MM,
Sorry I didn't respond. I've got my hands full. So far I've had 7 fish die. Old pond cleaned out too well. Put 2 gold butterfly and 1 hahaku in there and didn't have enought good bacteria in place, amonia levels shot up, they developed swim bladder infection. Got all the meds to treat that and they look like they will make it. Smallest pond has proven fatal and its joined to other pond with culvert.
7 fish died in that one. Thats the pond we put newly bought fish in (FIRST MISTAKE0. Today my grandsons were here so we removed all the rocks from those ponds and found some very small red worms and other critter that reminds me of a bed bug. Jeff also lost one fish he bought and I had put that one in smallest pond straight from show tank. Tomorrow I will pump out both newer ponds and start from scratch with salt, anti-parasite meds and also have on hand amonia drop med. I'm testing water 3 times a day. Fish biologist at Acquatic Eco. Sys. is working with me on this. He has been a great help. All small fish have had milky eyes, costia, and red spots under skin which resembles skin flukes. I have a hospital tank set up and if situation demands I'm going to do a salt dip for 90 seconds and immediately return to some fresh water. Good thing I have 3 small tubs I can utilize. I'm going to treat for parassitic and bacterial infections. Worse part is moving them lowers their immune system more. None of the goldfish (so far) have shown any signs of sickness. Boy am I getting an education and an expensive one. Can't run the UV while treating with good bacteria cause that would nul the process of establishing. He said only run a few hrs. during the day and add bacteria at night. I was out around the ponds with spotlight at midnight and a car stopped out front and thought we were being robbed. Was nice of them to ask. Now they know a nut lives on this road. NEVER thought I'd go thru this for a bunch of fish. I'm sure now I'm addicted. And we also added more aeration to all the ponds with new air stones and a small fountain Jeff put in today in smallest pond. He immediately treated his pond with antiparasite meds. He has been so helpful.
Got to hit the sack tomorrow will be another day of pond work after church. Wish me luck and knowledge.
Bonnie
Happy Ponds - the upside of Ponding #2
OH gosh Bonnie,
I just posted the questions you just answered, on the other forum page. The red worms are healthy for your pond. I get concerned when I DONT see them in my filters.
I have extra fish for you, so once you get the water balanced, we'll reload your pond.
It's been high 60 and 70's here so i started feeding my kois. Water is clear !!
I had been getting my beds ready for planting and found lots of earthworms so the kois had earthworm treats., they love them.
Happy ponding!!!
Belle
This message was edited Mar 18, 2012 6:55 PM
Hmm. I don't think mine are big enough to eat them. Well maybe the biggest one is anticipating they seem to come out of the winter bigger than they went in. Will have to try that.
So far have lost 14 fish. All the small ones and largest goldfish leaped out of sick tank yesterday and was too late when I found him even tho I was working near tanks.
Not sure those redworms were the good bloodworms. We measured one and it was 1/4". Info I looked up said they were about 1/16".
Pressure washer blew up yesterday so I poured bleach into pond and got in on hands and knees and scrubbed it with hand scrub brush. Rinsed it twice and will riinse it again today. Hopefully my pond pump will hold up cause it empties ponds fast.
Beautiful fountain was too hard to clean so I got Charlie and my Kubota to take it out and it will be placed up in flower bed #3 and just re-circulate. He is bldg. a fountain that will shoot up in the air and airate water much better and promote fish lung health. If necessary I will buy a large airater as those 2 ponds have no waterfall for airation.
Many lessons learned and a lot of physical work but hopefully I will get all straightened out. So far none of the large beautiful fish have died. Their bladder infection SEEMS to have been solved. I'm keeping a schedule of meds and bacteria written down as I'd never remember it all in a timely manner.
From what I have studied giving them a shot works much faster when fighting bacterial or parasitic infections. I can learn how to do it I'm sure.
Thank God all those rocks I removed from ponds are small. Got to go get Kubota and load up bucket and get them out of the way so we can work around ponds in peace.
I'm still optimistic about keeping fish even tho friends think I'm nuts. Heck I knew that years ago. I feel its still very rewarding.
Thanks MM I'll keep in touch. Bonnie
BTW SOMEONE HAS SENT ME A D-MAIL AND IT WON'T COME UP. SORRY I CAN'T REPLY.
