Money Matters - Part 13

Yet another horrible jobs report.

96K net new jobs. 368,000 net new labor force dropouts.

June jobs growth revised down from 64,000 to 45,000, and July revised down from 163,000 to 141,000.

That is one ugly, scary picture.

where are the wind turbines that are being built that created thousands of jobs located that the prez was talking about last night?

wow! is that a run on sentence or what???

We saw lots of wind turbines on our trip this summer and always wondered what happens when it's not windy. Many were not spinning.

No wind- no power.
Heard about wave power project in Oregon. Will be three years to up and running and will power 'about a thousand homes' Big WHip thats Nothin!

I drove through central Oregon this summer and was amazed by the number of windmills dotting the landscape. They are enormous. They were too far away for me to get a good perspective as far as actual size goes but I could see them from so far away that I knew they were huge. Hundreds of them, all spinning pretty slowly but given their size I think the fact that they were spinning at all meant it was probably generating a fair bit of energy.

Here is a picture of a hand drawn map of the village where my grandparents were born. Note the wind mills in the lower left , adjacent to the wheat fields. Grind grain or pump water for irrigation good old wind power! And since 1880's generate electricity!

I think that wind farms, etc are important steps in a diverse sustainable energy basis for this country. At least as important is that the manufacturing of the turbines and parts is being done here, retooling our manufacturing base and keeping jobs here. Jen, just googling 'wind turbines' shows a number of manufacturing sites across the country.

Sally, I heard that same report on public radio about the ocean wave electricity generating project in Oregon today and though it may seem small, that it will generate electricity mechanically without the use of hydrolics is so important as we all know that oil and water don't mix!



This message was edited Sep 7, 2012 7:07 PM

Modern windmills are incredibly enormous.

Coleup that is incredibly cool to have that map of yours.

I am all for new manufacturing jobs here working towards new energy sources- AS LONG AS the startup money comes from the rich bankers investment portfolios.

American lifestyles have changed ginormupendously in the last hundred years and we consume far more power than we used to.

Main problem has been for the gov to try to create a market that does not exist. The so-called green economy has to be born out of necessity, market-driven and privately supported.

In 1979, they installed the (then) world's largest windmill on Howard's Knob in Boone, NC, with blades scanning 200' tip to tip. The $6.2 million, ten-story, 350-ton, 2 MW was built by General Electric. It was dismantled in 1983 following complaints about the noise from residents. The windmill was also very expensive to operate. It was considered evidence that renewable energy was clumsy and unworkable. http://www.radford.edu/wkovarik/envhist/RenHist/4.Wind.html

I moved to Boone several months after it was installed, and always heard complaints from the locals of noise and TV interference.

By the way, a woman who is a long-time DG member (sugarweed) worked on that installation. What looks like the box for the controls for the windmill was the size of a house trailer.

In the early 1980s wind-generated electricity cost as much as 30 cents per kilowatt-hour. Now, state-of-the-art wind power plants at excellent sites are generating electricity at less than 5 cents/kWh. (American American Wind Energy Association). Costs are continuing to decline as more and larger plants are built and advanced technology is introduced.

darius- quote "Now, state-of-the-art wind power plants at excellent sites are generating electricity at less than 5 cents/kWh. (American American Wind Energy Association). Costs are continuing to decline as more and larger plants are built and advanced technology is introduced"
Halelujah, finally some good news on the Money Matters thread

There are many places where it is ideal. And they need to go to the vertical shaft type used in Europe. Less noise, fewer bird collisions and can be put where the big clumsy ones cannot go.

I had seen a show about that other type- so glad they are in use. Look much less deadly to birds too.
There is a ' Darrieus" wind turbine style too- (wikipedia) they must not have checked their spelling. LOL

"Main problem has been for the gov to try to create a market that does not exist. The so-called green economy has to be born out of necessity, market-driven and privately supported."

Let's try that with oil, shall we? It is a necessity, after all. Fossil fuel subsidies in the last 5 years have been $ 72 billion, in the same time, $1 billion went to solar.

—BP, Chevron, ConocoPhillips, ExxonMobil, and Royal Dutch Shell—these five oil companies combined made a record-high $137 billion in profits in 2011—up 75 percent from 2010—and have made more than $1 trillion in profits from 2001 through 2011. This exceeds the previous record of $136 billion in profits in 2008.

Source: the American Progressive Party

To dispel misconceptions:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/energysource/2012/04/25/the-surprising-reason-that-oil-subsidies-persist-even-liberals-love-them/

That WAS interesting. Thank you for posting it.

This is absolutely mind-boggling.



"According to figures released by the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS), only 58.3 percent of Americans over the age of 16 are currently employed. That's the lowest percentage in the past year—so things are getting worse, not better. But things haven't just gotten worse over the past 12 months; they've also gotten worse since the recession ostensibly ended and the recovery ostensibly began.

In fact, for an amazing 38 consecutive months, the percentage of Americans who are employed has been lower than the percentage who were employed during the recession. According to the BLS, the low-water mark for employment during the recession was 59.4 percent, while the high-water mark for employment during the "recovery" has been 59.3 percent. That's right: When it comes to the percentage of Americans who are employed, every month of the "recovery" has been worse than any month of the recession."

