After the swap 2

Thanks, SSG -- both for the mix and for its recipe. I mixed a larger amount of stuff recently for a bunch of semps I'm trying and did like Holly, pro mix plus sand plus extra perlite... but I agree, I like yours better. If I can get these semps going for a little rock garden border I have in mind, I'm going to have to mix a big batch of "gritty mix" to backfill behind the rocks for my planting area.

Jill..."finally" got the rest of your tomatoes in their own spot in the garden today...thanks to Mom!! She didn't note which was which though...sigh... hopefully when they yield, I'll be able to figure it out.

Also, Chantell's PB shrub cutting perked up and is alive and well. Can't wait to plant that somewhere =)

I got my tomatoes in just before we left for NC, about 2 weeks ago... they look puny compared to everybody else's around here! I really should have put in an early set and figured I had replacements if they froze. Ah, well... next year I'm getting out those WOWs and planting on April Fool's Day, and we'll see who is a fool then. You should be able to tell most of them apart, although the "Friendship" red noid and Wisconsin 55 are pretty similar.

Chantell, your PB toddler is doing fine here, too... even putting on some new growth, as is that Popcorn Cassia. Both were eagerly investigated by a visiting 4 year old this afternoon.

If anybody is "on the fence" about coming to the hypertufa party next Saturday, please post on the thread to let me know you're a "maybe" attendee... I want to be certain of having enough "stuff!"

All my tomatos from the swap (Jill, potato top and san marzano, wind;s cherry) are growing like crazy!

Because of my Tomato fungus problems last year--I did plant a couple of "Bonnie" Hybrids.
Two hybrids bought at HD (Parks Whoppers)--one Cherokee Purple--one Aunt ??? from Sally and one Sun Gold.

Jills Sweet banana peppers are doing great! I have 4 of them.
Also--4 Bush beans.

Also have 4 plantings (3-4 each) of Picking Cukes.

Al doing good--so far.

1--Here are my Tomatoes. The "Whoppers" are to the right. Then Ch. Purple.--and then Aunt??? from Sally.
2--Jill's sweet banana peppers
3--My Pickling Cukes. Hope they do better than last year--all of my veggies....

And--here are the Bush beans.

Looking great there, Gita!

Just so you're not surprised when they don't get bigger... the pepper variety is 'Sweet Pickles', and they're little conical peppers 2-3 inches long. I like them best when they're red-ripe, and the plants are so pretty with peppers at all stages -- orange, green, yellow and red! You can certainly pickle them whole if you're inclined (just make a slit in each side so the pickle juice gets inside), but they're also delicious cooked or fresh in salads. The seeds don't have that bitterness that seems common with peppers, so you can eat them out-of hand, seeds and all, just munch them right down to the stem.

Jill--
A couple of the Pepper plants already have small, yellow Peppers on them.

Just hoping all my organic soil amendments have helped.
Last year was pathetic! So far--so good!!!

SS: You mentioned that you got the turface at a farm supply store in Ellicott City, MD. What store was that? I bought Turface a few years ago and had a hard time finding it -- I think I finally got it at a sports store of some sort, but I can't find any notes as to where. (American Plant Food in Maryland also has pine bark fines -- it is in bags labeled as Soil Conditioner (so if you asked for pine bark fines you might get a blank look). I've never screened it.... though I have an old screen my mom built for screening compost (I've never bothered to do that either).

Holly, Tapla's "recipes" are in the 3 stickies at the top of the Container Gardening forum --http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/f/containers/all/. See, for example, Tapla's summary at the top of the 3rd thread: http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/p.php?pid=7522442. The thread is now on its third incarnation, and lots of variations have been suggested and posted. It is really eye-opening. Another thread on the same subject: http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/contain/msg0214580016564.html.