Keep going Bonnie. Surely sounds like you are doing all the right stuff. What an effort. Hopefully you can keep the kill rate down to the 14. You lost the smaller ones and I always lost the big guys in the first few years. I am going to get Prazi into my pond the minute I can. Still hanging onto two of the seven koi I bought last year. At least I hope I have them. Won't know til the ice goes. but no corpses so that is a good sign.
Bonnie
so sorry to hear - let us know.
Forgot to change out water in tubs this morning. It was 7:30PM when I remembered. 3 more dead. I changed all water and put in more meds Amonia had gotton too high. Would be cheaper to just dig a hole and put all of them in it and wait until I get ponds started up right and try again.
So far (not bragging) haven't lost any of the large pretty ones in old pond which I pumped out completely and pressure washed everything before going to koi show. It has salt and med & amonia down in it so who knows maybe they will survive. Swim bladder problem seems to have gone for now. 3 years and no problems until I buy fish from different vendors at show and put right in pond. I sure have learned a lesson in more ways than one.
Oberon I sincerely hope you don't have problems with your fish.
My ratio for salt was 1 lb. per 100 gals. Don't need any more until water evaporates some.
Ratio for good bacteria is 1 quart per week 4 times with UV shut off.
Med is so many tbles. per 100 gals.
Amquel for amonia which was way too high only took 1 does to bring it down.
I am testing water twice a day, AM and PM. I am paranoid now about the amonia. Biologist told me shots work faster if fish have intestinal parasites or bacterial infections. I am going to learn how to give them shots. Two places either behind gills 1" or 1 1/2" from tail base. I'm going to freeze one of the corps and take it over to Acquatic Eco and biologist said he will show me. Local vet said I would have to bring fish to his office so I just laughed at him. I asked him if he had a rolling 200 gal. tank I could borrow. I think he got the message. He's a cat & dog vet primarily but says he can work on fish. I told him I needed a wet vet and I think he was insulsted. At that point I didn't care.
Will continue to keep trying. Geeze sounds like my own soap opera.
May all your fish stay well.
One more thing, they aren't eating well and thats a good thing. Just a little dab is all there cleaning up.
To be continued. Hope all your fish stay well.
Bonnie
Jeez, Bonnie. You are going to be the go to person for all things fish soon. I have a gallon of amquel I have never opened if you want it. I will send it down as inexpensively as I can. Darned stuff is expensive and I didn't need it. Just paniced one year and ordered everything in sight. I don't know if it has a shelf life but I think I bought it maybe 2009.
Bonnie....glad you are well on your way now. What a tremendous undertaking...There's usually a listing in the back of the koi magazine for "fish vets" in different areas of the city. I'll see if I can find the list for you.
Bonnie
I am not understanding why your ammonia levels are so high. I know if you add Microbelift that it will bring down the ammonia levels. I do know if your ammonia levels are out of wack - odds are the nitrates and nitrites are probably out of wack as well.
I do think it was an excellent idea to get the rocks/stones out of the bottom of the ponds. It is so much harder to keep the pond clean with the rock bottom and anaerobic bacterias will start with the gunk in the rocks. This could cause the higher ammonia levels.
How big is your holding tank for your sick fish and how many fish do you have in the sick tank? Also, have you looked at the bigger aerators? I would believe that oxygen levels would be an issue in ponds in the south.
One other thing - I know when you do give a salt bath, you are supposed to keep the fish in the bath until they fall over. I don't think the 90 seconds are enough. The salt will take care of 7 out of the 9 parasites.
Have you taken a look at your fish's gills and taken some scrapings/swabbings from your fish and put them under a microscope?
I hope things get better for you soon. I have been where you are before and it is so disheartening.
Carolyn,
Youre right about the oxygen levels in the south...that's really the only pond problem I've had in the past. My husband ran out and got more air pumps (I was gone for the weekend) but still lost several of my HUGE fish. I learned the hard way on that one! I worry about this being the La Nina weather year, and everyone's temps already being higher than normal. That usually means an overly active hurricane season. When the big ones went through Florida, several years ago, I didn't have power for a week...and I worry about my ponds now, should that happen again this summer. I need to buy another generator.