I am not really surprised by that number as (according to the US Census Bureau) as of July 2011, 13.3% of the US population is over 65 years old and another 23.7% are under 18. So, if my math is correct, 37% of the population is the majority of the 58.3 %. I realize that the numbers I have are a little different because the BLS is using 16 as the working age, however more people have turned 65 in the past 13 months - so maybe the comparison isn't too far off. During the Depression I could find that there were 6.7 million people over 65 as the "Baby Boom" hadn't happened yet. :) It is us Baby Boomers that are swelling the ranks of the jobless by retiring.

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/00000.html

I've always thought that and wondered if there were any stats regarding the percentage entering retirement. Anyone?

No way that is the driving force, Cat. First of all, we are talking about three years, not 10 or 15. This is a short-term crisis driven by the horrid economy, not the long-term demographic trend. Secondly, how many Boomers are ACTUALLY retiring at 65 now with all the uncertainty about their financial well being in retirement. Doubt it's very high.

Chicago teachers are the highest paid in the country. Over $70K avg salary alone - not counting benefits. Pay only 3% of their healthcare. Were offered 16% over four years in a city that is broke. They decided to strike instead. They want 30%. Only 56% graduation rate. Average FAMILY in Chicago makes $47K.

I have no words. Actually I do, but ....will censor myself.

gas here jumped $0.40 today

I believe our economic problems are the result of disregulation and credit gone wild. Both parties contributed to this. The other thing is the automization of whatever manufacturing there is, while we are shifting into the information era. Hopefully young people are getting enough skills for the new jobs. The US economy will depend upon immigration because we need workers with sufficient skill to take over the new jobs. My concern for the baby boomers is whether mutual funds will collapse once enough shares are taken out of the 401k plans by retirees. The last impression alone is causing some worry, because gold does not seem to be a safe alternative. Seems smart investors still have to go with the US economy once all is said and done.

The primary problem that caused this financial mess and deep recession was the housing bubble. Plenty of blame to go around but the MAIN causes were, a) the crazy push to get mortgages to people who would never pay. This started as a reaction to discrimination against WORTHY minorities, but became what we now know. b) Three acts by the government in the late 90's enabled problem a) to take off - 1) the reversal of the Glass - Steagall Act, which separated traditional banking from the riskier financial business. This was pushed by then Treasury Secy Robert Rubin. He of Goldman Sachs. 2) The decision in the 90's NOT to regulate derivatives, and, most important of all, 3) allowing Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to back up banks in their risky bundling and reselling of sub-prime mortgages. One can easily google to see who was behind all of these aspects.

Jim took out his 1st small loan in 2007. They called & called & called and wanted him to take out a Big loan and put the house up for collateral or what ever its called. If we did I would be homeless.

Simple words - I told Jim NO

Rosemary this is not a criticism, but why do we need immigration when the Current populace is unemployed?
How do we employ enough people when mechanization replaces so many manhours, and with superior precision and reliability in many cases?

Rose was probably referring to the projected demographic problem when the boomers do finally retire in large numbers. We definitely will need more (LEGAL) immigrants to fill jobs at some point.

Thanks, that makes sense.
Course, we won't retire till we drop dead the way things look ...

Good new on the Health front http://vitals.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/09/12/13828647-more-americans-got-health-insurance-in-2011-census-says.

Less uninsured people means lower health care costs for all of us because we end up paying for those without insurance anyway! Also the cost of health insurance was only up 4% this year - much smaller increase than in recent years.

Did not see the 4% figure. That sounds way low to me. Source??

It says most of the new insured are young adults. As a group, they will increase the cost to all of us, not decrease, because they are much less likely to have serious problems that go undetected until too late in the ER. That IS the case for older uninsured people. This trend will not continue either. As the article says, the dumb law encourages individuals and businesses NOT to get insurance because the tax is lower than the premium.

This message was edited Sep 13, 2012 8:48 AM

http://money.cnn.com/2012/09/11/pf/insurance/health-insurance-premiums/index.html

Geeze.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/ed14fc70-fc51-11e1-aef9-00144feabdc0.html#axzz26Ik3YPD4

At the moment- I wish the health insurance companies would get the he# ouuta the way. I 'feel ' like they just suck up way too much money to administer between patients and providers... grumble grumble. If they were fair about statistics, how come our clean colonoscopies don't earn us a discount? It's all 'pre existing (denilal) and no reward for certification of absence of disease.

'Clean colonoscopies'. Now there's a visual...

C'mon, I bet you've seen those souvenir pictures, if you're over fifty--- never imagined 'that' could be so clean.
8 ^/

'Only' 49!

You've got a treat coming to you let me tell you!!!
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/1050450/

I've seen that. Pretty funny. I plan to turn it into a party. I think the new iPhone has a colonoscopy app.

Yikes.

https://www.illinoispolicy.org/blog/blog.asp?articlesource=5042