable. All you will lose is bloom on the new sprouts for the next year.
For this--you may want to wait until it is done blooming and ready to go into its growth spurt and growing leaves.
Catch it in between the two--maybe around mid March--and then dig it up.

Give it some thought. I know you are excited at the thought of this and anxious to get it.
Patience is a virtue......G.

1--2006-April
2--Seeds ripening on shrub-2006-June
3--All the pods shelled that year. 2006-June. This may have been the first year it produced seeds.
4--here are the surface roots that are barely under the soil in this bed--2006-March.
5--Earliest shot I have--March--2005. early winter--as it is starting to bud.
This might be, approx. 3 or 4 years after I got this shrub from Bernie. SO! Assuming it was about 3 yrs. old at the time-
and then 3 more years to grow--this would make it about 7 or 8 years old. This is in 2005.
I do think that once it starts growing--it grows pretty fast.




This message was edited Jan 6, 2013 10:55 PM

Pruning it back pretty hard is probably a good idea regardless. Sometimes you don't know about a rootball until you start digging.. Pat & I dug up 3 azaleas she gave me, and they had way less than I'd have expected in the way of roots. Worst case, Paul starts digging and has to give up and come back with a pal or with power equipment. :-)

BTW, Pat -- I thought the summer heat had done in all 3 despite lots of watering, but one of them has leafed out well again, and another has possibilities. I kept watering, even once I thought they were gone, so maybe that helped. They're such pretty, well branched bushes... my fingers are crossed!

I agree - you never can tell how hard it will be to dig out a plant until you start digging. We once had a little tree we wanted to take out -- it must have once been a giant tree that was toppled and then came back, because the roots were unbelievable -- we never did get them out. On the other hand, sometimes shrubs that looks imposing turned out to be a snap to remove. You can't know for sure until you try. So I think it might not make sense to bother friends and rent backhoes until you see what you are up against.

This message was edited Jan 7, 2013 10:31 AM

Several years ago I had six well established shrubs I needed to relocate by the following Spring. That Fall I took a sharp bladed spade and 'root pruned' each of them in about a 2 - 3 foot diameter circle from the base down about 6 - 10 inches, thus forming the beginnings of a root ball. In several cases I also pried up/leveraged/ loosened the root ball so that for the most part, the shrub was overwintering sitting in a 'container' of soil it was growing in. Didn't do a lot of cutting back as plants were not in active growth . Did save most of the trimmings to try propagating them, using larger branches, etc than rec. but several took any way!

Not sure when the best time is for WS but methinks not when it is in flower.

PS, root pruning around the WS now will also give those perennials surrounding it less disturbance than as spring approaches as they will be busy all winter (such as it is these days) filling in what was lost.

Gita, if your bush is still blooming by Seed Swap time either you or Paul could bring some 'branches' to share! And maybe like forsythia or pussy willow they will root for us!

Paul I have faith in you.
Man vs Shrub. New reality show?

I love it!

I can't imagine it being that difficult. I have dug quite a few larger shrubs and the roots typically aren't that difficult. Trees, big or small are the problem and they arent worth transplanting.

Somebody jump here but I imagine the best time to transplant would be in the beginning of its growing season. Which would also be the ideal time to prune. I would probably want to cut it by half.

I hope I can beat it.

Judy and Sally--
You can be my experiments on rooting this WS from cuttings. Also Ben (whom you do not know)
in NJ--that I took two small WS plants and a bunch of cuttings in water. I said he could try to see if they will root???
We had it arranged that he would come to my sister's place when I got there and called him.
We have been D-mailing for more than a year--but I had never met him.
What a nice man! Totally different than I had imagined. Even brought me a Chinese coffee cake.

I am open to anyone disproving the advice I was given--that my WS is the kind that can ONLY
be propagated from seed. I was also told that there are other var. that can be rooted from cuttings.
Reading on the Ch. Wiki--and going by the pictures of different WS blooms--I am now fairly sure
that mine is called Chimonanthus Praecox "Gou Yin". Not "luteus" as I had thought.

This is the PF link to the one called "luteus". My pictures are in this link.
If you look at the very last one--a close-up of the bloom--my bloom has the purplish throat
which was in the picture called "Gou Ying".
http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/showimage/299438/

I have to go back and read some of those links I Googled and posted above to see,
especially the one labeled "Chinese Wikipedia". Man! That had pages and pages of info. om the WS.

Judy--
I can already see the tiniest tips of my Tahiti Daffs. showing around the WS shrub.
This week--it is supposed to be quite warm--so I am sure they will sprout up a bit more.
Getting the shovel out and digging them up and will try to plant them in a BIG pot, temporarily,
so as not to interrupt their spring emergence and blooms to be.
In doing this--I will, in essence, be also root-pruning the shrub in a circle around it. The bulbs are in a circle around the shrub.