Apologies for my long post, but i was summarizing Tapla's postings for my own purposes, and thought you might find it helpful:

***
Here is his recipe from that first post (I think this is what he calls his 5:1:1 mix):

"My Basic Soils
5 parts pine bark fines [screened -- "use everything that passes through 3/8 mesh" -- but then he later wrote "nickle size pine bark is fine for the 5:1:1 mix - no problem - as long as there are lots of finer particles, too"]
1 part sphagnum peat (not reed or sedge peat please)
1-2 parts perlite
garden lime (or gypsum in some cases)
controlled release fertilizer (if preferred)
micro-nutrient powder, other continued source of micro-nutrients, or fertilizer with all nutrients - including minors

Big batch [of the Basic Soil]:
2-3 cu ft pine bark fines
5 gallons peat
5 gallons perlite
2 cups dolomitic (garden) lime (or gypsum in some cases)
2 cups CRF (if preferred)
1/2 cup micro-nutrient powder (or other source of the minors)

Small batch [of the Basic Soil]:
3 gallons pine bark
1/2 gallon peat
1/2 gallon perlite
4 tbsp lime (or gypsum in some cases)
1/4 cup CRF (if preferred)
micro-nutrient powder (or other source of the minors)

I have seen advice that some highly organic (practically speaking - almost all container soils are highly organic) container soils are productive for up to 5 years or more. I disagree and will explain why if there is interest. Even if you were to substitute fir bark for pine bark in this recipe (and this recipe will long outlast any peat based soil) you should only expect a maximum of two to three years life before a repot is in order. Usually perennials, including trees (they're perennials too) should be repotted more frequently to insure vigor closer to their genetic potential. If a soil is desired that will retain structure for long periods, we need to look more to inorganic components. Some examples are crushed granite, pea stone, coarse sand (see above - usually no smaller than ½ BB size in containers, please), Haydite, lava rock (pumice), Turface or Schultz soil conditioner, and others.

***
For long term (especially woody) plantings and houseplants, I use a soil that is extremely durable and structurally sound. The basic mix is equal parts of pine bark, Turface, and crushed granite.

[Note from Happy_Macomb: I think this is what he calls his "gritty mix" - I think this is what ssgardener followed. Tapla screens out dust.]

1 part uncomposted pine or fir bark [Note from Happy_Macomb: I think Tapla said fir bark last longer -- it is just hard to find. Orchid grower supply places have it. Ask for fir bark in 1/8-1/4" size. He also says the size only matters if you want to improve water retention: "The problem with large chunks isn't related directly to texture; rather, it's related to water retention. You can grow perfectly healthy plants in a bucket of those 'boulder' size marbles, the ones about as big as a Tootsie Pop sucker, if you want to stand over it and water every 20 minutes." On the other hand, he recommends screening out the "fines" -- the smaller pieces: "If you're screening the bark, save what passes through 1/4 but what doesn't pass through 1/8 for the gritty mix. The fines that pass through 1/8 can be added to the 5:1:1 mix, which is what I use for all my veggies and the pretty display containers I have scattered through the gardens & on the decks." If you want fir bark: "http://oakhillgardens.com/htm/supplies_growingmedia.htm. I buy the fine fir bark on the page I linked to for use in my bonsai soils/the gritty mix. I see the price just went up to $20 for 3 cu ft bag, prescreened 1/8-1/4". It's actually NW of CHI in Dundee. I was getting it for $15 if I bought 20 bags."]

1 part Turface [Note from Happy_Macomb: Elsewhere Tapla wrote: "Turface is calcined (fired at a high temperature) clay. The special clay is heated until the tiny particles fuse, so they are like hard little ceramic sponges. After screening, their large size allows water to flow through the particles, leaving large air pores between the particles, with water trapped INSIDE the particles for plants to use. The result is lots of aeration, no perched water, and good water retention." Tapla also wrote: "You can get Turface at Harrell's Inc. in Whitestown (800) 966-1987, Cisco in Indy (800) 888-2986, Tenbarge Seed Company in Haubstadt (812) 768-6157, John Deere Landscapes on Castlegate Dr. in Indy (317) 576-1888 ... that should be enough to get you on the right track. Ask for Turface MVP or Allsport."

