How are your hardy Hibiscuses this year?

BC,

Congratulations, with the last picture it is a near certainty that you have a Lord Baltimore. With five critical markers on agreement, the question to be asked is what are the chances it is not Lord Baltimore and I can’t think of any. Usually it is Fireball which is sold as Lord Baltimore and not the other way around. Given the similarities between the two Hibiscus it was bound to happen.

The pollen from Lord Baltimore is viable and I have used it to pollinate Blue River II, which produced a light pink flower with a very faint reddish eye. You have to have a Hibiscus in your garden which is capable of pollinating Lord Baltimore, your mission this summer is to identify that Hibiscus. Q-Tips are a very effective way to transferring Hibiscus pollen and can be disposed of after a single use. If you can find the pollen parent, I would be interested in its identity.

Your second mission for this summer is to obtain clones of Lady Baltimore and Moy Grande. Both of these Hibiscus are sold as seeds which should be avoided at all costs. I grew Hibiscus from seeds produced by my Lady Baltimore and the results were terrible. If you find someone offering genuine Lord Baltimore seeds, you are dealing with a fool or a charlatan. Yes, I have Load Baltimore seeds but the pollen parent is Moy Grande.

Before I start on my usual rant about the evils of growing named Hibiscus cultivars from seeds, I should point out that today’s Hibiscus Lunar Series are F1 hybrids grown from inbreed parental lines, and are sold as seeds or plants. The F1 hybrids are useless for future breeding, you need the inbreed parental lines to produce the F1 hybrids and those are not being sold. I should also note that most of the named Hibiscus cultivars produced before 1950 have been lost to the hobby because they were F1 hybrids and were lost when the parental inbreed lines were lost. I really need to post the information I have on the Hibiscus Lunar Series and the early history of Hibiscus breeding.

Mike

That's great, BC. I am in the process of reclaiming my backyard from grass as much as I can. It's been there a loooong time and a lot of it is the cussed Bermuda.

Well, you just rant on, Mike, it's good information.

I printed your info, Mike, with my "missions". LOL I'll see what I can do this year. I have lots of new hibs. I think I killed my Moy Grande. I'll have to check on that one. I gave most of them away last year when I divided it and kept one in a pot but forgot about it. Maybe it's still fine. If so, I'll get it planted so I can use some pollen. I also have Blue River II and then a whole slew of new hybrids. I'll try dabbing some this year and see what happens. Thanks for inspiring me and for sharing your info.

BC,

If you had a Moy Grande last year, that could be your pollen source. Put the pot containing the Moy Grande in a few inches of water. These Hibiscus are call Swamp Rose Mallow for a reason. I had spectacular results last summer when I kept the feet of my Hibiscus wet. Don’t give up on your Moy Grande just yet.

I just checked my one year old Lord Baltimore (pod) x Moy Grande (pollen) hybrids and several are breaking dormancy. I am really looking forward to seeing that flower in bloom; it should be very RED. I have very limited space so I can’t start too many seedlings.

Mike

Hi Mike, I was very interested in your comments about Lord Baltimore vs Fireball as I purchased a Lord Baltimore that I had decided was actually Fireball. I found this page http://www.inspection.gc.ca/english/plaveg/pbrpov/cropreport/hib/app00006631e.shtml super helpful, it had these two pics which cemented my belief that my "Lord" was in fact an imposter ;)

My experiment with keeping a hardy hib as a houseplant doth bloom!

The bloom is just as lovely as when it was planted outside, but not as large, at least this first one isn't.

Yay! That is bee-oo-ti-ful!

Tombaak,

From one who made that error be very carful about keeping a hardy Hibiscus as a house plant. I cloned three Hibiscus Lord Baltimore from stem cuttings. I had them indoors through the winter of 2010-2011 and they bloomed beautifully. I put them out the next spring when it was safe and all three plants went dormant. One plant recovered and bloomed in late summer. I assumed that the other two plants were dead and went to though them out only to discover that the roots were green and very much alive. I kept the plants in pots which I planted to the rim of the pot and exposed them to the winter of 2011-2012. If the Hibiscus are still alive, they should be breaking dormancy in a week or two and will have been dormant for a year. I know of one Hibiscus grower who had a plant which he claimed was dormant for two years.