My bush is already blooming--just partially. There are a lot more buds yet to open.
Good time to eye what stems or branched need to be cut back.

1 & 2--These close-ups are, probably, from 2007. See how much smaller the shrub is 6 years ago?
3--in mid December--Before all the leaves blew off
4--All bare now after the high winds we had recently
5--Taken Jan 5th--you can see many blooms starting to open.

Paul--
we cross-posted....

Yes--beginning of the growing season--BUT before the leaves start growing--will be the best time.
Well--at least you are getting to see a lot of pictures of YOUR shrub-to-be!
I just looked at it. There are two fresh, new sprouts that have come up from the very base.
They look so clean and smooth--compared to the older stems.
Shoud I allow these to continue and maybe cut odd one of the older stems???
On many shrubs (eg Lilacs) they recommend that a couple older stems be cut out and newer stems be
allowed to take their place.
Now I am not sure how to prune it. let me go out and take some pictures...

If you go back and look at he picture of the bloom on the Chinese Wiki link--and compare it to mine--
they are one and the same. Besides being called "Gou Ying"--it also had the name as "dog-eared...something..."

OK! Here are pictures--just 10 minutes old....may give you a better perspective of the job ahead....

1--One side of the base of this Shrub.
2--the opposite side of the base. here you can see 2 of the newer shoots that have come up from the base.
center and left. The one on the left is the biggest one. There is a 3rd one, a smaller one, to the right--not showing here.
3--Here is the bigger shoot--half way up the shrub
4--Here you can see the same shoot--a bit higher up.
5--The base of the shrub looking down to the center--sort of....

Definitely imposing!

We'll see nice grass again in about four months...ahhh

Picture perfect, Sally! And the lawn JUST mowed!

BTW--Do you have any Nandinas you want to dig up? Not for me--but my back yard neighbor.
His wife really, really wants one or two. He says you cannot buy them anywhere????
I think that is not true--In season--I think HD has them....

I dug away a small one from mine and put it in a pot. They are NOT easy to dig up.

Let me know. Thanks, Gita

I see nandina all over in landscape, can't imagine why they would not have any anywhere for sale. Unless they have since decided they are invasive for MD.
I don't have any at all.

I have seen it on tables at HD--lots of them. A lot on those 1gal. pots for $6.98.

Maybe my neighbors don't know what it is called to ask for it.

I will tell them--NANDINA! G.

I'm not sure Nandinas move readily... might have just been lack of skill on my part, but I dug 4 little ones from my MIL's yard before one "took" out back. And I don't think it has given me any seedlings, although it's possible thy just get pulled with the wild cherry weedlings. I've definitely seen them for sale at both nurseries & "big box" stores like HD, Lowe's, even Costco.

Nandina roots can get pretty extensive and tangled. Takes two plants to get fertile seeds. They are easy enough to grow from cuttings.

Most Nandina available is the small or dwarf forms. Nandina is often marketed in the Fall rather than Spring when the little bushes are 'showing color' . Otherwise they are less interesting to those buyers who haven't already seen more Nandinas in more places than they want to repeat in their own yards.

Ugh, I'm so terrible at plant ID that I just pulled out some crocus shoots while I was weeding!

I guess the good news is that the crocus from last year survived and will be blooming again in just a couple of months. :) I can't remember what variety was planted, but the leaves are variegated and very pretty.

Jill--

Nandina (Heavenly Baboo) IS a for of Bamboo and multiplies from underground runner roots.
That is why these plants form clumps and have roots that can go down 2'-3'.

Digging up an off-shoot is no small task, as you do need to get some of that root for it to thrive.
It is kind of like Wire Grass---you pull and pull on the runner until you find some roots attached to it.
Then you can just chop it off and plant it.
I potted up the one I dug up--with a runner root attached about 18" long.
I simply wound it in a circle and buried it in the pot. It is looking good and is rooted, i am sure.

I have had my Nandina, by my shed, for years now. It has not grown tall--but then it sits right next to my Maple.
I don't think they grow much taller than about 4'-5".
It does have nice red berries on it at this time and the foliage turns a nice bronze.
The blooms are whitish in the spring.

Can't say I have ever seen "seedlings"....but the ground is so "hostile" under it, I don't think any seeds would "take"...
It is mostly covered with Spearmint...

Went out and took some pics....

1-The whole Nandina by my shed. maybe 4' tall?
2--Berries and bronze leaves
3--more berries on a lower branch
4--My LR window and surrounding area--the "Jungle"....
5--The DR end with plants--Curly Spider in the middle--doing AWESOME!!!

Gita: Your plants look fabulous!