1 part grower grit (crushed granite) or #2 cherrystone (quartzite) (of which RickCorey wrote: "I see from Google that "#2 traction grit" is called 3/16", or almost 5 mm. Pretty coarse! ... I've found crushed rock in semi-random sizes, and "#2 chicken grit - crushed granite". I would have said the #2 chicken grit was closer to 1/8" or 3 mm." And Tapla wrote, http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/p.php?pid=8049299: " I use #2 cherrystone, which tends to run a little larger than grower size in the Gran-I-Grit. I'd say it's about 3/32 - 3/16." So he really means the larger size. ]

1 Tbsp gypsum per gallon of soil

CRF (if desired) [CRF = controlled release fertilizer] [Tapla doesn't use them -- prefers a particular liquid fertilizer -- see below.]

Source of micro-nutrients or use a fertilizer that contains all essentials [he likes Foliage Pro, http://www.amazon.com/Dyna-Gro-Foliage-Pro-9-3-6-Fl/dp/B003SUT6VS, "The Foliage-Pro 9-3-6 has ALL 12 essential nutrients (including Ca & Mg, commonly missing from soluble fertilizers) plants get from the soil, in the right NPK % AND in a favorable ratio to each other (the same ratio in which plants actually USE the nutrients). It doesn't get any more foolproof than that. You can use the CRFs if you choose, but you pretty much give up control over your fertilizing program. I rarely use them. ... I fertilize with every watering in the winter, because I over-winter only about 100 plants indoors. In the summer with 300+ containers to attend to and no fertilizer injection system, it's not practical for me to fertilize at every watering, so I try to fertilize every week or two, depending on how robustly everything is growing. I pretty much use leaf color as my guide to when plants actually NEED fertilizer, but after a while, you get pretty good at anticipating your plants nutrient needs and supplying them before they show a need. Fortunately, you have a much wider margin for error in both fertilizing AND watering when using fast (draining) soils that allow you to flush the soil when you water. I think the 'recommended' dose on the 9-3-6 label is too light in most cases. I'm able to fertilize at 4-5 teaspoons in 2-1/2 gallons of water weekly when plants are growing well and it seems to be just right. If it's cool or hot, I'll either increase the interval between fertilizing or decrease the dose."]

I use 1/8 -1/4 tsp Epsom salts per gallon of fertilizer solution when I fertilize (check your fertilizer - if it is soluble, it is probable it does not contain Ca or Mg.

***
This is how he mixes his stuff:

"I dump a bag (2 cu ft) of bark and about 3-4 gallons each of peat & perlite on a tarp, along with the lime & anything else I might be adding. I then mix with the flat side of a garden rake (so I don't tear the tarp) before I pull on the corners of the corners of the tarp so the ingredients are all thoroughly folded/mixed together. If you don't count the 5 minutes it takes to screen the peat to break up any clumps & get the big sticks out, I can have a 3-4 cu ft batch made in 15 minutes. Clean-up is easy because everything stays on the tarp. I use a plastic dust pan to scoop the soil back into sturdy bags I keep (like 50 lb dog food bags) for that purpose, or scoop it back into the pine bark bags for future use.... I put the bark down first & moisten, then pour the peat on top, then the perlite and moisten the perlite. After it's folded together & sits for a few minutes, the hydrophobic tendency of the peat is eliminated as moisture from the bark & perlite diffuses into the peat particles."

He uses hardware cloth to screen.

Re the bark, he write: "Pine bark is appropriate because it's rich in a lipid called suberin, which is nature's waterproofing for plants. Most hardwood bark lacks the amount of suberin found in conifer bark. As a result, it breaks down much faster. This makes soils made from hardwood bark less structurally stable and makes nitrogen immobilization (tie-up) a significant issue. Because of the rapid decomposition, heat-build up is also a frequent issue when using materials that break down quickly (think 'hot compost pile'). Finally, there is usually a high pH spike associated with the use of hardwood bark/sapwood/heartwood at some stage of the composting process that causes many of the micronutrients to precipitate and become unavailable. For the gritty mix, uncomposted pine or fir bark is ideal. For the 5:1:1 mix, either partially (that's slightly) composted pine bark or uncomposted bark are suitable with the slightly composted getting the nod. What you see at 3, 6, and 9 in the picture below are all good for the 5:1:1 mix."