Hardy Hibiscus MUST go through a cold cycle. This is why you can’t grow Hardy Hibiscus in Sothern Florida. If my two sleepers awaken, I will post that information here. The third Hibiscus has already broken dormancy.

Mike

Tombaak,

Thank you for the side by side comparison of the three red Hibiscus and the link. I like the way the information was presented. I will have to do that with my Annie J. Hemming.

Mike

Hi Mike,

I found that the single petal comparison helped IMMENSELY. It had never occurred to me to pull a fresh flower apart!

The plant torture I performed to get my hibiscus to bloom inside was mostly to get it to break dormancy early so I could get some (cough) cuttings from it. I dug it up after it went dormant in the fall, put it in a container and left it in the cold till January when I brought the plant into the front room. In a few weeks when our frost danger is past I am going to plant it back outside and hope that it thinks it was just a very short winter and has no lasting ill effects.

I hope yours have survived!

Melissa

Melissa,

There is one other detail I should have mentioned. When I had my three Lord Baltimore clones in the house, they were under 24 hour light. When I put them outside the shorter amount of light may have triggered the entry into the state of dormancy. I also had a semi-tropical Hibiscus cardiophyllus, which didn’t exhibit this behavior and kept on growing. When you put your hardy Hibiscus outside, try to synchronize the day-night cycle first, it may help. Cold didn’t put my Lord Baltimore’s to sleep; it had to have been the day-night cycle. If I have this problem in the future, the backup refrigerator in the basement is going to become a temporary cold-house. What I don’t know is does the hardy Hibiscus have to have near freezing or freezing temperatures and for how long. The University of Florida has conducted studies on this problem but I don’t recall any papers which studied dormancy in hardy Hibiscus under controlled libratory conditions.

Mike

Hi Mike,

We are lucky enough to live in a house that has a large living room full of windows & 12' ceilings. It's a geodesic dome, the room is basically shaped like 1/3 of a pie, getting s, sw and w exposure. And because we live in the high desert, winters are very sunny so I don't use any supplemental light other than a regular overhead light in the room, which isn't on if no one is in there, unless one of the kids forgets to turn it off. It's completely chaotic and unscientific!

Do you have a large yard that you garden in? We've got an acre and a half, but are somewhat limited by our well output and the horrors of salt grass.

Melissa,

Sounds like your home is more like a greenhouse. Your Hibiscus should have no difficulty with the transition from the inside to the outside.

My problem is that I have too many ideas for breeding projects and not enough land to support the seedlings. On a 50x100 lot with a house and swimming pool space is at premium. To complicate matters, several of my Hibiscus closely resemble a medicinal herb which is popular in California so I am not allowed to plant those in the front yard. This is probably as good idea because it might become a race between the local hippies and local constabulary as to who gets to harvest my Hibiscus first in a case of mistaken identity. I made the following post last year about increasing hardy Hibiscus yields in reduced spaces by keeping their feet wet.

Creating an Artificial Marsh or Bog for Hardy Hibiscus
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/1220548/

I will be doing more wet-gardening this year. But I have to pick and choose the seedlings I will be growing.

Mike

Mike,

I got a great laugh from that!

The (probably) Fireball in my living room has been next to a giant rack of tomato seedlings for several weeks. We took the dogs for a walk one night and noticed how they looked back-lit from the street! I keep expecting a knock on the door from the local sheriff asking to take a look at our propagation room ;)

How long have you been hybridizing the hardy Hibs? Do you grow the tropicals as well?

I'll have to read your article, I was under the impression that Hardy Hibs were pretty drought tolerant. I'm not sure if you read my earlier posts but I happened upon them accidentally and am new to them. New, but now obsesses I should clarify.

When we bought our property, there were 2 large cottonwood trees in the back and that was it for established landscaping! The realtor told the previous owner (after the house hadn't sold in 2.5 years) that she should "plant a tree" so there was one Purple Robe Locust about 7' tall smack dab in the middle of the front yard. Other than that and a small lilac against the house it was salt grass, weeds and lots more salt grass. So the first couple of years worth of $ and sweat equity went into 70+ trees and a drip system to water them. After that we focused on the vegetable garden and built this
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/1247390/

Now that the necessities are out of the way it's time for some color and fun! We did put in a dozen or so lilacs, several dozen peonies (one of my all time favorites) and iris, but other than that & some spring bulbs, I'm just now getting around to the floral side of the yard.

