Starting FALL GARDEN 2011 in Zone 8

drthor-do you start your SC inside or directly in the garden about how long do they take to germinate?

LiseP did you soak your seeds and how long did they take to sprout? I may not be waiting long enough, but Ive never had a problem with dampening off. With anything Thank Goodness.

This message was edited Aug 30, 2011 4:42 PM

I did start my Swiss Chard both ways. A few days ago I just tried to seed some outside and they germinated in 3 days ... maybe the same indoors
I didn't soak the seed this time.
Just soak the seeds for 15 minutes.

I did not know to soak the seeds, 1lisac. I just plunked them into seed trays. They came up in just 3 or 4 days but I'm guessing it's just too hot for them in those little seed cells, even though I've been trying to keep them hydrated.
They're outside on the shady side of the house. Do you use fresh seed starter mix? I'm thinking I may just go buy some.

Nope, this time I just planted the seeds in the soil near my older Swiss Chard.
When I started my seeds inside I use Roots Organics in a 4" pot and I transplant out the all pot when the seedling is ready. I don't sterilize soil mix or use Peroxide.
I dunno much ... but my plants are growing fine all the time without a lot of fuss (apart when it will be time to baby my tomatoes ...)

I always soak large seeds force of habit, I guess. Swiss Chard are like beets and the "seeds" are really capsules that contain multiple seeds. So if I have more then one come up in a pot I carefully pluck it out and move it to an empty pot, so far so good. We were 113 on Sunday ( how hot were you guys?) I'm wondering if that might have messed up my germination, I fiilled 11 flats with 20 pots each in that heat I was tired of waiting for it to cool down.

I did notice a couple did sprout with out leaves just the stocks very weird. But I have noticed various bugs and such around the flats in search of water so maybe they could have eaten the leaves? I'm going to put something out tomorrow to keep the ants out of the flats.

Tonight I checked on the capsules I had soaking and many had sprouted so I put them on a wet paper towel in a plastic baggie I will sow them in a day or two BUT this time I'm going to keep track of which ones had sprouted before being sown and see if the others germinate at all. Kind of an experiment to keep things interesting. Lol

BTW I don't sterilize anything either.

Maybe not sterilized, but fresh soil out of the bag, I'm guessing? (drthor and maybe 1lisac too)? I don't know why I go the damping off this year, I didn't last year. But I didn't wash the trays or pots and used older soil, so I'm guessing that's it.

Enjoying the observations here, guys!

I don't have the $$ to buy brand new potting mix each season. I just dump my used starter mix into large bags and they end up somewhere in the garage 'til next time. So, at sowing time, I hedge my bets as best I can, against any stray fungal uglies, ants, and small buggies that might've taken shelter in a nice warm bag of potting mix.

The H2O2 provides some oxygen to the mix and gives the seeds a little boost -- a poor man's substitute for all the additives in the Roots Organic mix!

Linda

This message was edited Aug 31, 2011 9:41 AM

LiseP ~ "damping off" usually comes from watering from above. Sometimes (as in ground) that can't be avoided so GymGirl is correct. Add common hydrogen peroxide to the water you use to water the seedlings. http://www.using-hydrogen-peroxide.com/gardening-with-hydrogen-peroxide.html

Seedlings are also water sensitive in that they can't be allowed to dry while they have the tender new roots.

And thanks to this thread, I see that it is not unusual for the rainbow chard to melt in heat. Thought it was just chard in general.

GymGirl, I like to take the tender new growth and add it to fresh salads for a spikey taste. Not one to eat it cooked myself.

Thanks, Pod. Now that you've mentioned it, it was that "spikey" taste that I couldn't seem to get around!

I think ya'lls Swiss chard just may have suffered from your Texas drought combined with super duper high heat this year. I've grown Bright Lights (a.k.a. "Rainbow") all summer here and found if it is mulched and roots kept cool and damp it does just fine. In this pic is when I used a "no-work" garden (constant mulch/no tilling) and you can see the chard made it though our long summers. (Pic is dated September). The little corn patch next to it had long been harvested and browned out but the chard kept on keeping on.

Shoe

Thanks Shoe! So thats what its supposed to look like. hehe Everybody, Shoe has given me soo much help but all his expertise and patience (with me) cant stop this Dang Heat.

Thanks, podster and Linda, for your further comments on the damping off issue. Seems I have to re-learn things every couple of years, or whenever I get too sloppy or hurried or lazy and try to cut corners. I'm going to blame at least *a little* on the heat though, lol.