Hi Carolyn,
Amonia level was too high in old pond because I had just refilled it after a thorough cleaning and it had no good bacteria in it. One lesson learned.
I had 4 sick tanks set up. Two for very small fish, one for medium sized fish and one for large gold fish. Didn't count very small fish but they are mostly dead now. Still have 2 sick tanks operating. I'm getting exhausted from the whole procedure and very disheartened.
Biologist told me to forget the salt dip and use parasitic meds which can remain in tubs as long as I change water ea. day and re-add along with Amquel and very small amt. of salt. He said most people don't realize fish will turn white in dip but as soon as you return them to fresh water their color comes back. Don't really want to try that so I'll stick with every day water change and new meds. Babies get shook up even with water changing and I bucket it out slowly and put hose on soft to refil. Lost 3 more today. Thats why I'm down to just 2 sick tanks from 4.
Don't have a microscope and I wouldn't know what I was looking for anyhow. Think about 20 have croaked so far. If this happens again I'm going to dig a hole and just bury them all and start over fresh with pond pump out and treat water and test, test, test before I put a thing into pond. I've learned a hard lesson. I'm thankful old pond seems to have straightened out and large pretty fish are still living.
Dont have many in there but fish overload can cause amonia problems also whch leads to nitrite and then nitrate problems.
Biologist agreed with me that I shouldn't have bought fish from different vendors at show and brought them home and into ponds without quaranteening them first plus parasite dip just to be sure. Will never move my favorites again just to show them. My son bought 2 and he has lost them also. I won't even put a snail in there either without dipping it first. The largest sick tank is about 30 gals and it will be kept ready at all times. I have the perfect spot for it right near ponds and only takes minutes to fill with fresh water. I'll never be caught short withhout meds again.
You are right about aeration. My DH just built a fountain as we removed the pretty one and its going in one of my flower beds as just a re-cirlculating bird bath fountain. New one has 2 patterns 1 straight up with showers to the side or a 4 to 5 foot mushroom pattern which I feel is better and sure looks great. He's got to do some valve changes to allow more water to come out but once thats done and we try it out maybe I'll get brave enough to refill 2 latest built ponds. They are connected with a PVC culvert. My son Jeff bought me a smaller mushroom fountain for little pond so they can look alike.
When all is changed I will take some pics. Easier than trying to describe.
Oh another thing I learned--just because water is crystal clear doesn't mean its healthy. Wowee am I getting an education.
Carolyn I hope your pond start up goes fine.
Oberon thanks so much for your thoughtfullness. No sweat I have spent way over $200. and have gallon of Amquel which does its job with just a little bit. Ordered more good bacteria today in pouches pre measured to set up refills of 2 pumped out ponds. Have a full bottle of meds still to go if I need it. Bought 2 40 pd. bags of salt so well fixed there. Bought new test kit. I'm testing water parameters twice a day until all gets balanced. Glad its almost time for my social security to come in.
Got my own soap opera going here. I cried at first but now I'm over it. All will be well or all will become water gardens full of plants. LOL
Bonnie
Good point MM. We have a generator but another one wouldn't hurt. We went to Ga. to get ours cause there were no more in Fl. during that last hurricane scare.
Ah the challenges of nature.
Bonnie
Oh Bonnie - I am so sorry you are going through this - yes it is quite an experience as DH and I have been there as well. Fish overload will do it, but if you have the filtration, it shoud cover the fish overload. I know that tends to be a risky way of looking at things.
Don't know what you are willing to spend, but extra aeration at the bottom of your pond goes a long way. We put on the aeration in addtion to the pumps when the water temps are over 80 degrees - even though I am in the cooler zone, this does happen every summer. DH bought an aerator that is for not quite twice the size of the pond. The other thing that is nice is when we go away, we can turn off the main pumps and turn on the aerator so we don't burn any pumps, nor lose a significant amount of water if we are gone. Foster and Smith has a nice selection. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/pond-supplies/pond-aeration/ps/c/5163/9326
Wishing things were better -
my pump runs 24/7 all year round with extra aerator.It happened to me years ago when i had abundance of kois so I am very cautious.
Belle
I know I didn't have fish overload as they were all seperated into 3 ponds. I see now many factors caused these problems. Pumps run 24/7 year round. As of now only enough fish for 2 ponds but thats ok. New fountain Charlie built will cause more air but may buy aerator also.