Tapla is an incredible DG resource!

This message was edited Jun 17, 2012 5:42 AM

HM, the store is called Farm and Home Services, and they're a local chain with stores in Howard, Montgomery and Carroll Co's: http://farmandhomeservice.com/

I've never been to the other branches, though.

John Deere stores usually carry Turface, but I've never been to one.

This seed supply store in Fulton also carries Turface: http://www.newsomseed.com/

If I'm remembering correctly, fir bark should be screened 1/4 to 1/8 inch, but pine bark can be screened slightly larger because of their shape. I've never seen fir bark anywhere around here.

I know Al uses the gritty mix for his houseplants, too, but this mix isn't very forgiving when you don't water on schedule. I'm not always good about watering houseplants, so I've used this mix almost exclusively for succulents. His 5/1/1 general mix seems to be much more forgiving when I forget to water.

Thanks Happy, I have seen people refer to Tapla's mixes and how good they are but I have never bothered to look them up.

Thanks for reposting all that, It's good information. I'm a believer in tapla!
You can almost make the mix by using five parts fine pine bark to two parts standard potting mix.
I bought the pricier Fafard mix once and that was my first experience with lovely chunky stuff.
There was one guy who posted, very unhappy at tapla's mix. THe guy had changed over many plants and lost many, possibly by not adjusting his care to account for the less moist mix.


My Aunt tomato, I called Aunt Jewel's. It cam from North Carolina, with a reputation of being some kind of German tomato.

Yes, I could see that with my infrequent watering style, I would probably not use it on most of my plants but I really like it for the succulents.

That's really helpful to know -- so the gritty mix should only be used for plants that don't need frequent watering.

And SS, thanks for info on Turface. I think I got it from a John Deere store... that sounds familiar.

I bet you could add moisture crystals without interfering with the drainage & aeration of the gritty mix...

But you know me, I add them to everything. LOL

The hens & chicks I got last fall that did well for me were actually in a little planter box under the "drip" of the faucet on the deck... put their pots partly down into the damp mix in the box, so they got good moisture but also really good drainage, and they just took off.

So my semp mix for my new little babies (not really chicks, any more, most of them... pullets, maybe?) is unorthodox... pro mix, extra perlite, sand, and moisture crystals! I mulched most of them with a quarter inch to half an inch of coarse sand, too, and so far so good. One has lost a ring of lowest leaves -- rot, maybe, we had a lot of rain last week -- but the centers still look lively

OK I 'm officially nuts.
I got bit by a potting bug and was out in the heat (in the shade) potting. I put coleup's red/ maroon leafed tropical hibiscus in cream colored pot with a ring of small mini winged begonias. THen I put coleups Black EE in a black pot, joined by two ornamental pepper plants (third generation from Jill, very dark leaves- Purple Flash?") with two good bunches of golden creeping Jenny from Ruby. I think it'll all be great! And the Mexican lilies got a new bigger pot too (from John)

coleup- the root section that broke off the EE is sprouting a bud!

boy did I get sweaty.

P U!!! I smell you from here. Heehee!! Just kidding. They sound beautiful! Yay for buds.

I still need to get that HUGE canna in a pot, I ran out of potting soil

ooh, I like the sound of that black/purple & gold pot!

If it's a small (almost a miniature) plant with dark leaves and little round peppers like purple gumballs, then it's 'Pretty Purple Pepper' -- only the one I grow seems smaller & darker than the one in PF. I did share some other ornamental peppers a few years back, though, so if the peppers aren't round, it's something else LOL

'Pretty Purple Pepper' near the end of the season... leaves are greener, peppers are ripening to red

I grew them a couple of years ago. Really pretty!

I still have 2 seedlings of the Pepper left--no home for them yet......:o(
I may just stick them in a planter and let them go. I know i am VERY late!