And Linda, I went ahead and planted all those $1 veggies (tomato, cuke, zucchini). I feel better just having something green out there! And I've got a round of green beans coming up now too, so things are looking up, even though I have to start some new seed trays.

Shoe, your chard is gorgeous. Maybe I need to show my little puny seedlings your photo for inspiration, I think.

LiseP I think re-learning or remembering is so important. I find I do the same thing, I think we all do. I try to write everything down but sometimes Im not sure if its going to work or I think Ill remember it so I dont bother to write it down. I always end up wishing I had written it down. Good Luck with your 1.00 plants. I do think your SC will do better when it cools down, I sure hope mine does. : )

Swiss Chard Update, for those of us that are Swiss Chard Challenged due to heat or whatever, I have success to report. I soaked a few seeds overnight and tried the paper towel/plastic bag method to germinate them. I put them in the bag last night and now have 100% germination. Not sure what variety, Ill have to check, they will be put in pots outside this evening. Im going to keep track of how many survive outside but things are definitely looking up.

Can you not keep just a few of your germinated seedlings inside, in the comfort of your A/C for a couple or three weeks? I think you'll be pleasantly surprised, 'cause they do transplant really easily...

Unfortunately, I will have 200+ seedlings so I dont have the space inside once they are potted up. Also, when I grow them outside they dont have to adjust to the hotter temps they are just good to go. I havent had a problem with them growing in the heat just germinating. I tweaked the way Calaliy suggested. For my cool crops Im going to try chilling them in moist sand in the fridge and direct sowing them I hope I have as good of as she did.

If drthor could get them to germinate in the ground I'm hoping I can get them going in the pots.

Oh, I see, 1Lisac.

I ended up with a gazillion this past January, so it must be working. No fuss at all when I see all those healthy seedlings!

Kale are a cool weather crop so they will do great in our TX fall/winter and spring. they will bolt at the beginning of May or earlier if it is hot.
My favorite is: KALE VATES CURLES

Today I started directly outside from seeds:
Swiss Chard
Arugula
Parsley
You can see on the Maria Thun's calendar that today and tomorrow is a LEAF day.

I transplanted outside LEAF crops:
Bok Choi
Kale
PaK Choi
I started those about a month ago. They hardened off on the back patio all last week and now they are in the garden.

My indoor seedlings are just doing great.
This is almost one month.

I will start to harden off all the inside vegetables this week too. The temperature in DFW is finally cooling down.
Planting dates for broccoli (which is a FLOWER crop):
Sunday 10 and Monday 11 September

All the other cole crops I am growing need to be transplanted outside on LEAF day (next September 12-13-14)
KALE
CAULIFLOWERS
BRUSSELS SPROUTS

Oh my yall have been buzy, I was so looking forward to starting a garden to get some tomatoes, but it now isn't going to happen, we are renting until we decided were we really want to end up at here in FL, and the lady on one side is a chemical spray happy person, so that means what ever I plant wouldn't be safe to eat, so now another year away from growing my own food.... 8 ~ (

So I'll live through yall's pics

Jan

I was trying to find out how many days before my sweet corn seeds should emerge when I tripped across this chart.

Since we've been talking about what we can plant now in Texas heat versus waiting a bit, I thought you'd all find this study interesting. First is a line graph that dramatically depicts how quick germination and good germination rate go hand in hand with the optimal temps. And then there is a chart that gives you pretty much the same thing but also gives you days to emergence in the face of different soil temps.

http://tomclothier.hort.net/page11.html

Pretty handy-dandy guide, I'm thinking!

I forgot to highlight a key sentence:

"For every species of seed, there is an optimal soil temperature for germination, and at that temperature, the maximum number of seeds will germinate and in less time than at any other temperature. "

LiseP I truly believe that chart.
The temperature this morning was 70F !!!! Finally.
Excellent germination for my seeds.

It does feel great out there. Off to sow Swiss Chard.
LisaP-That chart is a big help. Its interesting to me which plants have the same optimal germination temp. Many of the "cool" weather crops and "warm" weather plants have similiar optimal temps. I guess the concept that messes me up is that I have to keep them warm in the winter and cool in the summer, but similar temps in the end.

I rustled my mustard green seedlings this morning and they gave off a fragrance that just SCREAMED for some ham hocks or turkey necks!

The leaves are about 4-6", and they're just about ready for hardening off this week for plant out next weekend.

Smell...