Whoo-Hoo Clive!!

They came and they look great, better than great, for the price they look absolutely fantastic!!!

Here is a pic of the first one I opened.

'Jazzberry Jam'

It's a little too dry here for the hardies species to do really well, but I've had luck with Texas star and Rose of Sharon.
Two years ago I was weak and bought a Hibiscus moscheutos 'Crown Jewels' from Plant Delight Nursery. Hopefully I'll remember to water it enough to keep it going!
Barb

Melissa,

If by tropical’s you Hibiscus rosa-sinensis, the answer is no. I really don’t have the room in the house over the winter. Although I have to confess that I have been making room for semi-tropical Hibiscus with the objective of moving them outdoors if they can survive.

I started out breeding Hibiscus section Muenchhusia about eight years ago, which includes:

* Hibiscus coccineus
* Hibiscus dasycalyx
* Hibiscus grandiflorus
* Hibiscus laevis
* Hibiscus moscheutos

I am also playing with some semi-tropical Hibiscus from the southern United States and the southern tip of South Africa, which may or may not be going anywhere, depending of their cold tolerance and their ability to bloom and set seed during our summer. As part of my South African project, I am also looking at Hibiscus syriacus as a candidate for hybridization with Hibiscus calyphyllus from South Africa.

This year, I am also growing two cultivar of Kosteletzkya (Hibiscus) virginica which is a New Jersey native and once considered a Hibiscus. This Hibiscus relative, is highly salt tolerant and will grow in salt water. It has a chromosome count identical to the members of Hibiscus section Muenchhusia.

And finally there is my eternal quest for lost heirloom Hibiscus and the mythical North American yellow.

Mike

Thanks for posting, BB. Please continue to post pictures if you can. It would be great to see the progress of 'Crown Jewels'.

Good Morning Carole!

We'll now that we've hijacked your thread with talks of tropical Hibiscus, time to get back to the hardies! :)

I am thrilled to report that the first of mine to break dormancy (Plum Crazy) did so two days ago!!!
Do you have buds yet?

LOL. We all have a tendency to go OT sometimes, methinks. I know I've done it. Didn't mean to ... just a lot of excitement about the plants we're passionate about. :-D

No buds yet on the H. moscheutos but any time now. They usually begin blooming here in May. The H. syriacuses out front are setting buds. Yay! Won't be long now. :)

^_^

I am so jealous of your zone 7!!! In case I haven't mentioned it before ;)

Our last freeze here in zone 5 is usually around Mother's Day. I am just getting my first Iris blooms and the peonies have big buds, but won't be showing color for another couple of weeks. Lilacs look lovely though!

My NEW hardy hibs that came by mail order two weeks ago are looking great! No growth when I got them, but 2 ft of growth now. AND they're still sitting in water, unpotted. I have actually had them in the kitchen sink until last night when I put them in buckets. I had to repurpose my kitchen because I have a date coming today. Not everyone can handle a kitchen full of plants in the sinks and on the counters. (Please tell me I'm not the only one who does this!)

Hopefully life will settle down a bit and I can get my gardens cleaned up and start planting all my goodies. I'm so excited to see these hybrids blooming this year. I'm really eager to see Berrylicious and Peppermint Schnapps. I need to find a white TX Star, but I'll focus on that next year.

Maybe we can all come back later and post pics of this years blooms.

You're not the only one who does this. :-D)))

Yes, we definitely need pictures later on. I am so far behind in the yard already I can't believe it so I know how you feel. And it's raining today. Oh well.

I have 'Berrylicious' and 'Peppermint Schnapps' also. So we can compare those in different growing conditions.

Melissa's plants will be later than our zone 7, of course. My 'Luna Pink Swirl' is already about 3 ft. high. The 'Aphrodite' which was new last year is already setting buds. I'm excited.

Melissa, keep us posted on the progress of your plants as well. :)

And Beach_Barbie and anyone else who wants to post too. ^_^

The NOID grows on. I can't wait to see what it is. :-D)))

Can't wait to see the NoID bloom!!