I also grew the black Ornamental Peppers last year. Did not like them as much
as the purple ones. The black ones grow pretty upright and bigger. No trailing...

Gita

Sally, I was out potting up a few things today, too. I have been slowly getting things arranged around the yard. I must say that I sure did get a lot of really wonderful plants at the swap. I re-potted the big Hardy Musa and the Red Abyssinian Bananas. The Gloriosa Lilies you gave me are really going to town they are up about a foot high now.

Gita, you can tuck those 'Sweet Pickles' peppers into a planter or anywhere there's a bit of space... they are fairly compact.

Coleup, I think I'm doing something wrong with one of the EE you gave me.

The green one that's planted with the root above the surface (is that an alocacia?) is doing fantastic and there are a lot of pups. Btw, what should I do with the pups? Just leave them in the pot?

The small one with the root below the surface -- the one with small, dark, shiny leaves -- hasn't done much. I have it in a lot of compost and I'm feeding it regularly, but it hasn't put on much growth at all. Should I be concerned? Or is this a dwarf? I have it in the same pot as a sun caladium and a sweet potato vine, which are both doing great. Btw, it's in full sun. Does this EE prefer part shade?

EE... shady for sure... they don't like the sun too much.. and keep it real wet

Oh my Alocasia all are sun lovers it is the caladiums that want shade.

what do i know????.. LOL

The small dark one with white veins?
I think Judy said shade for that one; sun for the other.
Mine still has the same three leaves but a new one is showing its tip now.

Yes you are right Sally the African Mask does like the shade. I have mine with my caladiums.

I wasn't sure how much sun to give the Black Taro (I think?) from Judy... I planted mine in a sunny bed, but it's sorta tucked behind a double row of amaryllises, so it gets some "shade" from them.

SS gardener -- back to Tapla's gritty mix -- You said you use a mesh drawer from the Container Store (that happens to have holes that are about 1/8 big). Would you please post a link to that? Is it sturdy enough to last?

Also -- do you measure the "parts" by volume or weight?

This message was edited Jun 23, 2012 10:30 AM

HM, the parts are by volume (when dry).

I'm pretty sure this is it:

http://www.containerstore.com/shop/elfa/components/elfaDrawersAccessories?productId=10009304&N=80348

The drawers come in a variety of sizes and are definitely sturdy. I can't tell without looking at it in person if this is the ELFA drawer with the 1/8(ish) inch holes.

Actually onewish you intuitively selected a tropical environment for these tropical plants! None of them grow out in the middle of a field, they grow in jungles! So there is never hours and hours of direct sun, but always shifting bright light and shadow interplay and rain and moisture and incredible profusion of greens. fragrance and exotic blooming surrounding. and almost eliminating any reference to horizontal/ vertical axis with multilayers of verdant exuberance in all directions.

If we know where a plant comes from we have so many clues as to how we can make it most comfortable in our environs.

SSgardener, the pups I keep in same pot til next spring when I may or may not pot up on their own. If the stem of the one you are calling the green one is green, then it is an alocacia 'Caladora'. if it has a very dark stem, then it is a colocasia escalante 'fontenessii' Black Stem. You also received a 'Freydek' from me ( which is a slower grower and as
Sallyg said has white lines on its leaves) and a baby hardy banana. My same size baby banana didn't make it. hope yours does.

All of these are great in containers, too. Just keep them well watered as they love the heat and humidity of mid atlantic summers (which are getting longer and hotter if last week was any indication)

Colocasia esculenta fontenisii
1 'Black Stem'
http://www.avantgardensne.com/catalog/product.cgi/4510/P1/de...
2 'Black Magic'
http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/31781/
http://www.avantgardensne.com/catalog/product.cgi/4121/P1/de...

alocasia
alocasia x 'calidora'
http://www.avantgardensne.com/catalog/product.cgi/0/4303/P1/...
http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/76290/

Freydek






This message was edited Jun 23, 2012 8:54 PM

See above post.