Everything was fine until we brought in fish from show. Many new lessons learned. I'm just thankful I haven't lost my largest beautiful butterfly koi.
I appreciate all your suggestions from everyone especially the encouragement.
Bonnie
Filled up 2 connected ponds yesterday, put the goldfish in and ugly koi. Came home from church work today and pond was almost empty. Moved fish, pumped out pond, another 1" slit found and being patched now.
One day we'll get it straightened out. Meanwhile I am going to apply for a job in fish moving you know like moving households. LOL
Bonnie
Jeepers Bonnie, 'who' did you P.O???
Sheeeeeeeesh! What a day to day event Bonnie! It cracks me up that you keep saying "the ugly one" and yet you've moved him like 17 times so far! :D
Poor baby. He can't help it that he is ugly!
Is it one of the ones I have you en mass? I wasn't sure what they'd turn out to be.... :)
Not sure Mary if he's one of yours but at least he's still living. Filled pond up again this afternoon and it it hasn't all leaked out AGAIN tomorrow I'll put good bacteria in and get all the filtration turned on and then ugly will have to move back into large pond and also gold fish. I gotta hand it to them their tough.
Older fish in old pond must know I was trying to keep them alive cause now they come right to me along one side when I call to them and then they eat. Charlie says its cause they know they are going to be fed. Wish he hadn't burst my bubble.
Next weekend I'm going to upgrade them to Ultra Balance food. They really deserve a reward.
Charlie has surpsied me with patience considrering he's not really a fish person. We can only hope.
Bonnie
All ponds up and running. Put goldfish back into larger pond but Mr. Ugly and a few others didn't want to go so I said ok. stay where you are until I feel like wading and netting them.
Tomorrow son and I are going to fish farm to get new food for all. I had better not look at any new butterfly koi. New fish we got from there lived through it all. Took one to show and it only had swim bladder problem for a couple of days until salt & meds cured him. He is a pretty kahaku, red & white.
Hope the fish stay happy for a while as I have another job to look into. Either my intake screen is plugged up with mud and grass or our canal is too low on water to pump anymore. So goes my irrigation system. Please pray for rain for central Florida we need it very bad. Once before it went completely dry and thats 18 feet of water. Cows love to go in for a dip when its hot plus thats part of their drinking water. Fire danger is so hire our county has banned burning of any type. I'd hate to run our well dry but I watered from it before during drought and it held up. I use a lot of water on plants.
Seems what rain we do have is all over near the east coast on the beaches where they don't want it cause hurts bathing bus. We need it bad.
M Mary, have you had any rain?
Bonnie
Bonnie,
No rain here either. I thought about filling everything I can, while there's still a bit of water. There's a guy on craigslist that has jumbo food grade plastic barrels. They're fairly cheap, for $20, he'll add a spiggot to it. I think I may grab a few, put them on the side of the house, and fill them up. If we get too much of a drought going, I will have a little back up water. Supposedly, with this being the LaNina year (once every 4 years, after the LaNino year) we should have a higher than average level of summer storms, tropical storms, and hurricanes. I'd prefer no hurricanes, but they're saying the Gulf temp is already 6 degrees warmer than normal for this time of year, so I'm sure they're coming at some point.
Had back surgery yesterday and have a lot of pain, and I'm not usually a pain sissy, but this is kicking my behind, I must admit.
As soon as I'm up and running again, I want to really get cranking in the yard. I bought some separation pens for my koi...if I see them spawning, I want to separate the yellows, the blues, etc....and try to get some more focused off-spring. They pens are about 3 feet big, and float, so once the fish are done spawning, I can leave them where they are, with the eggs inside to hatch. It's my new theory for the year,lol, but right now I'm medicated, so I'm sure I'll come up with a billion of them before the day is through! :)
Got a little rain today but didn't last long enough.
Mary, I am sorry you had to have back surgery. Thats no fun and a delicate place to have surgery.
If there is anything I can do to help you just call me I will be glad to help out. Had 5 surgeries years ago and recovery is a bummer.
When you have time tell me where I can look up a pic of koi pens. I would think Acquatic Eco. would have something like that. I'll check their site as catalogue doesn't have everything they offer.