Crown Jewels is about 2' tall right now. I can see teeny tiny buds deep in amongst the new leaves at the top. Yea!

Yay!

I have a case of the shingles and I can't tell you how excruciatingly painful it is. It just has to run its course so I will be back online in a bit.

Shingles?! Ouch, ouch, OUCH! I hope you are feeling better soon.

My hibs are coming along. They are anywhere from just breaking dormancy to 8" tall. I've been pretty focused on getting the veggie garden in and my worm bed built that I don't obsess too much about them. lol

Beach Barbie,

What is the little fish (?) faced pot in the back left of your pic? Very cute!

Isn't the fish pot cute? I have two more that are variations of it.
I have it under a leaky spigot to catch the water. I'll try to remember and take a picture of all three and post it.
Barb

Hi! I was reading your thread here and had a question. I was lucky enough to find Hardy Hibiscus 'Blushing Bride' seeds and had a few questions.

Have any of you started them from seed? How long does it take until they are blooming size? I of course know it will take some time, but I may just have to go by a pot in the meantime. Is now an ok time to sow the seeds?

There are two cultivars which have the name Hibiscus 'Blushing Bride'. One is the tropical Hibiscus rosa-sinensis and the other is a hardy Hibiscus syriacus (Hibiscus Rose of Sharon). If you have seeds of Hibiscus syriacus they should have a line of hairs along one edge of the seed which resembles a Mohawk Haircut as shown in the flowing USDA photograph.

Hibiscus syriacus L. (Rose of Sharon)
http://plants.usda.gov/java/profile?symbol=HISY&photoID=hisy_002_ahp.tif

The hardy Hibiscus 'Blushing Bride'.is a sterile triploid hybrid which is created by crossing a diploid with a tetraploid. Hibiscus syriacus can be an extremely invasive species in both the diploid and tetraploid chromosome configuration and triploidis are engineered to tame that tendency. The problem is that many triploid hybrids are not 100% sterile and if they do manage to set viable seeds, the seedlings could be any number of polyploidy configurations and will most likely not resemble the pod parent. If you are unlucky enough, some of the seedlings could be a highly virulent and fertile tetraploid, in which case the only thing you have going for you is your Zone 5a garden. For more information see the following:

Hibiscus syriacus, Garden history
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hibiscus_syriacus#Garden_history

Blushing Bride Rose Of Sharon
http://www.monrovia.com/plant-catalog/plants/1441/blushing-bride-rose-of-sharon.php

Where did you obtain your seeds? If you have a friend with Hibiscus 'Blushing Bride', the quickest way to obtain a new plant is to take a few cuttings, root them in water and then plant them in wet soil. Hibiscus syriacus is very easy to root. If you start the Hibiscus from seeds it is going to take two years before you see flowers with a high probability that they will not breed true. If you are adventures do give the seeds a try but be careful

Mike


This message was edited Jun 3, 2012 11:52 AM

I have the blushing bride rose of sharon--one of the few ROS's that I like. It's really beautiful. But I don't think I've ever seen seed pods on mine. Thank you for the rooting info. I'd like to have a couple more of them so I may try rooting some of the stems myself. I really need to move the one I have, but I'm afraid I would kill it if I do. It's rather large now. So I'll root some first and then attempt the move.

I've had success rooting RoS's while I don't have success with the tropicals.
Barb

I received the seeds in a trade. The package just says Hardy Hibiscus 'Blushing Bride'. No germination info, just that. Oh well guess I will be looking around for containers of it! Thanks for the info!

It bloomed!
And since, we're officially out of the drought, perhaps, with the drip irrogation system I ahve this one will last.
H. moscheutus 'Crown Jewels'.

Well, still one handed from Carpal Tunnel surgery, so typing is sloooooow!

Mine are getting bigger, but no buds yet. I'll post some pics soon :)

Here are several of mine from today.

Those are very pretty Sharon! Mine are so far behind yours, even though we are in the same state. I guess the couple of thousand feet of elevation and several hundred miles north makes a bit of climate difference ;)

What are the second two?

Second one is Tye Dye. Third one is Berrylicious.