Some tips on growing colocasias
http://colocasiaplants.com/how-to-grow-colocasia-plants.html


This message was edited Jun 23, 2012 8:58 PM

thanks for the info & the link!

Judy, you gave me a green one, light stem, and its first leaf is HUGE -- Joyanna loves to tell people (in that way kids do when they know something important or interesting) that it is an Elephant's Ear plant. It's getting another leaf that's growing pretty rapidly. I sunk its pot on one of my "pocket ponds" (22" water garden pot), with the soil in the pot about equal with the surface of the water, give or take an inch. It seems pretty happy, and it's really a very sturdy leaf, twice the "substance" as the caladiums I've grown!

dingadingading! memory bell went off... I grew a 'Flourescent Purple' pepper a few years ago, saved some seeds to share around. I've seen a very successful planting (in an upscale strip mall) of these peppers with Tropicana and a dark-leafed canna whose name escapes me at the moment.

For me, pepper plants are something I tuck in here and there, adn they work OK as garden accents.... but they really do deserve to play a more prominent and deliberate role in my landscaping scheme.

Oh I noticed that EE during the garden tour yesterday. I was going to ask you what it was with that big leaf. Very pretty.

Thanks, ssgardener; there is a Container Store near me -- I'll check it out.

Judy, thank you so much for the info!

I did get a hardy baby from you, but it doesn't seem happy where it's planted. The cannas planted near it are doing well, so I'm not sure if I should move it, or if it's too late.

It looks like I also got the alocacia calidora from you. I can't wait to for it to get even bigger!

Sally, yes, it's an African mask! I was worried that it wasn't growing as fast as the Calidora, but it turns out it's supposed to stay small. I need to get it in the shade as soon as I feel better.

HM, I actually used a ruler to measure the holes at the Container Store. They're a helpful bunch over there. :) I found that a wide and deep drawer works best as a screen for this project.

Critter,

That's just the way I "imagine" Joyana to be! You have an alocasia'Calidora". It does get giant leaves of substance, and unlike most of its relatives, calidoras leaves tend to grow straight up and down. I had one last year that was like a wonderful fan backdrop/ screen almost 4 feet high plus container and many grow much larger!
The 'Black Stem" I gave you really loves wet feet, so if it is not happy hangin with the amaryllis you can plop it in another water feature. It spreads by runners at the surface as well as by 'pups' and mine are mostly old enough now to bloom (yellow spathe) so seeds, too. They do like to eat and I have usually applied osmacote 2tbs per pot/plant.

Holly,
I have more assorted EEs to share, say at the Fall Swap at Sallygs? Save some overwintering/greenhouse space and maybe next year you and Ric can win the ribbon for "First EE Up"while you are waiting for that elusive First Tomato!
My calidoras usually lived beneathe that mama banana I gave you and they miss her shelter. I'm sure she is incredibly happy to have some new soil and two parents to dote over her. Is Ric making plans to grill in those wind tattered leaves? I did once and it was good (fish).
I love the ensete (Red Absynian) bananas. Have you grown them before? Well worth raising for two or more years but the do die after they flower. Sigh.

If no one minds, I'd like to have a thread on 'tropicals' for the Mid Atlantic. I just got a new EE that has glossy black leaves. It called my name even though I can't remember right now what it is called! Ah, yes, colocasia 'Black Coral' It's supposed to have 'electric blue' veins!
http://www.plantdelights.com/Colocasia-esculenta-Black-Coral-PPAF-Black-Coral-Perennial-Elephant-Ear/productinfo/9580/

A "tropicals" thread sounds like fun! EEs, bananas, water lilies, plumerias... there are a lot of tropicals that we MAGpyes are growing!

Thanks for the names, now I can label them. (As folks noticed yesterday, I've got a real labeling fetish. Joyanna occasionally foils my attempts by moving the labels around to where she thinks they would look prettier, but she's getting better about that. LOL)

The 'Black Stem' is right on top of the soaker hose, and it looks pretty content. If it starts looking unhappy at all, I'll plop it into the bubbler bog.