Didn't get over to fish farm Fri. so we are plananing next Tues. I'm almost completely out of koi food so need to go.
Take good care of yourself and don't push getting up and working in yard or you will set yourself back and experience more pain. I speak from experience.
Bonnie
http://www.ebay.com/itm/260515279964?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
See if you can cut and paste that link to see the koi pen. I got it off ebay (I like things shipped directly to my front porch)
I also get my bulk fish food off ebay, so I can adjust the percentage of protien during different parts of the season. I'm getting ready to order some more food, and will up the level to 38-45% to get the fish nice and healthy for spawning. It also keeps the water cleaner when you feed them with higher levels of protein (they digest most of it instead of pooping it out!) Figue out price per pound, and then see if you get a better deal from ebay, than store food.
My pain meds (which I'm really against taking) are keeping me comfy, but I'm really ready to get up and running...and Bonnie, you're a wise woman, lol, I'm pretty sure I WILL do something prematurely and regret it later. I wanted to work outside all day today. It's been my first day off in a looooong time, and everyone was gone, so I could have gotten so much done! I fed my fish, but was a bit wobbly, so decided not to venture too far out into the yard.
The short 30minutes of rain was wonderful.
Oh Mary - feel better soon. Back surgery is definitely a big deal. Just take care of yourself and don't do too much too soon.
Tell her Carolyn, its evident she's not listening to me.
Showed Charlie koi pen and you know what answer was-I can build that in about 15 mins. So I said fine build one for old pond. We have lots of PVC pipe & fittings from days of putting in irrigation and soft netting & cable ties in my workroom. Won't cost us anaything to try.
Wil check out koi food on E-Bay. Jeff can do the buying cause I don't have an acct. and better not start one.
PLEASE take it easy so that once you bounce back it will be without relapse.
Bonnie
I honestly will give myself a bit of time to heal...I'm not a spring chicken anymore, and things don't heal as quickly as they used to! (nor as completely!) I've had great success with the vendors on ebay. Always look at their feedback, and take into consideration the shipping cost on top of the bid price. There are 4 or so koi food vendors I use, and try (with shipping) to stick with under $4 per pound. Closer to $2.50 when it's lower protien. Of course the more you get, the better price per pound you get. I just keep it in a large plastic trash can with a lid.
I just ordered some caladiums too. Can't resist the color they offer! One of the Dave'sG people sells on ebay, and his bulbs are healthy and produce beautiful plants. He told me tonight the caladium festival will be the last weekend of August, and he'll have an open house at his shop. Yay! :)
I buy Blueridge fish food online. It's designed for both goldfish and koi. My fish love it and the price is very good.
The Ultra Balance I'm buying is $2. per pd. and 45% protein. Not sure the rate I'm going I'll even need it.
When I came home from church one of my big ones in old pond was very lethargic and wouldn't eat. Put up sick tank again with med. and salt. Within 3 hrs. he was covered with white cotton bacterial infection and died this afternoon. PLUS small pond is leaking someplace and is a foot law so can't run pump.
Thinking seriously of tearing them both out and just having oldest pond. OR buy a new larger liner and make it into just one pond. Got to think about it.
Mary take it easy and you'll heal faster.
Bonnie
Just a note. I saw a flash of my first goldfish of the season yesterday. He appears at the top of the rocks coming up from the caves below. Kind of like the doves that Noah sent out to see if they was dry land. He is looking to see if it is safe for the other fish to come out.
Oh, and here is how it looks now with a picture of the path from the pond back to the house.
In 2 1/2 months will look like this
This message was edited Apr 4, 2012 11:02 AM
Mary
Yay! I love the comparison with the dove Noah sent out from the Ark.
Joy - feel better soon. Hopefully you will be back to feeling like yourself and be able to sit out in your garden.
Oberon,
what is that gorgeous pink tree on left of pond?
Bonnie
Bonnie....any updates on your pond? I know it's frustrating when things happen all at the same time! Hoping you are getting to the root of it all(?) Would a long cheap liner, to go the length of your stream, maybe work to fix the leak?
Bonnie, it is a chokecherry tree. It really is lovely in full bloom although it dumps stems, leaves and seeds onto the garden below and I am picking baby chokecherries out of the yard all summer.