This message was edited Sep 5, 2011 3:27 PM

here is the perfect day to plant your garlic:

SEPTEMBER 26 and 27 - during the new moon

Go to Sam's Club and buy the big $4 bag of garlic and plant the larger cloves. That's it !
Harvest in May !

Drthor, did you get your Roots mix at NHG? Did you get your seeds there too? I was thinking of planting parsley like you suggested in the Texas forum...can you remind me where you ordered from...Inquiring minds want to know! Thanks for starting this thread. I love kale but somehow haven't warmed up to Swiss Chard. My plant survived the summer and is starting to put out new leaves.

bananna18
I buy the Roots Organic at TX Hydrophonic, here: http://www.texashydroponics.com/shop/home.php
I like the Manana Dr. locations
I also bought my best lights there.
I buy my seeds from:
Baker Seeds: http://rareseeds.com/Shop/?gclid=CLXjkufHjKsCFVAi2godwW_ntg
Johnny's seeds: http://www.johnnyseeds.com/
Gourmet Seeds: http://www.gourmetseed.com/category/gourmet_seed.vegetable_seed/ (my favorite because: first they have lots of Italian varieties, second the packages are huge)

... and also NHG.

Buy 1lb (only $7.20) Parsley here: http://www.everwilde.com/store/Italian-Giant-Parsley-Seeds.html

I am a "seedholic"

so I seed! Thanks for all the info. Looks like you will have quite the bounty. Do you think there is still time to order and sow outside?

Jumping back to that chart on seed emergence vs temps for a minute, I was staring at it and thought of a few other things to mention. (Okay, I admit that this chart sort of fascinates me).

1. Seems like if I learn nothing else it is this:

*****75F is just about perfect temp for just about everything, and a range of 70-85F captures darn near everything at both peak germination rate AND shortest days to emergence, whether it's a warm season vegetable or a cool season vegetable. Like 1lisac said, it's sort of mind-blowing that both types all like the same "happy range."

And other notes:
2. Spinach is the notable exception, in that it likes it much cooler (like 50s), and celery is happy only at the low end of that "happy range" and a bit cooler.

3. Eggplant had the lowest germination rate - 60% even at optimal temp. Parsley was also a little spotty (I think 79% was as good as it ever got).

4. Cabbage seems to have an anomaly -- germination rate went from 90s, down to 0, and back up to 90s, all within a few degrees temp. I figure it must have been a typo (maybe was supposed to be 90%, not 0?), OR, they had some other problem with their test bed and forgot to water it or had some damping off or something. It's a mystery.

LiseP,
Great information, and I can attest to the ranges, based on my past two sowing seasons (tomatoes & bell peppers in January, and the broccoli, Brussels Sprouts, cabbage, and cauliflowers I started on August 6th.

What I have noticed most of all, is that they ALL seem to like to start off with relatively warm SOIL temps in the range you mentioned (except the spinach, of course). But, after that, the soil and the room temps better be what they want, or they do wonky things till you get it right!

To date, I have had almost 95% germination on everything, and again (Thank you, God!!!), not a single instance of damping off! I even had one wee, wee, weeeeeeeee seedling that's actually growing bigger!

I truly believe there's benefit to my taking the time to sterilize the recycled potting mix before I sow, as well as using the Hydrogen Peroxide in the1st two waterings, after the seedlings declare.

Here's this week's photo opp!m

Linda

Your seedlings look amazing, Linda! You seem to have figured things out beautifully. I'm caught in that limbo where it's been too hot outside and I have no lights inside. Everything I did was done outside in a shady spot -- still not sure whether my stuff was affected by damping off, or if the soil in those little cells was just too darned hot even in the shade or just what. I may have overcompensated for the heat by putting in too much water. I'll make sure to use the Hydrogen Peroxide at least, in subsequent attempts and hopefully, the weather will be kinder now.

Anyway, on with the show. I have almost no "green stuff" to show, but have been redoing my garden beds and also the cinder block holes -- added fresh soil/compost, also put in 1 tsp of "Soil Moist" -- those little water retention granules -- in the holes. I'm hoping to keep plants more consistently happy this time around because the holes tend to dry out.

I planted the holes with direct seeding yesterday, using fresh seed starter mix on the top inch of the holes. Today I'm direct seeding the beds and will spend the rest of my energy on starting some more seeds for transplants, and will eventually put those in pots and or fill in wherever my direct seeding didn't work.

I splurged on a seed order from an ebay vendor -- good prices, fast shipment. I just hope I can get the seeds to grow!